Marnie Spencer’s body has been ravaged by cancer for the past eleven years. But in a world where women are told that beauty is an indication of their worth, this mother of seven has found a different source of confidence: her knowledge that she is a beautiful spirit in the eyes of God. Can you guide us through the health problems you have encountered? I had been healthy all my life, and had seven successful, easy pregnancies. But in 2002, when I was 36 and my youngest child was ten months old, I had a stroke. I spent a day in the hospital, where specialists ran a battery of tests to find out why the stroke had happened, but they couldn’t find any reason. A year and a half later, in spring of 2004, I found a lump in my breast, which turned out to be cancer. My doctor told me that the lump had probably been there for years, and suggested that the tumor had likely caused the stroke. I had a lumpectomy, then a mastectomy, and then I began chemotherapy and radiation. After nearly two years, from 2004 to 2006, I seemed to be in remission and was able to stop the chemotherapy treatments. Almost immediately, I started to have some strange symptoms. I was thirsty all the time, and I started losing weight, which was nice for a while, but before long I had lost too much. I started zigzagging when I walked and was really tired all the time. One morning I got out of bed and was so exhausted I went back to bed an hour later. I basically slept for three weeks. I rarely got up. People kept waking me up, trying to talk to me, and I just kept falling back to sleep. My husband would try to feed me but I didn’t want anything. I would drink water but I wouldn’t do much else. After a couple of weeks, my husband Wes started to give me sweetened drinks, and after several days I was able to eat a little. As soon as I could get up Wes took me to the doctor. Clearly something was wrong, but no one knew what it was. Besides my family doctor, I saw an endocrinologist, a gynecologist, an oncologist,, and a chiropractor. Everyone ran tests – blood tests, x-rays, an MRI – but found no explanation for my symptoms. Marnie Spencer and Her Family in 2004, the Day Before She Started Her First Round of Chemotherapy During this time, my home teacher gave me a priesthood blessing in which he blessed me that I would be inspired to know which doctor could help me. After he left I found myself thinking “Dr. Wood! Dr. Wood. Dr. Wood, Dr. Wood, Dr. Wood.” I had never met Dr. Wood, but I remembered that a friend of mine had called me a couple of weeks earlier, and had mentioned his name. She said he was ear, nose, and throat doctor. An ENT was something I hadn’t considered, but I made an appointment to see him right away. Dr. Wood asked me some questions and pulled up my MRI films on his computer. Right away he saw a tumor on a facial nerve near my brain. Dr. Wood made an appointment for me with a doctor in Salt Lake, who told me that the tumor was cancerous and needed to be removed right away. That month, March 2008, he operated, removing the tumor through my right ear. This left me deaf in that ear and also paralyzed half of my face. Following the operation, I had to do brain radiation, which is a terrible, terrible thing. I did that for three weeks. In order to kill the tumor, they have to fry all of your brain cells, and when I was finished, I was not myself at all. I didn’t understand a lot of what people said to me. I couldn’t read well. A neighbor came over and said that my kids needed lunch money, and that she would take it to school if I could write the check. But I couldn’t remember how to write a check. I was just not myself. That was a scary experience, as I knew that I was not the person I used to be. They couldn’t tell me whether or not I would ever be normal again. I am still not quite where I used to be, but the brain is an amazing organ. It has mostly healed and rebuilt, but the experience really gave me compassion for those who have intellectual disabilities, who can’t understand what’s going on a lot of the time. The doctors also found that I had tumors in my ribs, so following radiation on my ribs, I went back into chemotherapy. The chemotherapy was making me sick and was reducing my immune system, making me very vulnerable to infection. Several months after the surgery to remove the tumor from my head, I went to my family doctor because I had a urinary tract infection which was caused by a catheter I had during the surgery. I expected to get some antibiotics, but the doctor tested me and sent me right to the hospital, where they immediately started me on an antibiotic IV. I felt okay, but an hour my doctor came in and said, “I need to be really honest with you. You’re very sick. The infection has spread into your blood and is moving throughout your body. There is a very good chance that you will not live through the night.” The doctor explained that he was going to call my husband, with my permission, and tell him what he had just told me. It happened to be a Monday, and after the doctor spoke to Wes, I got on the phone and told him to bring all the kids to the hospital so we could have Family Home Evening. My bishop got there first and said, “You know, you’ve lived a good life, you’ve had your children; when it’s your time to go, it’s time to go. The Lord must have work for you on the other side.” I knew that he was right, but I wasn’t ready to accept that my life was about to end. Wes arrived with the kids shortly afterward and he and our home teacher gave me a blessing. They didn’t say anything about me being cured, but blessed me that the Lord’s will would be done concerning my life. As soon as I got the blessing, I knew that I would be fine. My whole family of nine squeezed into that little room, and we had nice Family Home Evening. I felt the Spirit strongly as I bore my testimony to my children. We read from 3 Nephi about the Lord’s visit to the Nephites, and reminded the kids that the Lord can heal any affliction, and that He could heal me if that would be best for us. I gave everyone a hug and told them all I loved them before they left. Marnie Spencer and Her Youngest Daughter at a Youth Event Several Months Ago The doctor had told me that if my blood pressure fell below 80, they were going to put me in intensive care and try to save me, but that they probably wouldn’t be able to. At that point, my blood pressure was at about 91. I did not dare go to sleep. I felt fine, but I wouldn’t go to sleep because I was worried that if I did, I would never wake up again. So I just sat there, all night, and watched that blood pressure number. 89…88…86… It was just falling and falling…83…82…81…81…81….82….83 It never did go below 80. Having someone tell you that in perhaps only a few hours you will be gone really puts things into perspective. Because I didn’t go to sleep, I spent a lot of that night praying, and it was really one of the most spiritual nights of my life. I had experiences that I won’t share but they were really dear to me. I returned to the hospital twice more with infections. Last March I spent 16 days there when an ear infection became septic. I was underweight and malnourished, and needed to stay in the hospital to be fed through a tube. Dr. Wood operated on my ear and nose, and that left me with very impaired hearing in the left ear. So I’m deaf in my right ear, and have a hearing impairment in my left year. My oncologist decided that the chemotherapy program I was on was too harsh for me in my weakened condition, and changed my to a maintenance dose. I still visit the cancer clinic every week to receive cancer-fighting drugs through a port in my chest. Half of my face is still paralyzed, which makes me goofy looking. And I’m pretty much bald. The chemotherapy that I was taking has affected my eyesight, so I can’t see very well. I have lost my vision, my hearing, my breast, my energy, and my hair to cancer. But I have not lost myself. I have not lost my family. I have a great husband, really neat kids. I have really great friends. I have the gospel! I really have a great life, I do. I could hardly be more grateful for what I have. The things that aren’t so great in my life have taught me an awful lot. So I really can’t complain. I do sometimes, but I shouldn’t. My quality of life is much better now than it was on the strong chemo, but I will probably be on weekly maintenance drugs for the rest of my life. Because my cancer has spread from its original site, it is fourth stage, metastatic cancer, and considered incurable. I assume I’ll die of cancer, unless something else gets me first. After the surgery to remove the tumor in my head, doctors said that I had weeks or months left to live. That was two years ago. Several doctors have used the word “miracle” to describe the fact that I’m still here, given my prognosis. I’m just grateful for any time that I have. I’m not afraid to die, because I know it’s not a bad thing, but I don’t feel ready. I feel like there are things I need to do. I have seven children who are still fairly young. I don’t feel like I’m ready to give them up, to leave them without me. Still, if that’s what the Lord wants, I have seen enough to know that He is smarter than me, and when I want something that’s wrong, it doesn’t work out. When He wants something that looks wrong to me, He turns out to be right. I am doing everything I can to stay alive for my kids, but if it were best for them, or best for me, or best for anybody that I go, I guess I go. How have these health obstacles affected your seven children? My kids are good kids. My oldest son, Sam, was thirteen when I was first diagnosed with cancer. He has always been a good kid, but he was kind of selfish, self-absorbed, and a little worldly. He always worried about what other people thought of him. He tested the limits, so we worried about him a little bit. It was after I was diagnosed with cancer that he started to take life a little bit more seriously. He started to realize that people can die, you don’t know when, and you have to live your life right. There is no time for goofing around. He is on a mission now. He will be home in December and he has been an excellent missionary. He has done so many great things and has really been privileged to hold positions of leadership. He was talking like he wasn’t going to go on a mission when he was in his early teens. I don’t know if my cancer made a difference. It may have. We have a lot of fun as a family, but I think most of my kids are a little bit more responsible, a little more thoughtful, and a little more serious about life. If someone had come to me and said, “Your kids are looking like they are going to waver off the path a little, and you might lose some of them to Satan. Would you be willing to go through a big trial like cancer if it would bring them back?” I think almost any mother would be willing to go through anything to help their children. That is one thing for which I have always been grateful – that it was me. Not my husband, and not my children. If someone has to go through this, it’s better me than anybody else. It is impressive to see how you have been able to relay on your faith, but are there ever moments where you waver? There are still times when I think, “This isn’t fair! How come I have to do this? Others seem to happy and I’m stuck with this miserable body.” But these times are rare now. When I was six, I got lost and I prayed that Heavenly Father would send somebody, and He did. When I was in sixth grade, I prayed that He would switch me to another teacher in my school, and He did. When I was in high school, I prayed that my chemistry teacher would trade my lab partner with the boy that I had a crush on, and He did. When I was in high school, I didn’t have any tennis shoes, and I prayed for the exact shoes I wanted. Size 7, Nikes, dark blue with the light blue swish, and they showed up in my P.E. locker! I never knew who put them there. They were used, but they were exactly what I wanted. How can I ever doubt that He loves me? How can I ever doubt that He is looking out for me, if He will do the little things like that? Giving me the shoes I wanted, the teacher I wanted, the lab partner that I wanted. If He will give me those little things, how could He ignore me when I needed a big thing? And I just have to believe that if I don’t get the answer I want, it’s not because He can’t do it or He doesn’t care. It’s because He knows what’s better for me. My faith has not always been strong, and it still slips sometimes. It’s a growing process, and the trials that I’ve been through have helped me along. They have strengthened my faith. You have told us how cancer has ravaged your body. In a world where women are often taught that our beauty is an indication of our worth. What have these experiences taught you about your worth as a daughter of God? A couple of years ago, I had lost most of my hair, my face was half-paralyzed, I had patchy skin, and I had an eye infection that was making the area around my eye swollen and my eye puffy and runny. I looked awful. I was getting ready for a Church meeting and I was feeling really uncomfortable. I thought make-up might help, but it just made me look worse. I was alone in the house and I was just very discouraged with my appearance. I knelt to pray and just called out, “Father?” and I waited. Sometimes when I do that, I can hear Him say, “Yes, my daughter?” It’s just such a good feeling to know that He is there. I said “Father?” and the voice I heard this time instead said, “Yes, my princess.” It was such a contrast to how I felt. I felt because I was ugly, that I was not worth a lot at that moment. I said out loud, “Ha! I don’t look much like a princess.” The voice I heard after that said, “You will always look like a princess to me.” I started to cry (which didn’t do much for appearance, by the way, but I didn’t care anymore.) Marnie Spencer If the whole world could hear that message! He loves us and we look like royal Daughters of a King to Him. I’m not saying that beauty is not important. Beauty is a gift that can open doors for people. Esther, because of her looks, was able to save all of her people. Perhaps beauty is a gift like musical ability, or physical strength. But it’s not everything, like the world tells you it is. It’s just one little thing. If you don’t happen to have that one little thing, you are not any less valuable than anyone else. That’s the Lord’s message, not the world’s message. For me to hear that, I knew it didn’t really matter how I looked. The doctor who removed the tumor from my facial nerve told me that after a year my face would be moving again. It’s been three years and it hasn’t improved much. That’s been a disappointment, and is something I have prayed about. I told Heavenly Father that I thought I’d learned all I could from my strange appearance, and that it might be time to have my face healed. The thought that came to my mind was, “What makes you think it’s for you?” So I haven’t really pleaded again for that gift, because there may be others who need to see this. At one point, I had not been to the temple in a while. I finally had been feeling pretty good for a while and I felt like I could go to the temple. I prayed fervently before I left that I would be able to do everything I needed to do in the session and that I would be attentive and have a good session. As soon as I got into the session, I just messed up everything! I dropped my things while dressing. People had to keep coming to help me. Even when I was sicker I did better than that. I was a mess. There were very kind people sitting near me who helped me, and it wasn’t a big deal. I just wondered why I felt like I could go that day, that I would be fine, and that instead I was a mess. I sat in the Celestial Room for a few minutes, just soaking up that peace, and then I went downstairs to change. As I entered the locker room, a woman that I did not know grabbed me and hugged me. She started crying and said, “Thank you so much for coming to the temple today. I really needed to see you here.” I still don’t know why she needed that experience, but it shows us that the Lord can use us in little ways if we are willing to be His servants. He can find ways to use us no matter what our situation is. Health trials take an immense amount of courage to get through. Where do you find that strength? I never thought of myself to be a courageous person. I’ve usually been quite shy, even timid. I never would have used the word “courage” to describe myself. As I was diagnosed with cancer, people would say, “You are so brave.” I thought, “Brave? I have cancer and I’m scared! How can I be brave?” However, as I went through it, I realized that there is a different kind of courage. There is an everyday practical courage of facing what we have to face, doing what we have to do. The pioneers put one foot in front of the other, which might not have seemed courageous at the time, but when you look back at the journey they made, it was certainly courageous! Maybe someday we will see the same thing in our life. We may say we never felt courageous, but look what we did! I think most people, in some way or another, exhibit that kind of practical, simple courage every single day. What other lessons have you learned through these experiences? After the doctor’s appointment where I learned I had a very aggressive type of breast cancer, Wes and I went straight to the grocery store. There was a clearance bin and I was kind of digging through it with another woman. We were talking, and I made a little joke with the cashier, and I thought, “All these people are treating me so normally, like they can’t even tell that I’ve had this terrible news.” It occurred to me that maybe someone there had just gotten divorce papers, or had learned that morning that her child was addicted to drugs. There may have been many people there whose hearts were aching and yet they looked perfectly normal like I did. It really taught me to give people a little slack. You never know what people are going through. I learned just to treat people with a little extra kindness, just in case it is one of those days. We often look around and think we have all the trials, nobody else seems to have trials, and that’s just not true. We all may have different trials, but everybody has some, and I think we have what’s right for us. We have the trials we need to help us grow and to strengthen others. It’s easy to see it sometimes, but harder other times. I can remember after I found out that I had cancer the second time, doctors assured me I wouldn’t live long. Heavenly Father really helped me with a gift of clear sight at that point. I could see so clearly that in this life, what we think is hard is really not that hard. He sends us here, He tells us what to do, He helps us do it, and if we don’t do it, He allows us to repent and gives us another chance. It is a very merciful and loving plan of salvation. The plan of salvation is a plan of mercy, of happiness. It really is. We learn from our mistakes, we learn from our good choices, and we come out better most of the time. How has the role of your Heavenly Father evolved over the past ten years? During the worst of the chemotherapy treatments, I had an experience where in my mind I saw an old-fashioned scale. On one side, there were beautiful gold coins that dropped when there was good that came from the cancer. On the other side were these heavy chunks of wood, which represented the negative outcome of the trial. At first the negative side was much heavier, but I saw that eventually the scale would balance and tip toward the positive. I shared that experience with a friend, who then asked what the wood looked like. I explained it was almost like pieces of railroad tracks, but kind of rough and broken. She said, “Like pieces of the cross?” That thought hadn’t occurred to me before, but I thought that was interesting. I know that all of our trials, all of our burdens, our sins, our pains, our embarrassment, and shame is covered by our Savior because of that cross, because of what He did for us. The wood pieces are falling less frequently now, but the gold pieces are still coming. The other day a friend took me out to a buffet and I was stuffed afterwards. I made a comment that I didn’t think I could cook dinner that night and that I would never be hungry again. We talked about how when you’re really stuffed, you can never imagine being hungry. When you are really cold, you can’t think of being warm again. When you are in pain, you can’t imagine ever feeling good again. But you do, you can. Those kinds of things are fairly temporary. I was miserable for a while, and it didn’t last. I can hardly remember being that sick. It’s hard sometimes to have an eternal perspective, but when we do, life makes more sense. I couldn’t always see this as a blessing, but I’ve gotten to the point now where I can really see that the gold side of the scale is heavier than the wood side of the scale. I’ve been very blessed, and I’m happy. I have a great life. At A Glance Name: Marnie Spencer Location: Utah Age: 45 Marital status: Married 23 years Children: 7 children: 20, 17, 16, 14, 12, 11, 9 Occupation: Mom and free-lance writer Schools Attended: BYU Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing” Interview by Amy Doxey.

