As an ambitious young lawyer pursuing her doctorate at The Hague, The Netherlands, Dagmar was introduced to the Church through her roommate. After serving a mission at age 29, Dagmar landed her dream job on the Yugoslavia Tribunal at The Hague, only to give it up when she was specifically recruited to work instead in the Church’s public affairs department for Europe. Now as a mother and wife, Dagmar still works part-time as a general counsel to the Church in Frankfurt, Germany. It has sometimes been painful and lonely for her to follow those doors that have been opened to her and leave behind those that have been shut, but she believes the Lord is aware of her and is making use of her tremendous skills. What prompted you to choose international human rights law as your career? Even as a young girl, I thought there should be more justice in this world. Anything that was unjust or unfair frustrated me. I remember at school a group of children decided they would not talk anymore to a particular girl. I thought, “That is not fair! Why would you want to do that?” And so I kept being a friend to her, which made me feel very peaceful. I grew up in southwest Germany, in a small village close to the city of Worms. I had a