Swarupa Katuka was born and raised in India, joined the Church in 1988, and currently lives in New Delhi. In 1995, as the mother of two children, Swarupa decided to give her third child to family friends who couldn’t have any children of her own. In this interview, she shares an intimate look into her daily life, the state of the Church in India, and the relationship she has with her adopted daughter. Tell me about yourself and your family. I was born on May 10, 1964 in Rajahmundry, Andhra Pradesh, India, to my parents, Appa Rao and Siromani Kommu. I completed a double bachelor’s degree in Science and Education at the Womens College in Rajahmunry, and a Master’s degree in Science from Andhra University in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh. I currently teach Science to 11- through 15-year-olds in a government school. I have been teaching for 16 years. For fun, my hobbies include reading, cooking and stitching. My husband, Suvarna Kumar Katuka, is an immigration specialist and provides legal services to multinational corporations. We have one son, Joshua Kumar, age 19, who is currently serving a mission; and one daughter, Timnah, age 17. What is an average day like for you? Mornings start with prayers and then I make breakfast and prepare to go to school at 7:50 a.m. The school I teach at is very close to our house, within walking distance. I get home from school at 2:15 p.m., make lunch and usually rest for a while. Sometimes I accompany my daughter to her afternoon seminary class; otherwise I stay home and clean or wash clothes. In the evenings, our family of three has Family Home Evening and then we have dinner together. Then I prepare for the next day; I don’t usually go to bed until 11 p.m. or midnight. Before going to bed, I read my scriptures and write in my journal. Then I go to sleep. That’s my basic routine; some days we visit other members, and some days I teach seminary too. Swarupa Katuka How did you prepare your son to serve a mission? Joshua is serving in Chennai, India, more than 2,000 kilometers away. He writes us wonderful letters and he loves the mission. He is happy; he wanted to serve a mission from the beginning. I think the teachings at Church, and meeting missionaries who served in our area, influenced him. To prepare him to serve a mission, we usually had Family Home Evening and family scripture study when these kids were young. We attend church meetings 100% in our life time. My husband joined the Church in 1984, and served a mission in India from 1985-1987. In fact, he and his companions were the first Indian missionaries to serve in India. How did you first learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? I had been searching for a church to be baptized into; I knew that baptism was necessary for salvation. My husband’s family is LDS, and his sister was my friend long before I married him. She introduced me to the Church. I went to the Church a few times and felt good about it. I liked the Church organization and its systems. The LDS Church in our hometown was very small with few members, but I felt something and I joined right away without even telling my father. I read the Book of Mormon after a year; the first time I read it, I didn’t understand–I came to understand it slowly. Now I understand it fully with no doubts. The teachings and examples and stories are wonderful and good. We read as a family and my children love the gospel because of the Book of Mormon. It truly affects our lives. What is the Church like in India? We have two missions in India: India Bangalore and India New Delhi. There are three districts in the New Delhi mission. We belong to New Delhi India District; there are seven branches in our district with about 1,050 members in the district total. I belong to New Delhi 1st Branch. We have about 80 members attending regularly. We have regular activities outside of Sunday meetings, like a recent School of the Prophets conducted by our mission president, President Jackson. It was a wonderful meeting for all auxiliary leaders. I was really impressed and came to know better my responsibility as a member and as a leader. Swarupa Katuka As a Young Women President I accompanied Sister Dalton [current General Young Women President] to visit some families in New Delhi, India. I was also asked to give the opening prayer when President Hinckley visited India in 2005; 600 saints from all over India attended the meeting. For security reasons we were not able to shake his hand, but I sat on the dais where he was sitting. We felt that he was a chosen leader and God’s prophet. What has been your favorite calling? I have served in several auxiliaries like Primary, Relief Society and Young Women. I’ve liked all the callings, but I like Primary most, because I learned more in Primary. When I was baptized 20 years ago, the Church was very small in New Delhi and there were very few Indian members. We weren’t able to learn as much because there was no one to teach us. Now, serving in Primary helps me learn a lot with their songs and short stories; because of my limited English language skills, teaching in Primary is easier for me. Our branch conducts Sunday services in English; I use English and Hindi while teaching my lessons. In 1995, you gave your third child up for adoption. What led you to do this? My husband and I had had our second child in 1994 and felt that we were done having children. A short time later, we found out we were pregnant with our third child. A man named Brother Luther was a childhood friend of my husband’s; he is also a member of the Church and had been married for 13 years but he and his wife were unable to have children. I knew they had been trying to conceive but they were unsuccessful; when I found out I was pregnant, I felt in my heart that our baby should go to them but I didn’t tell anyone. I thought it was God’s will that I had become pregnant again and that maybe this child would be for them. I didn’t even tell my husband; it is not easy to give a child away. Swarupa Katuka Meanwhile, the Luthers were called to serve a couple’s mission in the India Bangalore mission. Our third child was born while they were serving. The Luthers called and asked us about the child; they said they had a dream that they were raising her. One day, after they returned home from their mission, the Luthers called my husband and brought up the subject of adoption–they wanted to adopt our baby. My husband told me not to give them our baby, but I prayed to Heavenly Father in my heart and together with my husband. After much prayer, we decided to give our child to them. They took her when she was eight months old. We don’t know why the Luthers approached us to adopt our baby, above all other families, but God knows. Maybe it was His will; I don’t know. We have never had any tension in our relationship with the Luthers since the adoption. We have good relations with them to this day. I’m happy we could provide them with such joy. The Luther Family with Their Adopted Daughter How did you cope with giving her up? It isn’t common in India to give babies up for adoption, but I felt like this was what I was supposed to do. The decision to let them adopt her was a great pain to me, but I felt that our friends were happy and blessed because of our choice. When we gave the Luthers our daughter, I could see they felt much happiness as they had never before felt in their life. I knew she would be in good hands. Today, she is very pretty and a smart young woman. We call and talk to her often. She is a very good girl. She knows she is our biological daughter, but I have told her she is on a mission. Her mission is to be part of the Luthers’ family, not ours, and provide them with happiness and joy. They are so happy with her in their lives. Knowing this is her mission, and that it is God’s will, comforts me. She is always in my thoughts and in my prayers. This was God’s intervention; I know the Luthers’ lives were blessed because of our daughter. At A Glance Name: Swarupa Katuka Location: New Delhi, India Age: 47 Marital status: Married on 19th Jan 1991 Children: One son, 19 years old & serving a mission; one daughter, 17 years old in highschool Occupation: Teacher Convert: 1st Jan 1988 Schools Attended: Govt .schools in our hometown Languages Spoken at Home: Telugu Favorite Hymn: “I Believe In Christ” Interview by Lyndsey Payzant Wells.

A popular speaker to LDS youth and women around the world, Barbara Barrington Jones shares the events and lessons of her life that have allowed her to touch so many in her 24 years of public speaking. After a career as a ballet dancer and twelve years in an abusive marriage, Barbara married a much older man with whom she found the Church. With her trademark faith, strength and wit, Barbara tells her remarkable story and shares her pearls of wisdom. Would you tell me your personal history? Let’s start with your interest in dancing. As a young girl, I wanted to be a ballerina. I was born and raised in the border town of El Paso, TX, and my mother’s heritage was Latin. There was something in me – a passion – that drove me to dance as a child. You wonder as the years go on and your mom has to take you to ballet lessons every day if this is really what you should be doing. Everyone was saying I should be going to college, but deep inside me there was a passion to dance. Many years later, when I’d had pain in my hips for years and went to a doctor yet again, the doctor put my xrays up and he said, “You were a ballerina, weren’t you?” I said, “How did you know that?” And he answered, “Because these hips show me you were predestined to dance.” And I burst into tears because it was a confirmation that it wasn’t just me who had forced my mom to take me to ballet all those years. It was Heavenly Father who had built my body in a way that I was predestined to become a dancer. I was driven in that direction. The discipline of dancing spilled over into everything I did. I had good grades, I became detailed oriented, I could memorize quickly. After my third hip surgery, my doctor asked me, “Would you do the whole thing over again?” And I said, “In a heartbeat! There’s nothing that could compare with dancing.” But of course there is a downside. I was raised a Catholic. I lived in a convent when I went to New York to dance at age sixteen. I went to Mass every single day. But the downside was that I became unhealthy in my eating. I was told, like many other dancers, that I had to lose weight if I wanted to be a professional and you can imagine what that does to a seventeen-year-old. So I quit eating. I could go three days without eating. I had to go home to Texas; I went into a depression. I thought my life was over. There are many famous dancers who end up abusing drugs because it’s a tough life, it’s a disciplined life. Barbara Jones Would you tell me how you got involved with your first husband? I married my boyfriend’s best friend. My boyfriend and I were going to get married on December 2nd, and it was canceled the week before which was very sad for me because I loved him very much. I instead married his best friend, John Barrington, and I lived through twelve years of an abusive marriage. Physically and emotionally. I was held at gunpoint three times. He dragged me off stage one night, into his car, during the middle of a performance of Sleeping Beauty. We sped off into the desert, he reached into the backseat and pulled out a sawed off shotgun. He put it on my knees and said, “I’ll blow your legs off so you can never dance again.” I’d lived in a convent, gone to mass every day, but I didn’t really know my Father in Heaven. But in that moment, when I saw my life passing in front of me, I reached out to my Father from the depths of my being and asked, “God, are you there?” I felt peace. It didn’t matter to me if John pulled the trigger or not. Was there a crisis of faith that accompanied that prayer? You’d been so devout. Did you ask, Why me? When you go away from home at a young age like I did, there is nobody there for you. But I always knew there was a God. And in those crisis situations I knew He was there. As I tell this story to youth at Especially For Youth (EFY) and such, they always ask me “Why didn’t you leave?” I say there’s something that happens to most women – when you’re stuck in a bad marriage – that makes you fearful. We don’t know how we’re going to make ends meet, take care of our children. We don’t know how we’ll work and have our own lives. We stay out of fear. I had a little boy, a year and a half old, when my husband put the shotgun on my knees. I had to think of him. When I came home from that dreadful night, sitting in my living room with my robe on, I said, “I don’t care who I have to pray to, I just want out of this.” I didn’t know what a Mormon was at that time, but I did know what “the powers of darkness” felt like. When I read about the strength of the powers of darkness after I joined the LDS church, I thought, “I know what those powers feel like.” There was an evil fog in that living room that night. So I ran away. I joined the Atlanta Ballet Company and left my son with my mother, who didn’t know the extent of what was going on with my husband. But eventually I missed my son too much, and returned to Texas. Did things improve after you moved home? There was something of a reconciliation and my husband transferred his job to Atlanta so I could keep dancing. But things went downhill again quickly. One night, I had to be accompanied at the theater by armed guards because my husband came with a gun to take my son back. For years, I had a dream that I was carrying my son, running away. I left again, I ran away to Canada but I could only get a job as an understudy in a ballet company there and that doesn’t pay anything. It was freezing cold! I became very fearful of what life would be like. I was living in a tenement house sharing a bathroom with five other families. No money. I had to go back. There was no other way out. As I talk to women now around the world who keep going back to abusive husbands, as I did, I ask, “Why? Why?” It’s fear! They don’t know what to do. We just keep thinking it will be all right. I went back and got pregnant right away and then John thought it wasn’t his child. When she was born well after 9 months, there was no question. Barbara Jones Was your husband ever officially diagnosed with a mental illness? You know, there was no such thing as “manic depression” in the 1960s. I believe if he had been on medication he would have been very different. But I don’t know. I went back and stayed five more years. Living in sheer terror every night because he would have a gun in the closet, or the windowsill. He drank at this time too, although he hadn’t before. He had his own computer company that did well, and I started directing Barbizon schools [modeling and fashion merchandising schools] in Paso & Dallas so I was able to make some money as well. I would pay my part of our bills. I had my daughter, Wendy, who was of course my husband’s, despite his suspicions. She and my son are the joys of my life. They keep me going. One day my husband picked a fight with me – I can see it now, I was sitting in a blue wing-backed chair – and of course I took the bait and he dragged me up the stairs to the bathroom where he had me stand in the tub. He took out a 44 Magnum revolver and put it to my head and said, “I’m going to kill you, and then I’m going to kill myself.” So, for the third time, I reached out to my Father in Heaven, although I didn’t know then to call Him “Father”. Just “God, are you there?” And again, I felt peace, even with tears streaming down my face. Therapists have told me that if I had struggled at all, he would have shot me. But instead, he dropped the gun and left the house and shortly after he killed himself. We had been married for twelve years, from. What about your faith during those five years after you got back from Canada? I still had faith. I was not going to Mass everyday, I wasn’t as devout, but I still prayed all the time. We were Catholic, we didn’t get divorces. My parents were married for 50 years. What was your reaction when you heard he took his life? I was relieved because I knew it would be difficult for my children to keep living that kind of life. Being afraid, see their dad in bars and threatening us. In that way, I was relieved. But then there was guilt. I went through a whole cycle: anger, hopelessness, depression. Guilty that it was my fault. That I could have stopped him. I totally thought it was my fault. At this time, you were professionally teaching young girls poise and confidence and self-esteem through Barbizon. Was there a correlation between what you were teaching at this time and they way you viewed yourself? I don’t think I could have done anything in this life without my faith. Nothing. I’m still on my knees every day thanking God: Thank you for trials. Thank you for those years. And I tell women, “Your trial is your greatest treasure. Go out and share it with other women. Somehow this trial will be for your benefit. You know there is a god. You know why we are here.” It seems very trite and we hear it all the time, but it’s so true. Your greatest trial is your greatest treasure. We spend our lives treasure-hunting. There are all kinds of abuse. There are husbands who won’t give their wives cash or checking accounts or credit cards. That’s financial abuse! But faith will get you through it. How did you meet your second husband? I met my second husband, Hal Jones, at a Modeling Association of America convention in San Francisco, where he lived. My husband was 26 years older than I was. He had already had a successful career. He worked in heavy construction, roads and bridges. I met him in an elevator in the St. Francis Hotel and I was with some other directors of modeling schools. We were all dressed up. I was dressed in a yellow coat dress, a yellow hat with a pheasant feather, yellow gloves, and I carried a walking stick! He leaned down and said, “You’re from Texas, aren’t you?” And I said, “Yes, how did you know? “ “Because you look like the yellow rose of Texas!” He invited me and my modeling friends to dinner, but I wouldn’t go. I was there to learn and work! So I went to a wrinkle cream seminar instead. And just when all my friends came back from dinner with this gentleman, there I was the wrinkle cream seminar with half my face covered in something like Elmer’s Glue and egg whites, pulled so tightly I could hardly speak and looking like Godzilla’s Mother! Then the seminar people took the cream off me which was even worse because now I had no makeup on and they put a chair in front of me and invited anyone who wanted to come feel the side of my face that had the cream on it and feel the difference! All my lady friends encouraged Hal to touch my face too. There he was like a duck out of water, but he put one hand on one cheek and his other hand on my other cheek, and it was instant chemistry. He wasn’t handsome, but we were soul mates from the day we met. As the seminar ended, he asked if he could show me San Francisco the next day. We courted for two years, me in Dallas and him in San Francisco. He’d been married before and had three daughters near to my age! Ouch. But we were married for nearly 30 years. Being a stepmother is a story in itself. I took care of him for 13 years while he was sick, in and out of the hospital. We just adored each other. How did you discover the Church? Hal was Catholic like I was, and he read the Bible every day. I didn’t even do that. It was very unusual among Catholics at that time, to actually read the Bible to yourself. When I married Hal, he asked me to read the scriptures everyday too. I kept feeling like there was something we were missing, there was more to spiritual life than what we knew. I started attending a local Bible study class with women from all sorts of other denominations. None LDS though. It was there I learned about Jesus. They told me Jesus wanted to be my friend. Jesus wanted a relationship with me. Jesus hadn’t been a strong factor in my religious experience before. I knew he was part of the Trinity, and of course there were the crucifixes and statues of him with Mary and Joseph. But He was always part of the Trinity… you would never talk to Jesus or be with Jesus. Now I was being told that Jesus wanted to be my friend. What did that mean? I could talk to him myself. These other people had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and I wanted that too. I would do crazy things as I looked for Jesus. I had lunch everyday at a little deli near my kids’ school, and I would sit by myself and pretend I was talking to Jesus. I’d say, “This is my problem today, this is what I’m thinking about…” I kept thinking I’d get some sort of sign, but I did that prayer for five years and there was nothing. “Jesus, who are you? Where are you? I’m told you want to be my friend, but I need to know what that means.” In the summer of 1979, my husband and I hiked in Montana, and when we finished, he was going to go back to San Francisco and I was going to El Paso to visit my father. But we had a layover together in Salt Lake City. I’d never been there before and when we got off the plane I said to the stewardess, “What is this place? It’s hot like a pizza oven! Who ever comes here?” We checked in at a hotel near the airport, and my husband said, “I have an idea! Let’s go for a hike!” I can just hear Hal saying it in his booming voice. We put on our hiking gear and started walking up North Temple. We walked from the airport to Temple Square. We got to Temple Square, and he said, “Look, it’s the Mormon Temple! Would you like to go in?” I’d never been another church! “Look at it as a historical landmark!” he encouraged. So I said to the missionaries on the grounds, “We’ve come to go into your temple.” Instead, we were directed into the Visitors’ Center which I thought must be a chapel. But there were no crucifixes. Where were Mary, Joseph and Jesus? Instead, we were sat down in a movie theater. “Mormons are weird,” I thought. “They watch movies in church.” I was rolling my eyes with every new thing. And the movie started: there was a boy and he saw God and angels… Now, my husband was hard of hearing … “What is that angel’s name? Macaroni?” Everyone around us was laughing. “What?” The story goes on, the boy finds gold plates… Totally weird. Barbara Jones Then, the last picture on the screen was a picture of Jesus, a picture I had never seen in my entire life. Jesus in the Catholic Church usually wore camel colored robes with a rope around his waist. But here was Jesus like I had never known before: he was in white with a red sash, and he had angels all around him. His arms were outstretched. He said in the darkness to me, “Barbara, here I am. Come follow me.” I sat there in the dark movie theater, sobbing. I didn’t have to have the discussions, I didn’t have to read the Book of Mormon. I had wanted Him to be a part of my life for five years, and here He was. Little did I know that day that His invitation would take me to Australia, New Zealand, Mexico, China, Korea, Central America, Canada, South America, England, Etc. It was an invitation that changed my life forever. It took my husband three years and ten pairs of missionaries, and I thought he would never be baptized. He adored the missionaries, but he was too staunch a Catholic. He always lectured the missionaries: “Now son, when you go back into the world, you have to work hard to succeed. Come earlier, stay later, outwork your competitors….” One of the young elders said, “Mr. Jones, do you think I would give up two years of my life for something I don’t truly believe?” And my husband put his hand on the boy’s shoulder and said, “No, son, I don’t. I believe it is right for you, but I’m an older man now and I will never join a Church where I have to sit for three hours!” I thought, What kind of a criteria is that?! Well, my husband adored my daughter. She had him wrapped around her little finger. She loved church. The children had been going with me and they had friends there and she wanted to be baptized. She was 11, and she came downstairs the morning after the missionaries were there. She’s very dramatic. Where could she have gotten that? – she put her hand on her hip and said, “Well, dad. I’ve made a decision. I’ve decided that since we are not going to be baptized, that I’m going to smoke and drink.” And she waltzed out of the room. Hal twirled around in his chair to face me and said, “We will be baptized this Saturday.” He knew she meant business. Well, she almost did all those things anyway! But if he were here now, he’d tell you it was the greatest decision we made in our lives, but he gives the credit to my daughter. I was asked to be a visiting teacher. What was that? I had no idea. I was assigned to visit the Stake Relief Society president, but my companion made it very clear that she was not going to give the lesson. I didn’t even know we were supposed to share a lesson. “Oh, you can just tell about your conversion,” my companion said. So we went to the Stake Relief Society president’s home and she served us hot wassail and I thought, “Oh isn’t this nice and cozy,” and she said, “Tell me about your life.” Well, what was I supposed to do? I told her. And when I was done, she said, “How would you like to share that story with a few of our Relief Society women?” You don’t mind sharing the story that you know, it’s not like I had to prepare much. But of course I had no idea what I was getting into: she wanted me to speak at a Stake Relief Society meeting with hundreds of women there! I thought I would die. I had been a performer, but as a ballerina, we don’t talk. We make lots of pretty gestures, but we don’t talk! Since your baptism, you’ve spoken all over the world to groups of women. So many women have been touched by your message. What do you get from the women? I travel so much. Last year, I lived out of a suitcase from January 7th to August 20th. I was so completely exhausted! I would think to myself, “I just can’t get on another plane.” But then I would get there and there is something about the spirit of sisterhood that is so powerful. I don’t think we know exactly what that does to us. We roll our eyes: “Oh, we have to go to Relief Society and those cultural refinement meetings. We have to learn how to make crafty items” But there is something that is magic about the sisterhood, and the more I travel and the more I listen to women, the more glean from their spirits. I’ve been through so much of what these women have – married an older man? Check. Husband who’s abusive? Check. I can relate. My patriarchal blessing says I will speak to many women. I said to my husband when I got my blessing, “What does that old man with the white hair know about me?” After every weekend Relief Society conference. I feel so buoyed up by the spirit that I don’t need a plane in which to fly home. Jesus is the wind beneath my wings. What do you hope most that they get from your message? I’ve written in my books, “There is no earthly force greater than the divine power within a woman determined to rise.” Determined to rise above anything: above abuse, neglect, incest or any trial. We have that power within us. You lose your self esteem, your testimony goes down, you feel disconnected from Heavenly Father. But He had come to me in the most horrible times, and I knew He was with me. Every woman has that divine power. Look what Heavenly Father gives to us. I used to look at men and think, They get to preside, provide and protect. Women only have nurturing. But now I’m astounded at how much that encompasses. We are the leaders of love, of beauty, of femininity. You get out into the world and it is an aggressive world. I did a national radio talk show in South Africa, and they wanted to know what I thought was the difference between men and women. I answered that I thought it is our femininity that allows us to be powerful. Look at the impact of our softness, our “feminine wiles”. Look at what we can do with love, with faith. Once women realize who they really are, that Young Women phrase that is often so trite – “We are daughters of our Heavenly Father, who loves us…” – gains tremendous depth and power. We have scars, we have earned our queenly crowns. We are strong beyond measure. In your 24 years of talking to women, what’s the most encouraging development you’ve seen among the women of the Church? I think we are getting closer to having the self-respect that we deserve. LDS women have to navigate a patriarchal culture and women in many other countries struggle with huge domestic violence statistics, and worldwide there is still oppression that makes women feel lesser. When I encourage women to “take care of themselves,” I’ve heard the same stories for 25 years: “How can I do that? I’m a human taxicab. I run kids around and take care of sick parents and buy food…. “ The number one problem I hear is: I’m overwhelmed, I have too much to do, and I’m exhausted. Let me tell you my answer: “If you got a call right now saying your child or husband is in the hospital in intensive care, but you still had to run carpool or go to the grocery store or whatever it is, what would you do? You’d drop everything and go to the bedside of person you love. You’d sit there and love them and be there for them.” We choose to take on too much as women. We need to follow the admonishment of dear sister Marjorie Hinckley, “Simplify your life.” I know this is not easy. I’ve just gone through this process myself at this late stage of life. Here’s what I said: “I’m going to die, and all those incredibly wonderful ladies I lectured to all my life, will they be at my funeral? No. But my family will be there.” That needs to be my priority. But it’s a fine line, because after your children leave home, most women just feel lost. We also need to find the right time to say, “I love you, but you’re on your own right now. You’ll be fine. But I’m going to go do something I feel passionately about right now.” Every woman needs to find that balance for herself. Think about it: The oxygen mask comes down in the plane and you put it on yourself first, then on your child. It doesn’t have to be much. If you take a tiny thread for 365 days, doing a little something for yourself every day, you have a rope. You must learn that life is not just living through storms, it’s learning to dance in the rain while holding tightly to the hand of Christ. At A Glance Name: Barbara Barrington Jones Location: San Francisco, CA Age: 60s Marital status: Widow of the late Hal Jones Children: John (3 children), Wendy Adamson (3 children) Occupation: CEO Barbara Barrington Jones Family Foundation Convert: 1982 Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “As I Have Loved You” On The Web: www.barbarabarringtonjones.com Interview by Neylan McBaine.

Liz Shropshire is the founder and director of the Shropshire Music Foundation, which provides free musical instruments and instruction to former child soldiers and refugees in Kosovo, Uganda, and Northern Ireland. Since 1999, more than 10,000 young people have participated in Shropshire Music Foundation classes. What led you to teach music to children victimized by war? I did my undergrad at BYU in music composition and theory. Then I went to the University of Southern California and studied film scoring. I was going to be a famous film composer and change the world. I worked in that industry for a while but I kept having to ask my parents for rent money. After a few years of that it got kind of old and I decided I needed to have a monthly check coming in. So I decided to teach emotionally disturbed kids, partly because I didn’t need a teaching certificate but also because I didn’t just want to do something for money. I wanted to do good. Liz Shropshire Leading 400 Kids Singing Tolerance Songs Together at End of Summer Tolerance Camp, Kosovo 2001 Almost all of these kids were in gangs. Some of the girls had been prostitutes for a long time. There was a lot of drug use. The kids were in and out of jail. Up until then, I had been really good at any job I’d done, but this one, I was just in over my head. I didn’t have the street smarts. I wasn’t very good at it the first year. But I got all this great training. My second year I got hired at a better school where the kids weren’t allowed to threaten your life. One of the teachers at that school wanted me to teach her kids piano. I said, “I’m not a piano teacher. I’m a composer.” She said, “You’re a really good teacher and a musician. You can obviously teach.” After a while, I was making much more money with my private students than from my teaching. I’d always wanted to do something to help out. I’d wanted to go to India and meet Mother Theresa. I wanted to start an orphanage in Nepal. But I’d never had the money for it. I was just scraping by. I kept thinking, Someday I’ll meet someone and they’ll say, “Oh you’re so talented. You have so much to offer. I will pay your way to go this country and do this thing if you will just work for free.” But of course that doesn’t happen in real life. I had also always wanted to travel, so that’s what I did. I would get enough money to travel, then I would come back to LA and work some more. It felt very selfish, really self-centered. In 1996 I went to Northern Ireland and that was the first time I saw the effects of war on children. I was walking across this Protestant neighborhood. Bombed-out homes had these horrible murals painted on them of men with masks and guns breaking down doors and sayings like, “We won’t surrender until we get what we want.” I saw this little boy, about eight years old, walking down the street all by himself. He was hunched over and he was smoking a cigarette. As he got closer I saw his face. He looked like an eighty-year-old. I felt so bad for this kid living in this neighborhood. As I walked through the town and looked closer at the kids, I saw this look in their faces, this haunted, hardened look. Liz Shropshire Teaching Catholic and Protestant Children in Singing Class, Northern Ireland 2005 I was in Belfast for General Conference. I found the chapel and went in and sat down and I looked at the kids around me and they didn’t look at all like the kids I’d seen on the street. I didn’t see that hardness. I didn’t see that closed-in thing. Yet they’d been living in the exact same situation as the street kids. I started crying. I don’t remember a word that was said that whole conference. I just cried the whole time and wrote and wrote and wrote that it just didn’t have to be like that. That’s when I decided that I wanted to do something to help children affected by war. But I didn’t know what it was. I am a composer, so I thought I would write a piece of music that would change the world. I was going to use music from all these countries and children from these countries as part of the orchestra. I collected a bunch of music from Northern Ireland and I started looking at other countries. Then in 1999, I was driving to the home of one of my piano students and listening to NPR. They were interviewing women from Kosovo who were living in refugee camps in Albania. They were telling a story I heard a million times once I was in Kosovo. The Serbs would go into the village, separate the men from the women, and then the women and the children would be told to leave, to walk to another country. While they were going they would hear gunshots but they weren’t even allowed to turn around and see what was happening to the men. They’d arrived in Albania and were living in refugee camps. The conditions were horrible. But the worst thing was that they didn’t know what had happened to the men in their lives, their fathers, sons, brothers. At the time I actually had a plane ticket to go to Europe. I found a German-based group working in Kosovo, the Balkan Sunflowers. You paid your way to get to the country and then you gave them a couple hundred dollars to cover your living expenses after you arrived. You ate with them and slept with them and they took care of you. I thought I’d go play with kids and carry water for the women. But when I was talking to my next door neighbor, she said, “Liz, don’t just go to go. Do what you do best and take a music program to the kids.” Our LDS mid-singles group did fund-raising yard sales and I started contacting instrument manufacturers. I ended up going with about $5000 worth of instruments. I wanted to get instruments that were small enough that the kids could put them in their pocket and nobody could take it away from them. I also wanted to have something that they could play neat stuff on. My brother had given me an Irish pennywhistle a few years before and I started playing it a lot and really liked it. So I decided to get Irish pennywhistles and harmonicas. If you get a good harmonica it will really last and the same with pennywhistles. I was assigned to Gjakove, the hardest hit place in Kosovo. The people were back in Kosovo from Albania and most of them were living in IDP (internally displaced persons) camps. The camp I started working in was a brick factory that had about 350 people living in it, only three of them men. The rest were women and children. They were all wondering what had happened to their men and didn’t know if they were going to see them alive or not. Liz Shropshire with Kosovar Homeless Children Living in Shelter Camp, 2004 I took a volleyball the first day I went to the camp. The kids were outside running wild. They were making weapons out of everything. They had real guns and real weapons, too. I started playing ballgames with them and they would start fighting and I would say, “Stop fighting or I’m going to take the ball and go home.” But of course I’m speaking English and they spoke Albanian, so I don’t know what they really thought I was saying. After about an hour I gathered up the ball and I started to leave. One of the women came out and grabbed me. She took me back to her room and all the women in camp had gathered in this room. There was a seventeen-year-old girl who was already a widow. She spoke some English so I talked to them through her. They couldn’t believe I was out there playing with their kids. They started telling me about themselves, and these women, they adopted me. They became my family over there. I used to sleep at the camp one night a week and it was always a party. I felt so loved by those women. I ended up staying for six weeks and by the end I was teaching five music classes a day six days a week in the local school and four classes a day six days a week in the camp. This camp that had been so, so, so sad became a place with life in it. The walk to the camp was about forty-five minutes and the last fifteen minutes of the walk all you could hear were these instruments I had brought. It wasn’t pretty–the harmonicas were in the key of C and the pennywhistles were in the key of D–but the change was amazing in that camp. It became a place full of life. I saw it happen with the women, too. Even though the classes were for the kids, the women were laughing more. At the end of six weeks, I’d used up all my savings. I’d maxed out my credit cards before I left. I’d spent everything to get over to Kosovo and do this program. The schools back in LA were saying, “We love what you’re doing but we’re going to fire you if you can’t get back. School has started.” So I said to the kids, “I’ve got to leave.” And they started crying. I’d never seen the kids cry. I’d seen them re-enact executioner. I’d seen young children attack grown women. I’d seen all kinds of stuff, but I’d never seen them cry. So I said, “I don’t know how I’m going to do it, but I promise you I will come back.” Liz Shropshire Teaching at Paboo IDP Camp, Uganda 2007 How did you start your non-profit foundation and how is it structured? Back in Los Angeles I gave a fireside and at the end of it I said, “I’ve got to get back to these kids. I don’t know how I’m going to do it.” One of the women came up afterwards and said, “If you want to start a non-profit, I’ll be your accountant.” Another woman offered to be the lawyer. They did the paperwork and started the Shropshire Music Foundation. Our whole foundation is volunteer-based. When I first started, my only role model was these other NGOs (non-governmental organizations) that do phenomenal multi-million-dollar programs hiring tons of locals. So that’s what I thought we needed to be, but I never, ever had the money for anything like that. We don’t even have an office. When I’m not overseas, my mom lets me take over her dining room table. We have a room we use in Kosovo. In Uganda, we use whatever room we’re staying in. A local family in Northern Ireland lets me live with them. So those are our offices. We have two full-time employees. One of them is me and one of them is our Kosovo program director who also directs the program in Uganda. In Kosovo, this whole program is run by teenage volunteers. That first summer I didn’t speak the language and I was teaching 100 kids in a class. A twelve-year-old girl volunteered to translate all my classes. The next summer she came to me and said, “Can I translate for you again?” I said, “Instead of translating, why don’t I teach you how to teach and then we can reach more kids.” Her friends started saying, “We want to do this, too,” and then their friends. Now these kids run every aspect of the program: they teach the classes, write lesson plans, attend training once a week, and meet weekly to talk about what’s going on in their classes and to give each other advice. They decide the songs we’re going to sing, the new villages we go to. They volunteer 20 hours a week during the school year and 30 hours a week in the summer, all without pay. There are kids that have lost everything, kids that have reason to hate and be angry. Some of them lived in camps as recently as six months ago. They could have just felt sorry for themselves. Instead they have chosen to be agents of change in their community. When I ask them what we’re doing, they say, “We’re teaching children peace through music.” Shropshire Music Foundation is a non-religious organization. You purposely exclude religious songs from your repertoire. Why did you set up the foundation this way? Every place I’ve been where there has been war, religion has been used as a weapon. The war in Kosovo was perceived as being Christians killing Albanians. The Serbs–the Christians–would literally kill a baby and carve the name of Jesus in the baby’s body and then say to the parents, “You dirty Muslims don’t deserve to have a baby.” I felt it was really important for people to see that I could live in their society and be a good Christian without forcing it on them. But everyone knows I’m a Christian. I’ve had kids come up to me in Kosovo, especially right after the war, and whisper in my ear, “Are you a Christian?” I’d say I am and they’d whisper back, “I thought so. I am too.” But they were whispering. It was very, very quiet because the Serbs had done so many atrocities in our community in the name of Christianity. There just weren’t fuzzy feelings toward Christianity. I want to make sure kids know that no matter what they believe they’re welcome to be part of our program. Our program is a safe place. Where do you live? When I first started the program I would be in Kosovo for seven months every year and then I would come back to America and do fund-raising. Once the Kosovo kids could run the program and we started going to other countries, it changed. In an ideal year, I would be three months in each country, and three months in America. We had one ideal year and then the economy crashed. The last two years I’ve had to be in America a lot more than usual. What are the biggest challenges your organization faces? What personal sacrifices have you made for the foundation? What are your long-term goals? The biggest weak link in our foundation is fund-raising. And the main reason for that is that I’m our main fund-raiser. I’m a really good program director. I’m a good teacher. But I’m not a good fund-raiser. About 600 people support us every year. As the economy has gotten bad, people are still donating to us even if they have to donate less. The number of people donating to us has not gone down. That really means a lot to me. I have no savings account; I used that all my first trip. I don’t get paid most of the time. Right now our foundation’s board insists I get paid $500 a month. When I have to buy clothes for speaking, I have to use my credit card, and I can’t always pay it off. So I would say that the biggest personal sacrifice is that I have to live with some personal debt—and I hate debt. I don’t care that I don’t have a car or a house or anything like that. But I don’t like having personal debt. Liz Shropshire with Pabo IDP Camp Singing Class, Uganda 2007 My long-term goal personally is that I get paid. I’m not in debt that much; all I have to do is get paid one year and I’m out of debt. My goal used to be that I would get paid and also that we would have a retirement fund. I don’t see that ever happening. But if I at least can start getting paid then I can start making my own retirement fund. But for the foundation, my goal is that we just keep doing this for the rest of my life and that by the time I die we have a bunch of other people doing it and it keeps going. You came to Kosovo without knowing anyone or even knowing the language. How did you become an accepted part of the community? When I first got there, the level of trust that people had for me because I was an American was exceptional. People I didn’t know would come up and hug me and say, “Go back to America and tell everyone thank you” because we had saved them. Now they’re not nearly as open but because I got there right after the war ended, they were very, very open to outsiders. The women who adopted me in the camp certainly made a difference. And I was also accepted in the community because of the way I dressed. It was 110 degrees outside. Most of the aid workers were not dressed very modestly. I of course was. So I don’t know. I think they saw that I had no money, that I wasn’t living any better than they were. Liz Shropshire Teaching in Kosovo, 2004 You have been working in parts of the world where members of the Church are few and far between. How do you stay spiritually fed and watered? I definitely wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now without my mission to Nova Scotia. The single best decision I ever made was to go on my mission. It changed my life. I learned how to receive personal revelation. I became confident in my knowledge of the gospel and able to talk to other people about it in a way that they felt safe. I became more of a leader, more organized. Because our mission was the lowest baptizing in the world, the mission president said we should use any opportunities to get into the community. My music opened up doors that nothing else did. I directed a community musical. I filled in for the local choir director when he couldn’t make it because of snowstorms. We started a children’s choir in a community that had never had one. I taught a two-month composition class in the local high school. My mission helped me realize that I could set a goal and if I felt Heavenly Father wanted me to do it, it didn’t matter what anyone else said or how “out there” it seemed. I could do it. I wouldn’t be able to do this without the scriptures. There’s no way. I love the scriptures. Reading the Book of Mormon after doing this has been such a different experience. I remember back in LA someone in Sunday School said, “Why is the Book of Mormon so full of war?” I said, “Because most of the world is mostly about war. We get to live in this pretty safe country and we don’t see it across the street, but the world does.” Mormon never got to be anything but a soldier. He tries to leave it, but he can’t stay away. He knows he’s going to get killed by these guys, yet he’s compiling scriptures for their children. When I get upset, when I get hurt, I think of Mormon’s amazing example of loving in spite of what happens to us. How has your being single affected what you do? Being single was not my goal, but a scripture I read soon after I started the foundation really hit me: “I consecrate unto them this land for a little season, until I, the Lord, shall provide for them otherwise… And the hour and the day is not given unto them, wherefore let them act upon this land as for years, and this shall turn unto them for their good” (D&C 51:16-17). I don’t know how long I will be in “this land” or this state of being single but I’m going to use my singleness to do as much as I possibly can. I can do stuff being single that I couldn’t do if I were in a different situation. Although it might not be what I would choose, it’s definitely what has proven to be an incredibly happy wonderful life for me. It’s because I’m single that I can do this. How can I not rejoice in that? At A Glance Name: Liz Shropshire Location: Arizona, Kosovo, Belfast, Uganda Age: 49 going on 36 Marital status: Single Children: About 10,500 so far, age 2 to 26 Occupation: Founder, President, and International Program Director of Shropshire Music Foundation Schools Attended: BYU, USC Languages Spoken at Home: English and Albanian Favorite Hymn: “Our Savior’s Love” On The Web: www.TeachingChildrenPeace.org Interview by Annette Pimentel.

Catherine Crittenden was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 1987, as the mother of three young children. With a husband engaged in international business leadership, Catherine initially felt guilty she couldn’t do all the things other moms do, but prayer, time and an understanding of the Atonement allowed her to adapt her mothering style to meet her abilities and feel a sense of self-worth in the face of her disease. Today, she is grateful for the time she has to be a grandmother — not the grandmother who swims and goes to sporting events, but the one who listens, reads and is a friend. How were you diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis? When we first moved to Germany with my husband’s job in 1982, I started noticing I was having a hard time walking. My left leg would not quite click and I was experiencing some sensory things and depth perception, things like heat and tingling and my mind would feel a little fuzzy. I just thought it was stress. Every doctor I went to would say it was because I was under a lot of pressure being a young mother with a husband who was busy and regularly traveling for work. For four and a half years I thought I was just going crazy, but I also felt this wasn’t me. I knew something was wrong. But everything always recovered until my very last attack, the attack that I had just as we were moving from Germany. That one was bad enough that I knew that this was just not normal and I couldn’t tell where my feet were. We returned to the US in 1987 and I remember we got home on a Friday and I went to the doctor on the Monday. She told me to see a neurologist which I did on the Wednesday and they diagnosed the MS based on my history. Then on the Friday, my husband Gary left and went back to Germany for two months. We had just barely moved into an old Bostonian home that had four floors and I really wondered what I was doing! From my first attack to when I was diagnosed was probably about five years. What was your response to the diagnosis? Gary went with me to my appointment and when the doctor diagnosed me with MS, I thought, “At least this has a name.” He asked if I had any questions and I couldn’t think of any. He had just changed my life in one full sentence. He handed me a two-page sheet about what MS is and Gary and I left. We got out into the hallway and as we began to walk to the elevator, I started to cry. Gary put his arm around me, and he said, “Cathy it’s okay. We’ll get through this. And I said, “No, I am just grateful this has a name, I am just grateful I am not crazy.” That then started a very rocky road. In the beginning, I would rather have had something that I would have died from, because then I would have known what was happening. The thing with MS is that you never know what it is going to do. It can be very light and very easy or it can be very severe and in a couple of years you could be in a wheelchair or bedridden. I didn’t know what it was going to do to my life. I was very lucky that when we came home from Germany, we were in Boston with one of the greatest medical teaching hospitals around, and I had a doctor who was very aggressive in his treatments. I did five years of chemotherapy and I lost my hair but I know that he kept me out of a wheelchair. I know he kept me walking. I am sure I could have been more holistic in my approach to treatment but I was a young mother with a husband who was gone a lot. I just had to do what I could to get through it. I know without a doubt that people have been placed in my way to help me. I am a big proponent of the idea that there are no coincidences. I know that I have been led to the people that I was supposed to be led to, who could help me. How did the Gospel sustain you through that time? I remember before I was diagnosed, a friend asked me what I would do if I did have MS. I said that I just couldn’t do it, and he said to me, “No, you could and you would. Let’s just hope you don’t have to.” It actually gave me a lot of strength. I think we are all made of more than we give ourselves credit for. We do just get up and go on and do it. During that time is when the Atonement became very real to me. I remember praying and feeling that the Lord had given me more than I could do, and that nobody understood where I had been or what I was doing. I read an article about how Heavenly Father and the Savior already knowing every single feeling and emotion we feel. There is nothing we experience that our Savior has not felt. I gained great peace from that, knowing that I could never say again that nobody understood what I was going through. I realised that the Savior had already experienced this very thing that I was experiencing. That was when the Atonement really kicked in and I truly understood what it meant. I would die rather than stand before the Lord and say, “You know, that was just a little bit too hard. I couldn’t quite do that, you really should have thought about that one before you gave it to me.” When I had that understanding, I knew I would go through whatever I needed to. I started reading the Doctrine & Covenants while my children were napping and felt a real affinity for Joseph Smith. That is when I gained my true testimony of the gospel and of prayer and of realizing that I couldn’t solve everything. For the first time in my life, I had to go to my Heavenly Father and say, “I don’t know what is happening to me. But please help me, please help me. Help me to know that I can do this.” Up until that point, nothing ever really frightening had ever happened in my life. Uncomfortable things had happened, but nothing that I had ever really feared. I read about Joseph’s time in jail and gained a real love and appreciation for him. I felt a real connection to him, and a realization that my trial was not going to be easy, but that I could do it. What other sources of strength did you receive from the gospel? When you have the gospel in your life, you are a part of a ward family, and through that I realized that everybody struggles and faces hard things, and we are all in this together. I had very tender things happen to me where I knew the Lord was aware of me and what was happening in my life through being a part of a ward family. Seeing the kindness that was bestowed on me and my family really helped solidify my testimony of Relief Society and “Charity Never Faileth” and kindness and service. It helped me to realize what vital parts those play in the gospel. We are there to support and to love and to really be sisters and advocates of each other. It has also made me realize that people very rarely want service shown to them. They don’t want to appear weak. I feel like as important as it is to bestow service to others, part of that whole package is letting people serve you and accepting that with a gracious heart, embracing the love that comes from others. Giving and receiving service is a two-fold package. How did you take care of your family and take care of yourself during that time? When you’re in the midst of an experience like this, you don’t know anything different; you just do it because you have to do it. Gary was very busy in his career [as CFO of American Express and Citigroup] and he wasn’t always there but the kids had to be taken care of, daily life still needed to happen and despite the treatment I was able to do all of those things back then. I used to pray and say “Heavenly Father, if you can just please help me through raising my kids, I will be happy.” Now I’m to the point where I say, “If I can just get though my grandchildren being raised, I will be happy!” The Lord is kind – He knows. Catherine Crittenden and Her Family I did feel a lot of guilt over the things I couldn’t do for my children and with them. I couldn’t go to the mall with my daughters and I couldn’t go to the baseball games and stand outside for several hours. I couldn’t take my kids to the swimming pool because people with MS are very sensitive to heat, and there were a lot of things I couldn’t do. I also felt guilty that my children had to do so much more than other children and that it was hard for them to grow up with this. But looking back, which is always easier on other side, I think that it wasn’t a bad thing that they were raised having to do things more and be independent. I know it strengthened our family to have to depend on each other. I also know that I was blessed with good kids. I think Heavenly Father knew I needed the children I had and I couldn’t have managed my illness alongside motherhood any other way. I just don’t think that they come any better. I feel that is not because of me, it’s in spite of me. They came as amazing young spirits. I was not a perfect mom, I yelled and I had my hard days. It wasn’t always easy, but it was okay. How did your MS impact your marriage? My husband has never made me feel less because of this, and when I have felt less he will put his arms around me and say, “I know it is hard honey, but we are going to get through this.” He’s never treated my disease like it isn’t a big deal, and he is always very sympathetic. If I have anybody who is a team player or a defender for me, it is him. There were a lot of times where I was going through the worst parts and he wasn’t there. If he could have been, he absolutely would have been, but life was different than that. Of course I wish he had been there more but I look back and now and think that because he wasn’t, it forced me to do things that maybe I wouldn’t haven’t done, which isn’t all bad. When I went to the hospital for my treatments, I would see the number of women whose husbands had abandoned them because they couldn’t see their way clear of this (and it was interesting to me it was always women whose husbands had left them, it was never men whose wives had left them). I felt so grateful for our covenants and that we both valued commitment; that we knew life can be hard but you work through those things together. We had been married for seven years when I had my first attack, for twelve when I was diagnosed and now we have been married 35 years. I can’t imagine how my life would have been without Gary. Catherine Crittenden and Her Husband How have you kept your marriage strong through years of a busy career, heavy church callings and your illness? I had a sweet experience a few years ago. Gary has always been so physically active – when we lived in Connecticut, he would get up at 4:45am every morning so that he could exercise and go to work, and I couldn’t do that. I remember saying to him that I was worried we didn’t have anything in common. He let me go on and on and on and then he asked if he could tell me what he thought we had in common. He said, “We adore each other, we have built a life together, we have got wonderful children and wonderful grandchildren. We like to be together. I look at the life we have built together, and that is what we have in common.” I have never forgotten that! It was a real lesson for me that when we talk about things in common, it doesn’t just need to be going out and running or watching sports, it is also what you have built together over a marriage and a lifetime. Gary is also the least selfish person I know. He has taught me so much about applying the Golden Rule. I always knew how he loved me. Gary is not someone who is impressed with where he is at in life, either, and I think for that we were really lucky. I remember once when one of the kids said, “Wow, I didn’t realize Dad was important!” What he did was as a means to provide for our family, but his job was not more important than our family. My role as a wife and mother was never treated as less significant than his role as the provider. How have you maintained your sense of worth? I love the Young Women’s value of individual worth, but it has taken me a lot of years to really feel how important I am to my Heavenly Father, and it’s something I have to remind myself constantly. I know that there were things that I tried to do like scripture study classes and other things I was interested in that I knew were going to make me grow as a person. I really do believe that light and dark cannot exist in the same place at the same time, and I know that if you are really doing the things that you should be doing, reading the Gospel and studying the scriptures, then Heavenly Father will provide you with a sense of self worth. Of course that doesn’t mean you don’t ever feel bad. Sadly, this is an imperfect world and that is the whole reason we are here, to learn and to grow. I think for anybody life is an experience to make you reach outside of yourself. I know when we are worried about others and reaching outside of ourselves, our own problems and inadequacies seem less significant. In a society that places emphasis on ‘doing’ as opposed to ‘being’, how have your reconciled your situation with your purpose in life and what you can ‘do’? I think that has been hard for me. Now that I am a grandmother, it is especially hard for me sometimes. I can’t do cookie baking or go to the park or go to the zoo and I have really spent a lot of time thinking about what I can give these children, because I can’t give them those things. At the beginning of this year, my eldest grandchild, Jackson, got to be the “Student of the Week” at school. He had to bring in a special possession and talk about his likes and dislikes, so the kids could get to know him. When my daughter Kelli was making up a poster with Jackson, one of the questions was, “Who is your hero?” Jackson said to Kelli, “Grandma is my hero because she will sit and play a game with me and read a book with me and watch a movie with me.” When I heard this it became so evident to me that all people really want is time, and to know that somebody values their opinion and wants to listen to them and talk to them. I have always loved sitting and talking to people at church when I was waiting for Gary in his callings, and it is no different with my grandchildren. Until this happened, I had always felt guilt about my grandchildren, but I realised that eventually they are going to grow up and go through their teenage years, and although I can’t go to the mall or go shopping with them or do other things, I can sit and talk and listen to them and give them my time and let them know how important I think they are. It isn’t easy for me to make a meal and take it to people, but it is easy to sit and talk to people. What have you learned from your life experiences so far? I have learned what an amazing husband I have, I value him more with every passing year. I have learned to value my children, that at the end of the day tangible things don’t mean anything. It is those relationships that you have with family and friends. I have learned that everybody is just trying to do their best, and if I can learn to give people the benefit of the doubt and to not be selfish and to learn how I can be an instrument to help other people, those are the big things. We are not perfect, otherwise we wouldn’t be here, and so I have learned to be willing to know that people are capable of repenting and to know that people are not perfect and to not be offended by things. There are so many more things to get upset about than insignificant things. I have realized there is something to be learned from everybody. I wish I had felt that when I was younger! I am so grateful for everything Heavenly Father has given me because I know I have been blessed beyond my wildest dreams. I look at the MS as a part of that because I look at the things I have learned as a result. If I were out being able to do everything that I would be able to do if I didn’t have MS, maybe I wouldn’t have learned the lessons I have and I might not have learned the value of people and trying to slow down a bit. Do you feel you have peace about the future? I do. In the beginning, with each attack, I remember wondering if this would be the big one that would leave me paralyzed or bedridden. This was a big fear for me because I was a mom with kids at home. Now, I think no matter what happens I know I am at peace with it, because you don’t have to look far to find things in the world that are so much worse. It is frustrating sometimes not to be able to do the things you want to do, but in the big scheme of things, I know a lot of things I have worried about ended up not being important. I remember when I was first diagnosed, one of the first thoughts I had was worrying about who would take care of my girls when they had their babies. But I have done it! My worries about my illness were mostly about the impact it would have on my family. But I am old enough now to know that the Lord really is in charge and that He knows me by name; He knows what is required of me and what I have to do, and so as long as I keep trying to move forward, it is going to be okay. At A Glance Name: Catherine Crittenden Location: Salt Lake City, UT Marital status: Married Children: Three, Kelli (34), Stephanie (31), Spencer (30) Occupation: Grandmother Schools Attended: BYU Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “I Believe In Christ” Interview by Louise Elder.

A student of Latin and Greek and a budding education reformer, Lia Collings is already engaged in teaching her three young daughters about these things she loves. Lia takes inspiration on how to intertwine her scholarly and motherly pursuits from the passel of mothers in her New Haven, CT, branch. She solicited and compiled a book of essays about their experiences, which she entitled Choosing Motherhood. Tell me about your book, Choosing Motherhood. Choosing Motherhood actually originated as Letters to My Daughters: “Dear daughter, this is my experience….” I wanted to help my daughters in twenty years when they’re facing their own decisions about career and motherhood. But then my aim spread from trying to help my own daughters to helping women right now. As I was formulating what I was going to do, I read a talk Sister Beck gave to seminary and institute teachers related to teaching the doctrine of the family [also featured in the March 2011 Ensign]. She says that the rising generation doesn’t have faith that they can form successful families. I thought that hearing stories from these women who knew they could be successful in the standard arenas, but who took this leap of faith and chose to be mothers would help other women making the same decisions now. That is what the book is. I have three daughters; they’re little. I am a feminist, a really strong feminist because being amazing and awesome is just what women do. So, of course I want my girls to be that way and be awesome and be intelligent because that is what I am trying to raise them to be—and faithful of course. But, I don’t want to raise them to have all these talents and then have them turn their back on being a mom. Lia Collings and Her Children My husband is a gradate student at Yale University, so in our ward here in New Haven, CT, I’m surrounded by highly educated, capable women who have chosen to be mothers. The book is their stories, what made them decide to choose motherhood. At first, I just chose a few women, just really amazing moms, who took all the passion and the intelligence and the using-my-talents-and-magnifying-them that they would have put into a career and put it into being a mom. Because they applied their minds to their mothering, they didn’t feel unfulfilled. This wasn’t the case for me because before being a mom I had been working on the Joseph Smith Papers and doing all this fun intellectual stuff, and so it was an abrupt shift to give that up. It is hard for me when my children are babies, since I don’t love cuddling with babies; I never played with dolls as a child. This is silly, but I didn’t think to change my babies into pajamas to go to bed until I was reading a Raggedy Ann story like a year ago. I was a mom for six years before I realized that. But I love learning. I love teaching. I love exploring and engaging. So it’s hard for me when they’re really little and I can’t do those things as easily with them. One of my goals is to speak to highly educated mothers who feel like they’ve wasted their education if they’re “just a mom.” That was me five years ago. Right now my really important contribution is teaching my children the gospel and nurturing a righteous family. In large part, I learned that from the other women in this intellectual church community where intellectual women are showing me how I can still learn and develop, even at home. And by the way, you’re not “at home.” I hate that phrase “stay-at-home mom” because you’re not staying at home. You go crazy if you stay at home! Lia Collings and Her Family How do you balance your own development with your children’s development and those dreams that you had that you have put aside for a while? Obviously I still have a mind that I want to use. So I read a lot. All the time, I guess, since we don’t have TV. I think reading’s a good way to develop yourself and your children at the same time, because even if it’s a children’s book about giraffes, I still learn a whole lot about giraffes! Also, I’ve chosen to develop talents that will enrich my family. For example, I have been making our bread for years. For four years I’ve made all our bread, and then this year for Christmas I asked for The Bread Baker’s Apprentice so I can branch out that skill to making artisan breads. Enjoying the stage we’re in is another thing I’ve learned from the mothers who surround me. One friend, for example, has a master’s in art history, and she got close to finishing her doctorate. But she was about to deliver her second baby and so she put her academic life on hold to prioritize her children. At one point in my life, I would have been bitter about sacrifices like that, but this friend taught me that it’s okay to channel my energies into developing talents that jive better with my current stage of life. This friend loves French cooking and pastries, she set the goal to make a hundred pies. Now she’s the Pie Queen. That’s a talent (and a title) that she couldn’t develop later when she goes back into academia. I studied Latin and Greek, which I love and which you have to be engaged in to stay on top of. Now, here I am six years after graduation, and I don’t remember anything. So, I am starting Julia, my six-year-old, on Latin through a homeschool program. I got an English grammar that we are working through so she will know verb and direct object and subject, and things like that. Julia and I have started on Latin and then in two years when Ellie starts school I’ll start both of them on Greek at the same time. And then when Katharine starts school I’ll start Ellie and Katharine on Latin together. I’ll know it so well by the time they are done that I’ll have refreshed it all for myself, and I’ll also know which elementary and secondary school curricula work and which don’t. One of my goals is to get involved in education reform. I had started a master’s degree in public policy with an emphasis on education that I decided to drop out of because I had a little baby. At the time it was a big sacrifice to leave that program, but now I know so much more about myself as a person and about the world. I’ll make a much better student and professional when I go back to it. I grew up in Utah and went to BYU, which is a great education, but it really is a bubble. At that time I only had my own education to go off of—what I liked about my own education and what I didn’t like about my own education. And I thought I could go reform the world on that or what my teachers said or what I read in books. But now when I go back, I’ll have New Haven school systems as part of my experience, too. We are going to Germany this year. I’ll have that whole school system, which I think is really interesting. Wherever we’ll be moving, and as a parent with all these different children who learn differently, I’ll be learning too. My oldest daughter is very rules oriented and so grammar is going really well with her. My second one is a total auditory learner. We memorize poems, and she memorizes them much faster than the six-year-old. She’s like a little Dr. Seuss—she’s unbelievable with words. She just makes them up. She’s four, and she’s telling this little kid on the playground, “Do you see my sister over there? She’s scurrying away. She’s the one scurrying.” What four-year-old uses the word “scurrying”? So, I’ll be so much better prepared to really do something to reform education later on after all this experience I’m getting. Lia Collings What ideas would you like to implement in schools? I think, for primary education, the Greek model of music, dance, and logic/rhetoric is so smart. I would love to start a charter school—these are my ideal ambitions—for even inner-city kids whose parents are not involved. I want to teach them about dance. We all have this natural urge to move our bodies, especially little kids. They’re just moving all the time and destroying things, and so you teach them to channel that movement into constructive forms. Or my children love to yell so we do lots of singing that channels that. For the older grades, probably second or third grade, I would include Latin. My educational ideals include getting down to the roots, the reasons behind things. When my girls started getting old enough that they could help me clean, I got Martha Stewart’s housekeeping book, Homekeeping Handbook: The Essential Guide to Caring for Everything in Your Home. So I could say, “This is what you wipe a table off with, not because this is how my mom did it and so that’s what we do but because this is a stone surface. Stone surfaces respond to this kind of cleaner. This is the reason behind it.” Latin is this base—basic little pieces of the sentence form. You understand language better when you know Latin. You think about it more. It is the same reasoning for studying math or something like that. It’s a logical building block. How does your desire to educate your children connect with your gospel understanding? I think that we kind of come with the seeds of all these different personality traits that can come out. Maybe some of them grow more because of how your parents are or because some of it is just a really strong plant—it’s a really strong trait that you came with. There’s good and bad, too. Maybe because of your surroundings or what choices you make or whatever, sometimes the bad things get watered and grow instead of the good things. If we talk about it in context of the Atonement, at some point along the way, as you get older—I don’t know if it’s just age and experience that increases righteousness—you try to improve and you come to recognize, These bad plants are part of me, and I don’t want them anymore. The Atonement can take that plant out, remove it totally. That’s amazing. Lia Collings Education is about nurturing these natural seeds. Going back to my example of little kids wanting to move their bodies, they can either go wild and move their bodies to hit people and kick and scream, or they can learn to dance with their bodies or to play soccer or any number of things. Education is directing those desires and watering the best and noblest plants. Maybe the same plant that could go bad could go good as well. I think educating your desires is teaching your soul to fly. If children are just left to gather whatever water they can for these little plants, who knows what’s going to happen? What do you teach your children? When I left academic life to be home with my baby, I was determined that she was going to know Latin. So when I would nurse her I would read her the Latin New Testament out loud. We have How the Grinch Stole Christmas in Latin, so I would read that to her. Then one night we had Family Home Evening with our friends who are totally not “intellectual” people but have these amazing testimonies. They are such thoroughly good people. I came home from that night with those good people and wrote in my journal, “What good will their knowing Greek and Latin do them if they don’t have a testimony that Jesus is their Redeemer and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God?” The most important thing to teach your children is what the Book of Mormon says: “We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ . . . that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins” (2 Nephi 25:26). Our family just went through an experience with repentance and forgiveness. You are hurt because you have hurt someone else, or you are hurt because someone else hurts you. Either it can ruin your life, or you can know to turn to Christ. That’s what we need to teach our children. Every problem I see, the answer is in the gospel. My girls are memorizing the poem, He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him. He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a child. Teach him. He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep. Wake him. He who knows, and knows that he knows, is wise. Follow him. That’s a Persian proverb, and I think it encapsulates the gospel. The person who “knows and knows not that he knows is asleep. Wake him”—that’s missionary work! The “wise men who know that they know” are the prophets. We need to follow them. How do you sort out the finer distinctions of faith and knowledge, maintaining a faithful perspective while also being very knowledgeable? I read my scriptures every day. I think one of my pettier temptations is wanting to have pretty clothes, but we just don’t have the money for that right now. Maybe I’m incredibly wicked, but if I skip a day of scripture study, I start thinking, “It wouldn’t matter if we went into debt just a little bit this month for me to get some new clothes…” But, even if I haven’t landed specifically on a “costly apparel” chapter, the things in the Book of Mormon are the important things. It really is faith, repentance, just turning to the Lord. That’s all that matters. And the Book of Mormon is so clear. I love the Book of Mormon. Reading the scriptures every day is a sign of humility, and praying beforehand, “Please teach me.” I have had so many experiences where I am not even looking for an answer to whatever problem, but it comes because I am reading the scriptures. You have to do that. If my faith is hesitant towards an action I should be doing, I just do it anyway. I have a very strong testimony of “If you do His will you shall know the doctrine.” Major things. Like, I didn’t want to get married. My plan was, I will not be married before I’m twenty-five. As it turned out, I had three kids when I was twenty-five. But I knew at twenty when the opportunity came that getting married was what I was supposed to do, so even though I didn’t have faith in the institution of marriage, I got married anyway. I didn’t gain my testimony of eternal marriage until five years into it. It wasn’t like, oh, you know, this is actually really great! It took time. And it was the same thing with motherhood. I was never a little girl who was really looking forward to doing the mom thing. But if our goal here is to become godlike and to root out all of those weeds, all those bad plants I was talking about earlier, motherhood is the way. Everything that bothers me in my children they got from me, even little things. I never thought of myself as a dramatic person, but my children are all really dramatic. I am realizing that I am dramatic. Even mannerisms – these little plants grow without our realizing it, and motherhood is a really effective way to bring it to our attention. If the point is to be godlike, if “making it” means becoming godlike, then the little primary song, “God gave us families to help us become who he wants us to be” is totally true. Lia Collings I learned from one of my mentors at the Joseph Smith Papers that, “Some things you just have to set on the back burner. Some things I’m not reconciled with but sometimes I bring it out of the back of my mind and chew on it a little. Sometimes I’m at a point where I can resolve it.” A lot of it is just being willing to admit you don’t know everything, and we won’t know everything. What are the important things? I like Latin because it gives you the reason behind the language. I get the Martha Stewart handbook because it tells me why we use this cleaner. I feel like the gospel does that for me, it gives me the “whys.” My goal with teaching my children is to give them those same “whys.” Last fast and testimony meeting I bore my testimony about fasting. If you think about it intellectually, why would fasting bring you the Spirit? I don’t know. It seems totally illogical. But these last four months are the only months I have been able to fast in our marriage because I was either pregnant or nursing all of the other months. And I don’t know what it is about just not eating, but I totally feel the Spirit. I don’t know how it happens. But I know that it’s true because I am doing it. At A Glance Name: Lia Collings Location: New Haven, CT Age: 27 Marital status: Married Occupation: Mother Children: Three Schools Attended: Brigham Young University Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “Be Still My Soul” On The Web: Choosing Motherhood at Amazon.com Interview by Elizabeth Pinborough. Photos by Caci Chapman and Nicolas Carrasco.

Melissa Puente is an Emmy-winning television editor and a mother of two sets of twin boys, ages 4 and 2. With four boys under three, Melissa felt tension in her home that didn’t reflect her gratitude at having her children safely with her. She challenged herself to read parenting books and document her responses on her own website, Learning Mommy. She now takes her education as a mother as seriously as her education as a TV editor. What have you learned from a career in reality TV? After graduating from BYU’s film program, I moved to New York City so my husband could attend law school. In New York, I got an editing job at a little production company, working on music videos and documentaries for VH-1, MTV and Oxygen. It was really fun and I was really busy; I learned a lot. Then, in 2002, I was assigned to work on a show about the (at the time) up-and-coming musician, John Mayer. The production people were shooting the footage with handheld cameras in a reality-show format and the video quality was good enough to broadcast straight to MTV. At the time, I was the Young Women president in our Manhattan ward and I had the privilege of knowing some of the amazing LDS teenage girls in our area. The girls were trying to develop their testimonies of the Savior and live the gospel without any support from their families, schools or communities—or even from their ward, because there weren’t many other young women. It was amazing to see how the Savior was practically the only one supporting them. I thought it would be neat to do a documentary about these girls, using this “new” reality format I used at work. I started filming and sent a rough cut to BYU for review. They were really interested in the idea, so I wound up working on this project for nearly four years. This was the first time many of those in the Church media industry had seen the reality genre in a Mormon setting. Up until this time, LDS media was very scripted. It was hard for some people to get used to—I got a lot of really funny comments from people, like that everyone looked “too casual.” It took a long time to get the approvals and a little funding, but “Sisters in Zion” aired on BYU-TV in 2006. In 2003 my husband and I had moved to Los Angeles, and I was really busy working on a lot of different shows for Oxygen, TLC, ABC and NBC. One of my favorite projects was a show called “Starting Over,” about women trying to make positive changes in their lives. It was an inspiring show to work on. Our edit team won an Emmy for our work in 2006. I’ve been really excited about the direction the Church is currently taking with media, leaning more toward reality. It’s wonderful to have people talking about living the Gospel in their own words and sharing their own stories from their hearts. I’m currently working on a couple projects for the Church; one is a series that will hopefully be broadcast on an outside, for-profit distribution arm. It would be amazing if we could tell our own stories to those not of our faith instead of watching others misrepresent us so frequently. Melissa Puente How was the transition from full-time film editor to a full-time mom? I really enjoyed working in television, but my life wasn’t going the direction I wanted it to. I quit my job, and then my husband and I experienced success with our fertility treatments and I was able to get pregnant with our first set of twins. I can’t even explain going through IVF, but it’s not fun. Unfortunately, our boys arrived 3½ months early. Just before they were born, doctors told me they didn’t know if the boys would live—and even if they did live, there was a significant chance they’d be severely handicapped. For most people, the day their kid is born is a wonderful experience, but for us it was the most awful occurrence of our lives. I had experienced early contractions and been placed in the hospital to slow down my labor. They gave me magnesium sulfate, an awful medication that caused a pulmonary edema (a buildup of fluid) in my lungs. It’s a rare side-effect that can literally drown you internally. When that happened, they took me off of the medication immediately, saying that it was more important to preserve my life than the lives of my babies. Once I was off the magnesium sulfate, there was nothing they could do to slow down my labor and I was rushed to the operating room. I woke up from an emergency c-section to see my tiny and fragile babies, Caleb and Julian, weighing 2 ½ pounds each. They were beautiful to me, but truthfully they didn’t look like babies. They were unfathomably skinny and I couldn’t hold them. Leaving the hospital without them was absolutely heartbreaking, especially as I saw other mothers from the nearby maternity ward gently carrying their new babies to their cars. We began what would become a 3 ½ month marathon of daily visits to the NICU where I was in “parenting limbo.” I was a parent, but had none of the duties or tasks most parents had – I had no control over how or when my babies ate, when they were held, even how often I could see them in the NICU. How did you cope with having your kids in the hospital? Having the boys in the hospital was one of the most challenging times in my life, but it was also an opportunity to come closer to the Savior to find comfort and strength and an eternal perspective. Hard times can be faith-building because we realize we’re not in control. Until then, my life had kind of gone as planned with work and everything else. Now, however, I realized I had absolutely no control and I had to put myself in the Lord’s hands. Within the twins’ first week of life, Caleb had to be sent to another hospital for surgery on his heart valve. The transfer was traumatic for all of us, and afterwards he was even sicker. Just as he was getting better, Julian suddenly developed an extremely serious stomach inflammation that could have led to permanent gastrointestinal damage and death. He was also transferred to the surgical center and immediately wheeled into surgery. The doctors who examined him said they were extremely worried about his chances of survival. As they took him away I didn’t know if I would see him again, alive. We cried and prayed and agonized while he was in surgery for far longer than they had estimated. But I will always remember that time because I’ve never felt closer to God. I knew God was comforting me and telling me everything was going to be all right. The sustaining power of the Holy Ghost was so real and strong I could almost see it surrounding me in the waiting room. Heavenly Father was there. The importance of being a mother and caring for children was impressed upon me so deeply; I realized that no burden was too impossible to carry in its name. Melissa Puente and Her Children When we finally found out that Julian was okay, my gratitude was inexpressible. My attitude started to change. I became friendlier with the nurses. I stopped feeling so panicked and anxious. I taped optimistic signs on my babies’ incubators that said “Mighty Warrior” and “Valiant Hero.” My children were indeed mighty warriors fighting for their lives, and no matter what the final outcome brought, I was privileged to guide and support them in whatever way I could. People started telling me that I seemed to be handling the situation really well. Other parents in the NICU came to me for advice and support. I stopped agonizing about how many days were left till we could bring the boys home, and instead tried to develop patience. As both of my kids needed blood transfusions because of all the tests they had to endure, several friends rallied to our support. I continued pumping breast milk, something I would do for nearly their whole first year. We had a few more ups and downs as Caleb struggled with his breathing and feeding and almost had to have surgery to get a tube placed in his stomach, and Julian went in for a 2nd stomach surgery, but on October 10th – 103 days after their birth – they were both home with us. I felt like throwing the world’s hugest celebration, but in the end we just spent the day cuddling in bed – something I had been dreaming about doing for weeks and weeks. Life was good. Two years later, my husband and I decided to try for a girl and we ended up getting pregnant with twins again, even though we tried really hard not to get pregnant with multiples. When we found out we were having another set of twins, it was really difficult because we were so scared from the first experience. But the second time around was much better—I’d learned a lot of things I needed to do differently with this second IVF twin-pregnancy and our second set of twin boys were born without issue. What is life like with two sets of twins? The first year was amazing—we had four kids under age three for a whole year. I had a nanny helping me 3-4 days a week and lots of help from my ward, but honestly I’ve never been happier. Things started to get really challenging when my older kids hit 2 1/2. Each child was developing more of a will and an opinion and I found myself yelling at my kids a lot. I realized there was a lot of strain and tension in our home that wasn’t there before. Melissa Puente and Her Family I don’t think it was anything out of the ordinary; a lot of people probably experience what we’ve experienced. But when I thought back to that time in the NICU and how grateful I was to even have these kids, I felt like I could do better as a parent. That helped me begin a journey to try to become a better mom. What inspired you to start your website, Learning Mommy? I’ve always loved the hymn, “Love at Home” and the idea that we can have bliss in home-life. I wanted to find ways to bring that feeling into our home. I started reading parenting books and writing insights on my family blog about things I was learning. Not long after I started this project, a woman in my twins group gave birth to twin boys via emergency C-section at 26 weeks just like I had. Tragically, her twins died within 48 hours of birth as she held them in her arms. Understandably, she was devastated—she had been undergoing fertility treatments for five years to become a mother. Hearing about her experience reminded me so much of my own experience and how things could have gone either way for us. But I did get to bring my boys home from the hospital and they’ve developed normally; my kids are truly living miracles in every sense of the phrase. That gave me the motivation to step it up and take my job of growing as a mother as seriously as I took my job of growing as an editor. So I started reading all the parenting books I could get my hands on—more than 60 so far (but I buy more every week!). Then I created a blog, Learning Mommy, as a way for me to share what I’m learning. There’s such a complete upheaval of life when couples start a family—when kids are small, it seems that they’ll always be with us and always be young. But the days of cuddling and crying and hugging and tantrums and everything else don’t last. Every day with our kids is a gift. What seeds are we planting now for our kids to take with them when they leave us? What makes a good parenting book, in your opinion? I choose books by getting recommendations from people I trust and reading Amazon reviews. There are some really amazing books out there. But, one problem I’ve found is that some books focus on one system that works in certain situations and with certain kids—but it doesn’t work well across the board. Or it works for a little while, and then kids get used to it and that system doesn’t work anymore. I try to read between the lines and look for basic principles. What kinds of principles are you learning that could work for all moms? Lots of books say the same things differently and there’s lots of overlap. I’ve actually identified about nine principles that come up a lot and have made a huge difference in our home. Interestingly, all the principles I’m finding start with a P, which helps me remember them! One is Play. Play is the way kids learn, how they connect with their parents, the language they speak. Play is all about being in the moment and having fun. I think as moms it’s sometimes hard for us to really play with our kids because we’re always preparing for what’s next—making dinner, doing the laundry—taking care of the things that need to get done. Kids are experts at living in the moment and it’s been fun to do that more–playing with them one-on-one or as a family. I’ve noticed that as I’ve made play a priority, my kids are happier and more responsive to me—and they get along better! Play is amazing—it’s like a magical tool. Another principle is the importance of Planning–shaping routines, being organized, creating dinner menus. In some ways it’s the antithesis of play; I find my household is happiest when I find a balance of living in the moment and planning with the big picture in mind. I also love the principle of Praise, as in thanks and gratitude. Our family has done a few service projects together recently and I’m seeing that kids can give people hope and love through service. I used to have this idea that young kids can’t do service projects, but I’ve been totally shocked at how wrong I was. My kids are so much better at serving than I am. When we go to a retirement home or a women’s shelter, people respond to them. They can put a smile on people’s faces in a way that adults just can’t. How have others reacted to your study project? When I shared my new parenting goals with my friends and with my twins group, I got a lot of mixed responses. The most common reactions were, “But you’re already doing such a good job—don’t be so hard on yourself,” or “They’re probably just going through a phase; they’ll grow out of it.” One LDS person said, “Don’t read those parenting books. Just go by the Spirit and read your scriptures.” I remember thinking that was the oddest advice, because I know prophets have counseled us to seek spiritual help while doing our physical best. I remember a story about an early church member asking Brigham Young for a Priesthood blessing to help him overcome an illness, but the man hadn’t applied any remedies or gone to a doctor because he thought his faith alone would heal him. Brigham Young told him, “That is very inconsistent with my faith. If we are sick, and ask the Lord to heal us, we need to do all that is necessary to be done. . . It appears consistent to me to apply every remedy that comes within the range of my knowledge, and [then] ask my Father in Heaven …to sanctify that application to the healing of my body.” That’s how I feel about parenting—we need to try to access information and resources available to us so the Spirit can work through that knowledge. How do you make quality time for your kids with everything else you’re involved in? One of my favorite books drives home the idea that when we are really thoughtful and purposeful about the way we use our time, we have enough time to do all the things that are important to us. I’ve really found that to be true. I have my two sets of twins who are aged 4 and 2 and I try to spend the bulk of my time with them; I also work part-time from home editing videos for the Church and I work on my blog. It’s really hard to juggle everything, for sure. It’s definitely not easy, but it’s really rewarding. Melissa Puente My amazing husband is really supportive and we decided to live close to his work so he can be home more. Getting extra help from him in the mornings and the evenings goes a long way. I edit when my older kids go to preschool and my babies are napping. Another way I’m able to do everything is to outsource my housework. A housekeeper comes in three days a week and does the laundry, the cleaning, some cooking. I also have really supportive friends–my kids will play at a friends’ house one afternoon and those kids will play at my house the next. I might make it sounds like it’s all perfect and neat and I have it all worked out, but I don’t. It’s a work in progress, but it’s manageable. I wasn’t really looking to work, but I took on a few small projects a year ago for the Church and they worked out so well that I’ve kept busy with freelance work since then. For me, working a little bit has been great and I felt like it was the right thing for me to do. I feel like I can make a real contribution. It’s been very rewarding. How has the Learning Mommy project affected your parenting overall? I’ve been amazed at how much I’ve learned. For some people it all seems to come really naturally, but for me it just doesn’t. I have good intentions, but I struggle. I spent so many years studying how to be a film editor—that was an important job, but being a mom is much more important than that. The biggest thing I’m learning is that parenting is a huge journey for both me and my kids. My kids are learning to master skills that are very difficult for them—like how to eat, how to walk, how to share, how to not be destructive when they’re mad. By realizing this is a process for them I know I need to dig deeper to try to find more patience to help them out on their journey. At the same time, I am also on a journey. My kids are learning how to control their anger and how to be patient—and so am I. We’re all learning on different levels, together. The more I learn how to control my temper and use my words and talk about things, the more they will too. Our home is totally different now, six months after I started my parenting project. My husband and I try to find the patience to teach our kids calmly when they do something wrong instead of yelling at them. In turn I’ve noticed they’re getting better about not yelling so much. They’re better at sharing and listening to each other. My husband and I become better and they become better too. That’s what parenting is about—a process of bringing out the best in all of us. At A Glance Name: Melissa Puente Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 33 Marital status: Married almost 13 years Children: 4-year-old twin boys, 2-year-old twin boys Occupation: Homemaker, TV editor Schools Attended: BYU Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “Love at Home” On The Web: www.learningmommy.com Interview by Lyndsey Payzant Wells.

Shu-Chih grew up in Taiwan, came to the United States by herself as a teenager and joined the Mormon Church. She had to overcome many obstacles, including family disapproval, living in a foreign country and raising three kids as a single mom. Shu-Chih is an accomplished artist and owns her own art school where she teaches a growing Chinese population in Irvine, CA. Can you share a couple of funny stories about coming to America? I came to Provo from Taiwan because I had an aunt there who had a restaurant and she needed some help. My mom felt it was better to be living with my aunt who could supervise us. At first I was only living with her for 6 months; we moved out to live on our own for three to four years. My aunt was not a Mormon, but a faithful Buddhist, who believed in doing good for others. She had a table for burning incense everyday. When Jenny, my sister and I, and my brother, came to America, people told us that it was hard for Americans to say your Chinese name. She told me, “just get an American name, that way it is easier for us and for them.” My sister picked out Jenny, because her name has a “J” in it, and I picked out Bessie. I was going by this name for a few years, until the 1st year of college, and one of my professors said, “Bessie, that is really an interesting name for a Chinese—do you know what Bessie means?” I said, “no, I thought there was a very famous movie called Bessie.” And she said, “no, they used to call a cow Bessie.” So I decided not to go by that anymore. My Chinese name means “lady of wisdom”; my mom picked it for me. When I found out about Bessie being a cow, I changed my name back to my original Chinese name, Shu-Chih. Shu-Chih Ho with Her Children When I moved here from Taiwan, my mom packed us with everything we needed: clothing, dried foods and toothpaste, enough to last us about 6 months. Then she would visit us and bring more. For some reason, the toothpaste ran out sooner than we expected. My sister and brother came to America first. So when I got here, my sister told me one morning, “This is American toothpaste, but you only need to use a little bit of it. Their flavor is very strong, so just use a little of it and that will take care of your whole brushing; you do not need a lot.” I said, OK, American, everything is a little bit different. So I used a little bit, maybe a little more. When I put it on, oh my goodness, it was so strong, like burning my mouth: “Boy, this is really strong.” We just went on for a while, even though it was kind of hard to brush. So one day, I wanted to know what was in this toothpaste to make it so strong. I read it and saw that it was for some muscle aching, to relieve the pain. I thought, what is going on here, are they talking about the muscle of my tongue? It didn’t really make sense. How it happened was this: my sister had run out of Taiwanese toothpaste, so she and my dad went to a supermarket. They looked for the tube and the minty smell, and thinking it looked like toothpaste, bought it. After I figured it out I told my sister, “Jenny, you have been using muscle relief for brushing your teeth.” It was like Ben Gay, or Icy Hot, muscle rub. Was it difficult to come to America by yourself? It was hard on the high school campus. When I grew up in Taiwan, back then, you could not talk to boys, or have a casual conversation with them. You had to be separate from them at school. One campus floor was for girls, and one for the boys. When we walked on campus you had to avoid the boys. If you did talk with a boy they would call you to the office and question you about your conversation. This was high school. When I came to America I was in high school. I found it so different on the campus in America. They were kissing. It was so embarrassing for me, I was so shocked that they could do that right in front of me. I always had to walk a different way if I saw my friends hugging or kissing; it was just very uncomfortable for me. I finished high school in a year and a half. I was in California at first and then Utah. I graduated from Provo High. Could you speak any English in high school? A little bit, but not that much. I remember that the outfits I wore were from Taiwan and I remember that people sensed that I was different. They would look at me and talk to their friends with their mouth covered. I knew they were talking about me, but I couldn’t say anything. There were some that would make fun of me. If I tried to say something, all the people would start laughing, but I never knew what they were talking about. Lunch time was the hardest. People would get into a group, but you do not know which group to go to, and even to order lunch, I did not know how to order it. They did not have any numbers to choose from. I knew how to say donuts and “chicken”; that was lunch. It was kind of tough. Other than that, we were thrilled to be in America. So much freedom! The way they teach is different: they are more interesting; they don’t have as many tests—like every day. It was just more fun to learn. Even though kids would take one hour to study for a test, I would take all day, just constantly checking the dictionary and trying to find out the meaning. Biology was really tough, even when I studied hard. I had to cook and study. I took English in Taiwan. Reading is easier for me, but saying it is hard. English teachers in Taiwan have a heavy accent. We did not practice using it; we mostly learned grammar. How did you find out about Mormonism? I was about 19 or 20 when I joined the Mormon church. In Taiwan, I had been raised to believe that God does not exist. My parents taught me that after this life, there is nothing. I remember, I began to question, “what is the purpose of life?” and I started getting depressed thinking that when this life is over, it is over. I was struggling with that idea for almost six months and I remember one day I just felt that I needed to pray about it and see if there really was a God, if I could find out who he was. I kind of forgot about that prayer and went on with life. But a few months later my friend gave me a Book of Mormon and he insisted that I read it with him, in Alma 32. When I was reading that chapter, I felt something very strong and different. I started to take the missionary lessons. This was when I was in Provo, in college. I had heard about the Mormon church when I lived in Taiwan, but never paid much attention because my parents did not want us to join any church or religion. At first I thought that I felt good while reading the Book of Mormon because the missionaries were so cute and kind. I was very frustrated when they told me that if I will pray about it I will know if the book is true. I knew there was a God, but the concept of Christianity, that someone would actually die for your sins, I just couldn’t understand that concept at all. I began fasting to know the truth and nothing happened. I fasted about three times and finally I felt that if I couldn’t find or receive an answer, I should just set it aside for a while. This was partly because my parents were very much against me taking the missionary discussions. However, the last time I fasted, I woke up in the morning and there was a very soft light that kind of shined through the wall and somehow I knew that was my answer, that what I was praying for was good, and not just good but was true. Ever since that time, I try to remember that feeling. Because it was very light and soft, it would be easy to forget about that spiritual feeling when in the midst of all the stress in the world. How soon did you get baptized after that experience? Almost a year later. I was waiting for my parents’ approval, so by the time I knew the church was true, I was waiting and waiting. I had to move to California. It was about a year when I finally decided that I was just going to go ahead with it. I was 21 years old then. But in my culture you are considered still a child if you live under your parents. I graduated from junior college and I was thinking, “I’m working now, I can survive on my own.” I just went ahead with the baptism, knowing it was considered a very bad thing to do in my family; I knew my parents would be very upset. However, I felt that if I didn’t get baptized, I would miss my chance. That was my decision, and even though I didn’t feel comfortable because of my parents, I knew it was right. Did you tell them before you got baptized or after? I asked them many times to be baptized, but they warned me almost everyday. They were still in Taiwan and every time I talked with them they asked, “you’re not baptized are you?” I always told them, “No, I’m not.” So, even after my baptism, I told them I was not baptized. I did not have the courage to tell them the truth. My mom found out because she saw the difference in me. She does not believe in God, but is sensitive to spiritual things. One day she just said to me, “You’re baptized, aren’t you?” And then I told her, “Yeah, I did it.” After that there was a big family conflict, and it was tough on me for almost a year after my baptism. My mom constantly wanted to change me; she was afraid I was going to be a Mormon with lots of kids and no money. She didn’t like that picture at all. I was still in California for about 6 months, but then my mom wanted me to come back to Taiwan to help her. She was going to retire from being a high school teacher and move to America. I went back, but It was really hard. If I wanted to go to church, I would have to escape; she would lock me in the room on Sunday, because she knew at a certain time I had to go to church. She would lock me in the house on Sunday and not let me go out. I remember one day I just escaped out the window. My mom had a strong will to protect her kids the best way she knew. We talk about that now; she knows that she won’t change me now, so she is more receptive. She has come to church with me when the Yale Branch, the Chinese branch opened. And she even participated in the Easter program. I had her read part of the Easter story. I just saw a great change in her heart. I can’t imagine she would join the church, because she has always believed that she has to depend on herself and no one else. I think the fear of relying on some higher source is very frightening to her. Did you take the missionary lessons in English or Chinese? The missionary lessons were in English. They couldn’t find a Chinese speaking missionary. But that helped me with English too. My English improved a lot after I joined the church. Before my baptism I always had a Chinese Book of Mormon and an English version. I would go back and forth to check out the meaning. I had a great desire to read the English one. Even though the translation in Chinese was good, some of the meaning you could not capture in Chinese. Even though vocabulary was hard for me I felt the English wording to be closer to me. I wanted to read it in English and not go back and check it in Chinese. After I was baptized, after I received the gift of the Holy Ghost, I could literally hear a voice helping me pronounce it. I thought, if this is the gift of the Holy Ghost, I am really liking this. It was a male voice and clear and slow. I couldn’t say it, but I could hear it. I definitely can tell I did not hear that before my baptism. Now I have gone back to read it in Chinese. I have been here 30 years, and I am teaching Sunday School in Chinese, so I have gone back to read some of that. Now I have to go back to the English Book of Mormon to understand the Chinese better. How did you help get the Chinese Branch going? We had a Chinese Sunday School going for a couple of years, and there were four families that really wanted to do something in Orange County, in the Irvine area. At that time the only two Chinese Branches were far away, and many Chinese Mormons didn’t want to travel that far. But when they stay locally to go to church, there is often a language barrier, or cultural barrier. They always felt the Spirit at church, but they didn’t feel they could serve as much. We wanted to see if there was a possibility to get together on Sunday and meet, because every time we got together we felt such a strong spirit and bonding. We wanted to have more than just Sunday School: more activities. We had been holding Chinese Sunday School for two years and we just wanted a branch. Before we got the Chinese Branch, we would go to the regular, English-speaking church meeting, and then later in the afternoon, we would have a one-hour Chinese Sunday School. We also had Asian family nights at Janet Wong’s house. That was going on for a couple of years before the branch was organized. I remember everyone was afraid that we didn’t have enough people or knowledge to set up a branch. But it all came together. The stake called a lot of returned missionaries to help us. The closest Chinese Branch was Hacienda Heights, about 45 minutes from my home, and the next one was in San Diego. I think the Church saw the needs of an Orange County Chinese Branch. We have about 35 families in the branch, and about 20 families come every week. Because the branch is small, for primary, young men’s and young women’s our kids go to another ward. We just have Sacrament meeting, Relief Society, Priesthood and Sunday School in our branch. Activities are important for our branch. Many of the Chinese families interested in Mormons feel better coming to our activities than church on Sunday. There are many Christian Chinese churches here. But many have the wrong idea about the Mormons. It is still a lot of work, just reaching the Chinese people in America. Many of the other churches teach them incorrect principles about Mormons and we want to let them know what we really believe. How did you start your business of an art school? I really had a passion for fine arts and I was doing a painting to enter a competition at South Coast Plaza. One of my mom’s friends saw my paintings, was very excited, and she asked me if I could teach her daughters. That was the beginning. I started with two, and after I was married I was teaching 10 to 15 students. We needed more finances so we prayed, and every year that number would double. I was teaching about 70 students. I had started at a dining table, living room, and then garage, and then a small studio. The large studio was 5000 square feet and I had 200 students, which happened in less than 8 years. Now I have 100; I cut back and moved to my home to teach. I have one assistant now, but this is better for me. I can watch my kids. I lose privacy, but it is better to have family close, especially since I have ended up a single mom. Raising three kids on my own in Orange County would almost be impossible. I appreciate what my ex-husband did setting up my studio and supporting my dream. I think you know that scripture, God will not give you more trials than you can handle? I find it so true. When I first got baptized, and thought I might get kicked out of the house, that was scary. Then when I got divorced, to raise three kids, it was kind of scary. But I learned that the Lord always prepares a way for you, ahead of time, already. Just do what is right, and the Lord takes care of the rest. Knowing who God is and His love for me, has helped me to know that I am not just being alive on earth, but there is a divine purpose and mission for me in eternity. The gospel has helped me to know the dream in my heart and teach me how to get there, and now it is my duty and calling to share with my people what I know and have learned. At A Glance Name: Shu-Chih Ho Location: Irvine, CA Age: 44 Marital status: Divorced 8 years Children: 18, 14, and 11 Occupation: Artist and Art Instructor Schools Attended: Provo High, California State University Long Beach and Fullerton Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “If You Could Hie To Kolob” On The Web: www.irvineart.net Interview by Deila Taylor.

Elaine Bradley is the drummer for the rock band Neon Trees, which released their first full length album, Habits, in 2010. Their first single “Animal” has climbed to #13 on the Billboard Hot 100 and #1 on the Alternative Rock Chart. Elaine discusses her journey towards spiritual honesty as a rebellious child and then as a missionary in Germany and now as a musician fulfilling her life’s artistic passions. How did you get started in music? I’m the youngest of seven kids so I always had older siblings playing music. At a very early age I was exposed to cool music like Led Zeppelin and Depeche Mode. We enjoyed singing as a family, especially all of the siblings, and we used to sing Depeche Mode harmonies while doing the dishes. One of my earliest musical memories was from kindergarten. I remember sitting on the bus staring out of the window and singing to myself “You’re The Inspiration” by Chicago. I had an older brother who I really looked up to. I thought he was the coolest thing on earth. When I was seven years old he gave me a tape of Led Zeppelin 1. I listened to that tape and loved it in part because he gave it to me but also because it was actually great. Around this time I got into the idea of drumming, I think maybe because it was aggressive. I was so drawn to it. I would drum wooden spoons and beat on pots and pans, using the pots as the drums and the lids as the cymbals. I always flipped through the Sears catalog to look at the drum sets. I tirelessly begged my parents for drums. When I started band in the sixth grade, my parents got me the Sears drum set. It was a big commitment for my parents, but as far as sets go it was very chintzy. The whole next year I beat that thing to crap. It was destroyed by the end of the year. The Band, "Neon Trees" That’s when they figured out I was serious enough about playing the drums that they could afford to actually invest a little money in it. On my thirteenth birthday they surprised me with a Tama drum set. When my birthday rolled around my mom told me that she and my dad were going to give me a $100.00 clothes spree at the mall. I was a little disappointed because I really wanted a new drum set but I tried to make the best of it. As we were driving to the mall, we got off of the freeway, and my mom turned left instead of right to go to the mall. I said, “Mom, you just turned the wrong way. The mall is the other way.” She said, “ Oh, I didn’t realize. I don’t know what I was thinking.” When I suggested she turn around, she said, “Oh, I missed the turn!” She was making all of these excuses that were really believable for her personality. I did not catch on. When she pulled into a parking lot, I thought, “Finally, we’re turning around!” It still didn’t dawn on me. She pulled in, parked and said, “Ok, we’re here.” There we were at the music store where she surprised me with a real drum set. I was shocked. She should have gotten an Oscar for that performance. Needless to say, I get my humor and performance gene from my mom. Have you always enjoyed performing? Yes, I’ve always liked performing. You know some people are just naturally shy? I am not. I’ve been afraid of things in my life but that never stopped me from doing what I wanted to do. I’ve felt fear, I’ve felt self doubt and I’ve thought, “Oh, I hate how I look doing this,” or “I’m nervous to do that because people will judge me,” but I don’t take those thoughts too seriously. This courage I have is a gift. I think an important part of facing my fears is knowing my boundaries. It’s about knowing what I’m good at and what I’m not good at and being okay with that. Elaine Bradley and Her Husband As far as performing musically, I’ve been in bands, whether real or imaginary, since the fourth grade. I used to draw pictures of my imaginary bands with names like The Rockets. In sixth grade I was into New Kids on the Block, Another Bad Creation, and all of that music. I started a band with two of my friends; it was a rap/pop group. We used to sing and dance our original songs on the playground. So, performing is perpetual for me. It just always was. In high school, I moved to a suburb of Chicago called Crystal Lake and made some new friends. One of my new friends and I decided that it would be awesome to form a rock band. I was going to sing, and he was going to play the guitar, and he knew somebody who played the bass. We had our line up. I ended up singing, playing the drums and guitar at various points while I was in that band. Eventually, I became the guitarist front woman, and we toured around for about five years. How did Mormonism fit in with your musical pursuits growing up? Growing up, I never liked being Mormon. I remember sitting in Primary and thinking, “I wish I didn’t know this. Why was I born into this family? My friends are so much luckier than I am because they don’t have all of these weird rules.” I was a rebellious kid. I remember singing “I Hope They Call Me On a Mission” and thinking it was really preposterous because I didn’t want to be called on a mission. That said, I think I felt that way because I knew that the gospel was true. There was this nagging feeling that it was true mixed with my desire for worldly fame and fortune. Growing up, I felt within me this collision of two distinct worlds. I didn’t really make peace with that tension until I was 21 and maybe even to a certain extent until recently. I remember having a conversation with my mom in high school. We were driving in the car, and she said to me, “I know you want to be a rock star but what if Heavenly Father were to say that’s not what He wants for you?” I told her point blank that I wouldn’t listen. I wasn’t willing. I had the erroneous thought that Heavenly Father did not want me to be happy. Whatever I wanted, He would tell me to do something else just to spite me. Somehow I got the impression that Heavenly Father was laughing at me from heaven. So in response to that fear, I just ignored Him. I always knew that God was there. The gospel made sense to me and spoke to me on a certain level but at the same time it made me angry. I wanted to be ignorant. During high school one of my biggest complaints was that people in the church were not cool. It was very disappointing for me that most of my friends were outside of the church, and most of the people in the church were people I didn’t want to hang out with. Of course, this complaint was just a cover for my fears about God judging me. In general, it was a really difficult time. Add to this the fact that I wanted to do drugs. For some reason I romanticized it. It might be because I had older siblings who were kind of getting into it, and these were people I idolized. I went down the wrong path and stopped thinking about God and the church because I knew that if I did it would mean something, and I would have to change something. When I was 21 years old I started dating a guy who didn’t drink and do drugs. He didn’t even swear. We were taking a walk one night, and I said, “Are you religious? I notice that you don’t do these things.” He didn’t know that I was Mormon or had a Mormon background. He told me he was Christian and then said something pivotal. “I think it’s important to have a personal relationship with God.” And boom! It seriously felt like an effectual door was opened in my mind and clarity and honesty came rushing through. I realized at that moment that I was not being honest with myself. His comment was a lightening bolt straight to my heart. It was one of those moments when everything changed. I thought, “I don’t know what God wants for me. I have no idea what the truth is right now, and I’ve got to be honest about that. I’ll get some information from my parents about Mormonism, and I’ll start there. And if it’s not there, I’ll go somewhere else. Mormonism is what I have from my youth, I’m going to examine it, and I’m going to be honest with God. If this is what He wants me to do, then I’ll do it.” This was really the chance for me to decide for myself. I definitely think that Heavenly Father knows me and understands what I need. To be told what to do and to respond to that doesn’t really work with the kind of personality I have. I need to know for myself. I need to make my own path. I think I could have made it a better path if I had chosen to do so, but I’m grateful for the things I learned because of it. God prepared a way for me in spite of my rebelliousness. Elaine Bradley and Her Husband I really started learning about the gospel after that conversation with my boyfriend. That was also at the height of my band’s tour schedule, which involved a lot of partying. When I had this spiritual realization I quit drinking, and I quit doing drugs. I just quit it all. Because of some unrelated tensions, the band just kind of fell apart, and we called it quits. I realized that if there ever were a time that I could go on a mission it would be now. But here’s the thing: Since I was a kid, I did not want to serve a mission. It did not sound good to me. At all. Ever. When I would think about going on a mission, I would automatically think, “No. I don’t want to.” But there is this overarching theme of honesty in my life. So I thought, “Okay, honestly, is a mission something I should do?” I needed to get myself out of the way so that I could make a proper, informed decision. So for months I prayed, “Heavenly Father, help me to want to know if I should go on a mission.” I did not want to go on a mission, and I did not want to know if I should go on a mission. Knowing is condemnation, and I didn’t want to deal with that. Yet, I continued to pray every night, “Help me to know what is right and to be okay with whatever answer you give me. Help me to want to go.” After a couple of months, I found that my prayers changed to, “I can see myself being okay with a mission. Help me to know if that’s something I should do.” I finally got to the point where I thought, “You know, I could just get mission papers and fill them out and then pray about it and then turn them in if the answer is ‘yes.’” I was open enough to that option to do that. So I went to the church and started asking the bishop for some mission papers. I didn’t even finish my sentence, and he said, “Oh, you’re going to go on a mission?” And immediately I said, “Yeah!” From then on I was committed to going. I never wavered after that moment. I went on my mission to Frankfurt, Germany, which is where I met one of my best friends, Bryce Taylor. Bryce and I never served together, though. We met once at a missionary activity, and his first memory from that day was of me doing a kick flip on a skateboard in a skirt. Some of the office elders had some of the music I made before and during my mission. I had a guitar in my apartment for ten months and the mission president let me record some acoustic stuff for him. One day, the office elders had Bryce listen to my music, and he loved it. He said, “Oh my gosh, I’ve got to get ahold of this sister.” I was scheduled to return home around this time, so Bryce got permission from the office to call me the week before I left. He said, “Hey, you don’t really know me but this is Elder Taylor. Yeah, I just wanted to say that we should play together. I play in a band at home, and I think you should come to Utah.” At the time I was toying with the idea of going to BYU, but I didn’t really think he was serious. So many people say, “Oh, you play music? Let’s get together.” I really didn’t know how seriously to take him. Six weeks after that phone call Bryce came home from the mission and proceeded to call me every Sunday to ask me when I was coming out to Utah. His hounding was seriously half the reason I decided to even apply to BYU. After you returned from your mission, how did you get involved with Neon Trees? I applied to BYU, got accepted, and moved out to Provo. Bryce and I started playing some music together. He would come over and jam with me in my basement—he played the guitar, and I played the drums. It sounded really cool, and we realized we couldn’t just keep it in the basement; we had to form a band. So we called a friend of his and got him to play bass. We became this three piece in Provo called Another Statistic. We started playing with another local band called Neon Trees. I remember looking at them and thinking, “Wow, they are really talented. I want to play in their band.” After three years, Another Statistic came to an end because we all had different levels of commitment. I knew I wanted to play music professionally. I didn’t want to sit around Provo and play once a month. Around the same time, Neon Trees was going through the same struggle. Two of the members–Chris and Tyler–wanted to get serious and the other guys weren’t willing to put forth the effort to do it, so they parted ways. It was so harmonious and so fateful that right when Another Statistic was fading, Neon Trees split. So Tyler and Chris invited me and another musician, Branden, to join them and this harmony was born. Elaine Bradley How do you navigate being an active LDS woman within the music scene? Honestly, there’s not much tension in navigating the music scene as a Mormon. You see so many bad after school specials or seminary videos where the kids say, “Come on, everyone is doing it!” But it’s not like that at all. The idea that drugs are synonymous with rock n’ roll is an assumption and an unnecessary connection. Not to say that rock n’ roll musicians don’t do drugs. Many do. I’m just saying that it’s not necessary to do drugs in order to produce good music and to be successful in this business. Actually, I think the drinking scene is far more prevalent than the drug scene because it’s more socially acceptable. It’s everywhere. Liquor companies sponsor parties and shows all of the time. I think it helps that everybody in our band is Mormon. Granted, everybody in the band is on a different rung of the spiritual ladder. We don’t make any pretensions about how righteous we are or how many mistakes we may or may not make. Within the band we try to withhold judgment from each other because life is not easy. With that said, we’re all return missionaries, we have all agreed—both as a business and as friends—that we are not going to party in the band. We don’t do that on tour, we don’t do that in the van, we don’t do that outside of the van, it happens nowhere around the band, anytime, ever. It’s a business decision, but there’s definitely a moral strength and comfort that comes from it. It’s never a temptation because we’ve already agreed. Because of the music we make, people are always surprised to find out that we’re Mormon. I think that’s because we don’t approach music from a Mormon standpoint. We’re not a “Mormon” rock band; we’re a rock band that happens to be Mormon. It’s not possible as Mormons, though, to completely ignore your background. For example, sometimes the spirituality of Tyler’s lyrics shines through. On the other hand, we can write unapologetic pop songs that have nothing to do with religion and be totally okay with it because we don’t have a religious platform. We are simply four people who grew up with a certain belief system who also want to make good music. I think the two can be separated. With that said, I definitely think about how my actions represent Mormonism—I think it would be irresponsible and sloppy of me to assume that I don’t have an effect on people. Since we’ve been gaining popularity and doing really well on the radio, I’ll get Facebook messages from people who say, “Hey, I found out that you’re Mormon. That’s really awesome because I’m Mormon. You’re a really good example to me.” I love that. Those are the things I think about when making personal decisions about how I want to behave and what kind of image I want to give off. I really try to include God in my decisions about music and the band. I ask Him to open doors or close doors as necessary. I kind of keep an open heart about it. Before, I was too afraid to talk to God because I didn’t want to get a “no” answer. I think I’ve learned through my life’s experiences to be more honest with Heavenly Father. I used to think of praying as something that I had to be in the mood for or that I had to say just the right thing. I felt like I couldn’t tell Him that I was scared. Now, I tell Him that I’m scared but I want to do the right thing. I think that was a step that I was definitely leaving out before. I didn’t think I could pray because I didn’t know what to say. It’s hard to have that personal relationship with God if you can’t be honest with Him. I’m still figuring that out. In recent years I think I’ve truly taken that to heart. Even before I think I always kind of reserved some special part of me that I wouldn’t share with God because either I was ashamed of it or I was afraid of it. Even in just the last year I’ve learned how to be more honest. I’m sure I’ll say the same thing next year—I’ll be even more honest then than I am now. It’s a process. It’s getting to know somebody. Learning how to trust somebody with your deepest, darkest most special thoughts and feelings. At A Glance Name: Elaine Bradley Location: Provo, UT Age: Eternal Marital status: Happily married since January. Occupation: Musician (drums/backing vocals for Neon Trees) Schools Attended: BYU graduate. BS Public Health, German minor Languages Spoken at Home: English primarily, sometimes German with my husband Favorite Hymn: “Oh Savior Thou Who Wearest A Crown” On The Web: www.neontrees.com Interview by Krisanne Hastings. Photos from neontrees.com.

Sydney Young has five children, but she has never been pregnant. In this interview, Sydney describes her journey through four open adoptions and the assumption of guardianship over one teenager. She exemplifies devoted stewardship over children who have not been birthed to her, but who have been sealed to her. When did you discover having children would not be easy for you? When we started trying to have children we knew within a year and a half there was a fertility problem. Luckily, we didn’t spend that long on the infertility rollercoaster. Doctors told us right away we would need either to go through an invasive procedure to conceive or adopt if we wanted to have children. For us at that time, adoption was much more affordable, as it was half the cost of medical procedures. We went through the process of getting approval to adopt while we lived in Utah. Then we moved when my husband, Dave, started medical school in Missouri in 2001. We updated our home study for adoption placement when we got there. Sometimes people make assumptions or say things that can be hurtful to couples without children. Was that your experience? When we lived in Utah, people would flat out ask us when we were going to have kids. That was hard; it’s not like we weren’t trying. In Missouri people were less invasive, but I was more lonely. It seemed that everyone around us already had kids, and they made friends with other people who already had kids, so I had a hard time making friends. One time we went to a school function, where there was a woman who was very pregnant. Her husband was a year ahead of mine in school and we began talking. We joked about how small the town was and how there was nothing to do. She said, “It’s so boring, so I just got pregnant again.” Dave and I turned around and left. I went home and cried and cried. Looking back, I was depressed during that time and didn’t realize it. I just wondered why I took things more personally than everyone else. It wasn’t a good time for me. Maddy, Sydney, Dave, Jordan, Jamie and Cooper What was the anticipation like as you waited for a birth mother to choose you? I worked as an office manager for a physical therapy center in town and Dave studied. Every day when I came home I’d check the answering machine to see if we had a call from our social worker. There never was one. Finally, on December 6, 2001 I was at home alone on my lunch break and there was a message. When I called the social worker back, he said he needed to talk to both Dave and me; I told him I’d head up to school, find Dave, and call him back. It took me forever to track Dave down at his school because we didn’t have cell phones. We went home and called him back and he said he had good news: we’d been picked by a birth mom. The social worker had been there when the birth mother had selected us and was able to tell us some of the things she liked about us–we liked to travel, we sounded fun, and she liked how we’d taken turns talking about each other in our letter to prospective birth moms. We also met one of her requirements: we were both returned missionaries. She called us the “Scooby-Doo couple” because we had written in our letter about how our families were really into Scooby-Doo. The birth family contacted us. The next step in the adoption process was a face–to-face meeting. I was so nervous to meet them, I felt like it was an interview. What if they didn’t like us? I finally came to the realization that if things did work out and her baby was placed with us, this might be the only time I would get to meet the birth mom, and I wanted to have something to tell the baby about his or her ‘tummy mommy’. That thought helped calm me down some. Dave’s dad was adopted. He waited until after his parents died to look up his birth mom. It meant so much to him just to know where he came from and to make the connections. The birth family was LDS so we met at the local stake center. When we pulled up to the building, I felt like I was going to puke. We went in, met with the social worker for a few minutes and then he took us in to meet the birthmother. She had brought her mom, who is now just Grandma M. to our family. We spent a couple of hours talking and getting to know this amazing family. Although I felt like the meeting was an interview to see if they liked us in person, they were very sure about placing with us and just wanted to meet us. It kind of threw me. For example, Grandma M asked if we had a crib. I told her we hadn’t gotten one yet, I couldn’t have it just sitting around empty! She said, “Isn’t it exciting, you can get one now!” We had gotten a playpen/bassinet when we were approved, just in case we had a last minute adoption. And we had purchased a car seat/stroller combo. Before we had moved to Missouri I had been working part time at the Gap. I spent almost every penny I earned on kids clothes. I had two full tubs, one of girl clothes and one of boy clothes. They wanted to know the names we had picked out so when the baby was born they’d know what to call it (she didn’t know if it was a boy or a girl at that point). They really opened us up to open adoption. We fell in love with the birth family, and realized they weren’t scary, that they had this child’s best interest in heart. How lucky is the child that has extra people who love her? We hope by having open adoptions it will be a little easier on the children, so they won’t have so many questions about why they are, the way they are. When we were leaving Dave asked if he could touch the birthmother’s belly. She had been hoping we’d ask and said yes. I got to touch her belly, too, which was neat, but to be honest I was a little jealous in a selfish kind of way because I had never been pregnant. She was due on January 21st, and we waited to tell our families until we went to Utah for Christmas, and they had a shower for us. After Christmas the waiting began. I started training someone to take over my job in the hopes that this adoption worked out. But they knew there was a chance I’d be staying, too. We didn’t tell anyone at church or school about the adoption, but they had to know at work that I was planning on quitting when the baby came. January 21st came and went. We didn’t hear anything. I couldn’t stand it any longer, and on the 24th I broke down and called our social worker. He went ahead and called and found out she was going to be induced the next day. At 10:55 a.m. on January 25th, nine months to the day we were first approved for adoption, we got a call from our social worker saying our baby had been born at 10:39 a.m. He said she had brown hair, chubby cheeks, and her birth mom’s nose. She opened her eyes right away. Maddy, our daughter, loves to hear the story about Scooby-Doo on the TV in the delivery room and how she looked right in that direction. She knows she has her tummy mommy’s nose. We went down to the hospital two days later. Her birthmother had already signed the paperwork terminating her parental rights. Maddy was all ours. Her birth family had asked to be there for placement. It’s amazing how you can be so happy and so sad at the same time. The birth mother passed Maddy from her arms right into mine. There were a lot of tears, and it was a day we’ll never forget. We became parents. I became a mother. On our fifth wedding anniversary, August 16th, 2002, we gathered in the Nauvoo temple with Maddy and three grandmas, one her birth grandmother, so she could be sealed to us. The second child to join your family, Jordan, is African-American. For some families it is a difficult decision to adopt children of another race. What did you feel you needed to consider when deciding to become an interracial family? Did you use any specific techniques to make sure Jordan felt completely included in his new family and never “different”? When Maddy turned one, we were approved to adopt again. We knew we were moving to Detroit at that point so we knew because of the demographics in Detroit, the baby would probably be African-American. We put a lot of thought into our decision and did a lot of research about adopting trans-racially. I remember one story about a black woman who had been adopted by a white family. She said she felt they accepted her as a member of the family, but not as a black member of the family. I want our children to be accepted and loved, to feel secure, but to know we acknowledge their heritage. We have made an effort to buy books that show diversity, purchase dolls that are black, have pictures of Jesus with black children. We have family members that make an effort too. Sydney Young and Her Family When more babies were available, LDS Family Services in Detroit processed more adoptions than they do now. A lot of babies from Detroit were adopted by families in Utah. Our social worker commented once that she felt like one of the purposes of those children coming into Utah homes was to open people’s eyes and hearts to the fact that we are all the same. My mom has black grandchildren. My nieces and nephews have cousins that have brown skin. That’s just the way it is. We haven’t had any negative comments from our families. They’ve been very supportive. Sometimes African-Americans are uncomfortable with white families adopting black children. Did you ever encounter disapproval from people in the African-American community? We had a lot of positive comments. Although we never had any negative comments, I could just tell if someone disapproved. I would go into public places in Detroit and know who approved and who didn’t. Do you sense that there are white people who don’t approve of white families with black children? Yes, definitely. It goes both ways. To me it seems like that attitude is more common outside the Church than inside the Church. We’ve had really positive comments here in Utah. We definitely get noticed when we’re out and about. Fortunately families with black children are becoming more prevalent here. As Jordan has gotten older, has he noticed he is different? Jordan was just starting to realize he looked different than us when we adopted our second son Cooper in 2008. Cooper is also African-American. I know Jordan loves having someone else in the family that looks like him. We’d like to find them a mentor, a young man, hopefully a return missionary that can help them in dealing with the issues that will come from growing up black in a while family. As much as I don’t like to admit it, from all the reading and research I’ve done, our children most likely won’t feel like they fit in completely with the black world, or the white one. But we hope by joining playgroups (there is a great one here in Utah) and introducing them to other black children adopted into white families, they can find friends who are in the same situation they are. After adopting Maddy, Jordan, and Cooper, you were joined by a teenage son. How did Jaime join your family? Jaime joined our family when we moved to Utah in 2009. He was sixteen. He had been in our ward in Michigan. Jaime’s mom passed away when he was twelve. Dave was his Sunday school teacher and then his Young Men’s leader. Dave’s callings in the Church followed Jamie as he got older. Jaime started spending more time with us. He would come over after church and to all the kids’ birthday celebrations. Dave would take him to see ‘guy’ movies that I had no interest in seeing! We brought Jaime out for Cooper’s sealing a few months before we were moving, to show him what Utah was like and show him around. We really wanted him to move with us. We gave him the chance to come live with us and he chose to come. We have guardianship. We didn’t adopt him because we didn’t want to disrupt his past family ties. His mom was temple worthy, so he wants to be sealed to her. Jamie with the Younger Children The guardianship has worked out really well. It’s been great. He’s so great with the younger kids! I think for Jaime it was an easier transition because we weren’t trying to take away his past from him. Everyone in our family has a ‘tummy mommy’, that’s what we call it, so he just fit right in. We’ve had our struggles and learning moments with him. We’ve had a crash course in ‘teenager’! But overall, it’s been really, really good. He earned his Eagle Scout award and his high school diploma. Now he is taking a missionary preparation class at Utah Valley University and is preparing to serve a mission this fall. We are so proud of him! A lot of times adoption can be an emotional rollercoaster. Did you ever have a bad experience as you went through the adoption process? In between Jordan and Maddy we had a failed placement. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through. In 2003, we had moved to Detroit and one night I got the feeling our social worker was going to call us the next day. The next day our social worker did call. He said we’d been matched with a birth mom. We were excited; we knew about the baby for a couple of weeks before she delivered. She was born on Thanksgiving Day. We named her Sophia and brought her home two days later. She was so tiny, not even six pounds. We chose to do an “at risk” placement. This means we brought Sophia home before her birthmother had terminated her parental rights in court. A week later we got another call from the social worker: Sophia’s birthmother had changed her mind and the social worker was coming to get her. I knew it could happen, but I hadn’t internalized it. It devastated me. At first I just felt sorry for myself. Dave felt sorry for Sophia and what kind of life she was going to have. It took me a while to come around to that. It was hard to grieve for her. It’s not like having a baby die. LDS families believe if a baby dies, they will be with the baby again. This baby will never be ours again, we will never know how she is or what she is doing. The fast Sunday after we lost her everyone was getting up to bear their testimonies in Sacrament meeting. People were saying how thankful they were for this and that. I was so bitter. Then I had the thought, “But I’m here at church. I’m still here.” It was a real confirmation to me of my testimony, that I believe the gospel is true no matter what happens. Your youngest daughter, Sara, was a surprise. How did that happen? In 2008, Cooper’s birth mom had shown up at the hospital in Detroit and asked to place her baby. She was worried we, as his adoptive parents, would hate her because she wanted to give him up. She was blown away that we wanted to meet her and let her take pictures, that we were so grateful to her and happy to have Cooper. Nineteen months later she showed up to give birth again and asked to place another baby: Sara. She told LDS Family Services that she had placed a baby with them the year before, and the social worker called us to see if we’d be interested in taking Cooper’s sister. We had moved to Utah and weren’t even looking to adopt when we got that call December 21st 2009. Baby Sara Did you hesitate to take Sara? I didn’t. But we had just bought a house, so financially we knew it would be difficult since there are adoption fees. The other times we adopted we were financially prepared because we had been planning on it. But it worked out. It was a miracle financially. Dave’s work had just changed the way he was paid and the money we needed was just dropped into our laps. We told the kids on Christmas Eve in a special letter from Santa that a new sister was coming. Cooper and Sara’s birthmother is happy they can be together in the same family. When you were sealed to Sara, it was the fourth time having a child sealed to you! What was it like going to the temple to be sealed to each of your children? Just like Maddy, Sara was sealed to us on our wedding anniversary. I remember bearing my testimony once and saying, “No offense to people who have kids born in the covenant, but being sealed is a sweet perk! It’s awesome!” I almost wish everyone could do it because it’s a really neat experience, especially for older kids. Maddy remembered Cooper’s sealing and now she remembers Sara’s sealing too. She got to have a temple recommend because she was eight. She was really excited. There’s a quote that says, “Adoption is about stewardship, not ownership.” I love it! Having our kids sealed, I don’t feel like we cut them off from their birth families, but that we’ve added their birth families to our family. We are all stewards of our children. We don’t own them. They are all Heavenly Father’s children. The sealing power is not going to cut off their extended family–it’s like we’re all this big huge family. I would love to do their birth families’ family history. What’s the hardest part now? Right now I’m having a hard time finding time for me. But these kids will only be little for a while and then they’ll be in school. Life right now is crazy, but it’s a good crazy. It’s amazing, I can’t imagine Sara not being part of our family, and it’s amazing how quickly I felt that way, even though we weren’t planning on her. We feel complete. We feel full. Life turns out completely different than you planned, but sometimes it’s way better than you planned. At A Glance Name: Sydney Young Location: Utah Age: 38 Marital status: Married 13 years Occupation: Mother Schools Attended: Ricks College, Utah Valley University Favorite Hymn: “O My Father” Interview by Marintha Miles. Photos by Christina Dixon, Cortney Finlayson and Cassandra Pierce.

Erin has loved being theatrical since she was a little girl. She had her first agent at age thirteen, and, after graduating from BYU, she moved to Los Angeles. As a working stage and film actor in L.A., Erin reflects on the challenges and joys of her business. How did you get involved with performing? When I was maybe five or six years old my mom and dad noticed that I had a flair for being theatrical so they signed me up for dance and piano lessons. My piano teacher discovered that I could sing, so I would sing and practice my theatrics with her. When I was seven, I was in a high school production of The King and I. That was my first experience being on stage, and I just fell in love with it. I felt like I was in this other world. The audience was completely dark but everything on stage was light. I was creating this entirely new world that I had never experienced before. To me it was very magical–it took me to another place. I’ve always been very imaginative; when I was younger I would pretend to be the girl from the book The Island of the Blue Dolphins. I was always pretending and dressing in funny clothes. I really loved to put myself in different situations and new worlds. I think the idea of becoming somebody else and going somewhere else was really appealing to me as a kid. Erin McKay From a Recent Shoot for ELIZA Magazine I continued with theater all through high school and also did some TV and film as well. I got an agent when I was thirteen and did a couple of independent films because there were quite a few that would come through my hometown of Portland, Oregon. I was really blessed to have so many opportunities around me and to have parents who always pushed me to be involved and to use my talents. Growing up, did you know that performing was something you would do professionally? No, I didn’t. In fact, when people asked me as a kid, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” I would say, “A horse jockey.” I was obsessed with horses as a little girl; my favorite movies growing up were Wild Hearts Can’t Be Broken, The Man From Snowy River, and The Black Stallion. I even took horseback riding lessons. I remember hearing people talk about the fact that horse jockeys had to be small. I thought, “I’m small. I can be a horse jockey!” After high school, I went to Brigham Young University and wasn’t really sure what I was going to major in. I knew that I definitely wanted to continue with theater and singing. I kind of fell into the acting program there, and the more I got involved the more serious I became about it. I realized that I could do this as a profession. Around this time I landed the lead in a film called Don’t Look Under the Bed. I was working with people who had been in the business for many, many years, and working with them really instilled a lot of confidence in me. I thought, “Hey, I can carry a movie. I’ve never really done this before but I think I can do it.” Erin McKay with Patrick Page in "The Pleasure of His Company" at the Old Globe in San Diego It’s such a hard business to succeed in, though. When I watch commercials and episodic TV I see a lot of friends I’ve worked with or met on auditions. I get so excited when I see them because it’s such a hard business to be in. I always think, “Yay for you!” Success in this business is a combination of working your butt off, having really good luck, and being talented. Because success is a combination of so many different factors, there are a lot of really talented actors who don’t even have agents and never audition. It’s so much about being in the right place at the right time. In L.A. there are so many different levels of success. There are people who are working actors, and that’s considered successful because they’re working. Then there are actors who star in huge blockbuster movies and get stopped on the street. I think both of these types of actors are successful. As for the person starring in huge blockbusters–they either have really awesome representatives or they’re really lucky. It’s like the stars have to align just perfectly. What are your most prominent roles in stage and film? My most prominent stage roles have been playing Johanna in Sweeney Todd at PCPA TheatreFest and then when I played Jessica Poole in The Pleasure of His Company at the Old Globe Theatre in San Diego opposite Patrick Page (a well-known Broadway actor). Filmwise, my most prominent role so far has probably been the lead role in the Disney film Don’t Look Under the Bed, and then I also had the leading role in two independent films, one that shot in Utah (Singles 2nd Ward) and the other in Austria (The Errand of Angels). I was also a lead in an indie film that is just coming out now that was shot in Oklahoma and based on a true story–Heaven’s Rain. Erin McKay on the Set of "Heaven's Rain" with Costar Mike Vogel Are you working as an actor full time? Currently, yes! I am playing Siobhan McKenna on ABC’s General Hospital. Did you move to L.A. right out of college? Yeah. I graduated from BYU in 2002 and got married at the end of the year in December. My husband, Carson, and I moved out to L.A. in January of 2003. Do you audition regularly for film and stage roles? Because of my General Hospital schedule, I don’t have as much time now. But yes, usually when I’m not currently working on something, I’m super busy auditioning for film and television roles. Performing in front of others requires a great amount of vulnerability. How do you manage this? As an adult I get nervous every now and then when I’m in front of the camera or when I go to auditions. I get more nervous to perform now than I ever did as a kid. I think this is because as an adult I put a lot more pressure on myself. I don’t remember ever getting nervous when I was younger. When I was in elementary school I had the opportunity to sing the national anthem at the Portland Trail Blazer games a few times. I remember my mother standing with me near the announcer’s desk. They would say, “Please stand to hear Erin Chambers sing the national anthem,” and she would be freaking out. She was so nervous for me. She would say, “Are you nervous? Are you nervous?” and I would say, “No. I’m not nervous. But you’re going to make me nervous if you keep talking like that!” I think as a kid I didn’t really have a clear idea about how scary these situations were. I see a lot of kids–like my nieces and nephews–that have no fear at all. Really, being vulnerable is just a part of my career, and it’s a very difficult thing. Even though I’ve been acting for quite a few years, it’s something I’m still learning how to do every day. I remember one day when I read something nasty someone had written about me online, and I sobbed for hours. It killed me. As an actor, I’ve trained myself to be open and vulnerable and so when things like that happen, it can really crush me. It can really kill me. I’ve had to develop a really strong assurance that those opinions don’t matter. It does not matter what people like that think. All that matters is how I feel about myself, how my family and the people I care about feel about me and how my Heavenly Father feels about me. I have to remind myself that if I feel good about what I’m doing, it doesn’t matter what anybody else thinks. What are the challenges of being LDS and an actor? I’m constantly learning about who I am as a Mormon in this business. I’m learning how to represent myself. Recently, I really struggled to find something modest to wear for a film premier. Let me tell you there are no fancy modest dresses where I live in L.A. I drove all over the city for two weeks and couldn’t find anything. I ended up wearing a sleeveless dress. I learned from that experience that I should just hire a stylist to go out and get my dresses for me. So, I’m not perfect but I am doing the best that I can. I know some of the people in my religious community think, “How could she be a good Mormon and be an actress?” I don’t think the stereotype that it’s difficult to be in the career that I’m in and be a good Mormon is true. I think many people still have this idea that the business is evil or it’s a bad influence. Being an actress doesn’t mean I get tempted more than any other person. I was talking with a friend of mine who works as an accountant and almost every day at work they ask him to go out and get a drink. Everybody is going to get tempted at some point or another to do something they know they shouldn’t do. When difficult choices do come up in my career, I really feel like Heavenly Father is looking out for me. A few times I’ve felt a bad situation coming on, and I haven’t been quite sure how to handle it. I worked on a show once where I was supposed to do a love scene and they told me, “You’re going to have your choice of being in a camisole or a bra and underpants.” I was really nervous about it. I had never done that before. I don’t expect every character I play to be perfect; I will always have opportunities to play characters who are nothing like me and who make bad choices. That’s just part of the art–you’re supposed to convey that. If I’m playing a character who is drinking I’m obviously not really drinking, and if my character decides to sleep with someone, I don’t have to literally sleep with that person. Still, I was so stressed about this scene, and I didn’t know what to do. Then I found out a short time later that my co-star wouldn’t do love scenes of any kind and wouldn’t take his shirt off. This had all been worked into his contract, so I had nothing to worry about now. Hallelujah! I know that when those kinds of situations are creeping up, and I don’t really know what I’m supposed to do, Heavenly Father steps in. I really feel like He blesses me in that way. Erin McKay What are the advantages of being LDS and an actor? It seems like people in the business are generally okay with who I am as a Mormon and are generally very respectful. I did have an experience not too long ago when I was working with someone who was not nice to me about my faith, which made it really hard. Luckily, I was surrounded by many other wonderful people on the project, and so I just gravitated towards them. Overall, there are a lot of great people who work in this industry. It’s like any other job in the sense that not everyone at work has the same religion or culture but that doesn’t make it bad. I’m blessed to work with representatives who respect me and know that I’m LDS and still like me and want to work with me. I really think there’s so much opportunity for good as an LDS actress. I feel like I’m in a situation where I can share the gospel and be a good example. With certain films I try to bring my spirituality into it if I can. Sometimes that approach isn’t always appropriate–there is a time and a place for everything. I think what’s more important is being a good person. I’m always willing to talk about the Church if people ask or if it comes up. I don’t share the gospel like a missionary in the sense that I teach gospel principles and tell them about Nephi. I prefer to show people about Mormonism–show them that you can be Mormon and normal and cool. Some people still think Mormons are like the characters on the TV show Big Love. They think Mormons are polygamists or confuse them with the Amish. I was talking with someone once who said, “So, do you have electricity?” I said, “Yeah, Salt Lake City did host the Olympics not too long ago.” I would say that being in this career has also made me more inclusive as a Mormon. I think I look at the gospel a little bit more open mindedly than I used to. It’s funny because I think a lot of my Mormon friends think I’m this crazy liberal now, while there are a lot of liberal people in Hollywood who probably think I’m this hyper conservative. I guess I’m somewhere in the middle. I love going to church in L.A. because I love how the gospel is approached a little bit more openly. There are a lot of people in my ward who are in the entertainment business so I kind of feel like I’m part of this special niche of people. There’s a film editor in my ward and other actors and producers and writers; we’re all trying to be good Latter-day Saints in a city where there are not very many Mormons. Erin McKay Have you had any spiritual or testimony building experiences while acting? Recently, I shot the film Heaven’s Rain about a man trying to come to terms with his parents’ murder and ultimately forgiving the murderers. I really feel like I was meant to be in that film for a specific reason and that everyone who was involved in that film was supposed to be there. There were a lot of people on the set who were from different faiths, and we all came together to share this very spiritual experience. It was really inspiring to work with so many people who shared a common believe in God and a common belief in this beautiful message of forgiveness. In a way it strengthened my testimony. Not every project does that. Most of the time things like that just don’t happen because making a movie is such a puzzle. There are so many elements that go in it: you shoot scenes out of chronological order, sometimes you’re not even looking at the person you’re interacting with, sometimes you’re looking at a different mark. It’s actually kind of a miracle that movies come together in the way that they do when you consider all of the different elements involved. As I continue in this business I am constantly growing and learning about myself, about my testimony, and about being a member of the Church. I know that the talents I have are from my Heavenly Father, and I want to share them. I love being in this business for that reason: I can share my talents while being a missionary. I never really know who I might be a good example for. I’m really grateful to have the gospel in my life. It’s a very secure and safe thing that I know will always be with me. I love my Savior and my Father in Heaven. I know that they’re always there for me. I think sometimes I get so busy and caught up in my life that I forget that they’re there to help me. I’ve had a lot of really wonderful experiences in my career where it has been hammered into my head to remember that they’re always there and that I need them. At A Glance Name: Erin Chambers McKay Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 31 Marital status: Married Children: I have a lab boxer named Ellie Mae and she’s 4. Occupation: Actress Schools Attended: Brigham Young University class of 2002—majored in Acting and minored in English. Favorite Hymn: “For the Beauty of the Earth” On The Web: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0150326/ and heavensrainmovie.com Interview by Krisanne Hastings.

Although Nancy McNabb lost a 22-month-old daughter to SIDS, her greatest challenge has been raising her autistic son Stewart. Nancy describes her tireless work with her 19-year-old son, her secrets to staying happily married with a special needs child, the role the gospel has played in her journey, and her work at the University of Illinois in autism education. What was your religious background growing up? I grew up in Champaign, Illinois, where my dad was a professor and later the dean of the College of Education at the University of Illinois. My mother’s father was a minister and my father’s mother was a church organist. My family went to the Methodist church for a while, and I remember going to Sunday School one week where the lesson was the Golden Rule. The teacher asked, “Does anybody here know the golden rule and can you recite it?” Nobody raised a hand so I did, and thought, “Well I don’t need this, I already know it!” Then, we went to the Presbyterian church for two weeks, and my mother decided the minister was a bigot, so that was the end of my religious education. You learned about and investigated the Church while you were in college at the University of Illinois in the early 1970s. What appealed to you about the gospel at that time? I saw Mormons I admired and like the scripture says, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” The gospel changes you, and I think that attracts a lot of people. Your outlook, your life, your whole world changes. I still feel it to this day: the difference in the way I look at things because of the gospel. It was a gradual change, but I became kinder, more patient, more willing to go outside my boundaries. After my baptism I was walking across campus with a guy in one of my classes, and he said, “There’s something different about you.” I told him I was a member of the Church. I’ve always wondered what happened to him, since he was into transcendental meditation. People look for truth, whether they consciously do it or not. When you grow up in the gospel, you’re taught from the very beginning that this is a good way to be, to try and overcome the natural man. But sometimes it’s foreign to people outside the Church. Nancy McNabb with Her Husband, Paul What were the circumstances surrounding your daughter’s death? We had three sons and Emma was our fourth child. She had a syndrome called chondrodysplasia punctata x-linked dominant form and was born with short humerus and femur bones, patchy hair (patchy alopecia), rough skin, and an extra digit on one of her hands. Had she lived, she would have been very little because she had those short bones. Her legs were different lengths, so she would have had to have surgery to lengthen one of her legs and make them the same. She died when she was 22 months old while the kids and I were down in Lexington, KY, visiting friends for spring break and Paul was home working in Illinois. She had febrile seizures as a baby, which are caused by high fevers, and had to take Phenobarbital. She got a cold and had a seizure at lunch time, so our friend, who was a doctor, brought home some medicine that day. She took the medicine and the next morning I woke up about 5 a.m. kind of chilled. I checked on the children, and when I touched her cheek it was cold. We used to put babies on their stomachs, and I’m guessing that she had a seizure and suffocated. Technically she died of SIDS, because that can happen up to 24 months old. So it wasn’t related to her physical bone condition. Our friend actually ended up signing her death certificate. How did you discover that your youngest son has autism? After Emma died I had two miscarriages and then we had Stewart. He seemed perfectly normal until he was about 18 months old. He’d learned his animal sounds and some words and seemed to be developing typically, but then he just stopped saying things. We thought he had a hearing problem because he’d sit on the floor and we’d stand behind him and whisper, “Stewart…STEWART!” and he wouldn’t even turn. That’s very typical of autism. Parents will take their child for a hearing test because they’re not responding. Tests showed his hearing was normal, but he started doing other things. We always kept our dishes in a lower cupboard so the kids could set the table, and he’d take out a bowl and spin it, really spin it. He’d also lick the glass door or get down on his hands and knees and tap his head against the floor. Paul was on a business trip, killing time one evening in a book store, when he picked up a book on autism and read through the checklist. Later we read it together, and we knew that’s what Stewart had. We made an appointment with a pediatric neurologist, but when he observed Stewart, he said he saw autistic behaviors but Stewart seemed too social. Later we found out that it’s just a misconception, especially among older doctors, that autistic kids can’t be social. For being severely autistic, Stewart actually has a pretty good vocabulary, but he just doesn’t have a desire to talk. Nancy McNabb with Stewart One of the things he did when he was young and still does now is called hand leading. An autistic child will take you by the hand and want you to do things for them. Even now, he’s obsessed with fans, and it’ll be time for supper and he has his fan, and I’ll say, “Stewart, turn off your fan,” and he’ll say, “Help me,” even though he doesn’t need help turning it off. I don’t know what the thrill is watching somebody else do it. But I’ll say, “No, you do it.” What role does the gospel play in helping you cope with these challenges? My husband Paul and I have talked before and we both think it’s harder to have a child with autism than to have a child die because you get over the death of a child. About six months after a person dies it doesn’t hurt quite so much. Some time passes. But when you’re dealing with something like autism it’s a challenge 24 hours a day for your whole life. Stewart is doing so much better, but when he was little, you just can’t believe how hard it was. He’d do things like take a handful of dirt out of the houseplants and throw it. We had ripening tomatoes on the kitchen counter and he threw them in the family room so there were seeds all over. He threw up on our piano. Paul had to come home from work to take the piano apart to clean it. Stewart used to escape from the house. We would go out to the car and hold onto his hand tightly because he’d pull really hard trying to get away. If he did, he’d start running to the other side of the block. He wasn’t toilet trained totally until he was ten. So dealing with that was a lot harder for us than having a child die. Some might not say that, but one of the reasons we’ve been able to cope with death and disability is because we believe it’s temporary. The gospel makes all the difference in my life because if you have a testimony of the gospel you can deal with just about anything. When my oldest son was little, we talked about his problems with his feet and that his dad had bad eyes. We talked about the resurrection and how someday we’ll all have perfect bodies, and I believe in it. We’ll see our daughter again and we’ll raise her. That affects everything that I do. I don’t consider myself special. I have dealt with things because, as far as I’m concerned, you just deal with what you’re given. We were in a meeting a while back and a woman talked about how she wouldn’t be able to handle someone else’s problems, and I said, “Yes, you could.” If it’s your problem, you can deal with it. But people will look at other people with different problems and think, “I’d much rather have mine” because you’re comfortable with your problems. You know you can deal with them because it’s what you do. Nancy McNabb with Her Family How has having Emma and Stewart affected you and the rest of your family? It makes me a lot more tolerant, more understanding, more humble. We’ve also felt that our kids’ disabilities have made our other children nicer people. They’re just more aware. They’re also very self-sufficient. How did you balance parenting a handicapped child with the needs of your other children while maintaining your own interests and sense of self? Paul and I are both happy people. I think there are some genes involved with this. I wake up in the morning and every once in a while I’m tired and don’t want to face the day, but most days I’m excited. I get a rush out of getting things done. It’s also a matter of attitude. I have felt very lucky to be able to stay home with my kids. Some people consider it a great break to go to work, but I enjoyed being with our kids. Paul was always really good to play with the kids, while I’ve never been very good at that. The other children were also a big help with Stewart, going out to the car and holding on to him or keeping an eye on him. If I have a good book, it doesn’t matter what else is happening. I’ve always had book group and other things such as teaching piano lessons and singing in the ward choir. Paul takes care of things when I’m gone and I take care of things when he’s gone. I’ve found time to do things I wanted and often mixed it in during daytime. I think you’re being a good role model for your children if you can show them things that you enjoy, instead of showing total self-sacrifice. Nancy McNabb with Stewart What type of educational arrangements did you make for Stewart? He’s been taught partly at home and partly in public school. We started having teachers come to our house, because the theory is that when autistic children are young, if you repeat teaching things to them they can gradually learn them. There was a woman in our ward who was an elementary education teacher and I asked her if she would be interested in working with Stewart. She was his Annie Sullivan and made a huge difference for him. He also attended school half time in the mornings when he was in grade school, then increased it when he was in 5th grade until right after lunch time. I think if he’d been in public school exclusively, he wouldn’t be functioning as well as he does now because he gets so distracted by groups of people. In grade school, sometimes they’d put up a little divider so he could do his work without as many distractions. The environment at home was so much more peaceful. Have parenting and caretaking arrangements changed as Stewart transitions from childhood to adulthood? As Stewart’s gotten older, he’s gotten easier and he also takes medication, which makes a huge difference. Yet we can’t leave him alone. He’d probably do fine, but if the house caught on fire, he’s afraid of fire, and he’d probably go up to his room to get away from it. He wouldn’t know what to do, so in that way it’s like having a toddler. We have some teachers and high school kids we can call to babysit, which is an easy job at our house because he has things to do. But at somebody else’s house he’ll do things like go to the bathroom and turn on the shower or raise and lower their garage door over and over again. Going away for the night is really hard. We make sure that he has a shower every morning because sometimes parents with special needs kids don’t keep them clean enough. They’re in close contact with other people and my theory is that if your child is clean people will want to be around him. We can’t have a high school girl, or even a high school boy shower him because he’s 19 and an adult male now. So we have a friend who is a respite worker who can come and spend the night and shower him in the morning. One of Stewart’s challenges is leisure time. He gets bored doing the same old things, but he doesn’t want to do anything new. For instance, if there’s no school, we have to get out at some point during the day. I walk with friends at the church a couple of times a week and will take Stewart with me. He goes around and turns on all the lights in the building and is obsessed with the stake offices door. You always know where to find him at church because he’s always there. I talk to my friends and do my walking and then they help me turn off all the lights and Stewart helps too. I’ve had a lot of support from friends who can fill in, which helps immensely. We had to attend a funeral recently, so a friend of mine came over and met Stewart’s bus at 3:30 p.m., then his teacher came at four and we were home by five when the teacher left. Another time I cut my finger badly and a friend took over so I could get it taken care of. Tell me about your work with autism education at the University of Illinois. I help with one special education class at the University of Illinois where students learn what it’s like to be in a family with a disabled child. Each student is paired up with a family in the area who has a child with a disability. During the course of the semester they spend eight hours with the family, observing the child at school or in the home. I help make those assignments and coordinate panels to come in and speak to the class every week. Sometimes the class has over 50 students and we have to find families for each, which is tricky. Then we have to deal with students who have problems with their families and need to observe someone else. So currently I have two students and I always invite them to come watch Stewart at church. The class is only offered spring and summer so I work four hours a week those semesters and in the fall we find families for special projects classes are doing, if they need to interview someone or assess a child. It’s very part-time, but when I go to class at 3:30 on Thursdays Paul comes home from work. Nancy McNabb How have you and your husband kept your relationship strong over the years? We juggle. Sometimes a special needs child can break a marriage apart, but we feel it’s made ours stronger. You share this common history that no one else really understands. There are a lot of men that don’t deal well with disabilities. They won’t take responsibility or don’t want to recognize that their child is imperfect. But Paul and Stewart are just grand companions. I hardly ever go to the grocery store anymore because they go together and the love it. They stroll through the aisles and have a lovely time. Stewart never wants to go with me, but he always wants to go with Paul. Last weekend there was a miniature train show at one of the local malls and they had the nicest time together. So that makes me happy to see them together. We tend to take turns going on vacation. Paul goes to a work conference every year, then I’ll leave and go visit kids out of town and he and Stewart will drive out to meet me. Stewart does really well in the car. He could drive 20 hours straight and not bat an eye. It’s hard at the other end when we’re not at home. We have to take stuff for Stewart to do because he starts getting bored. But now we can take Stewart to a movie with us. He doesn’t do terribly well, but it’s something. At A Glance Name: Nancy McNabb Location: Champaign, Illinois Age: 56 Marital status: Married 32 years Children: Evan (31), Andrew (28), Peter (26), Emma (deceased), Stewart (19) Occupation: Piano teacher, special ed consultant Convert? November 11, 1972 Schools Attended: University of Illinois Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “Press Forward, Saints” Interview by Nollie Haws.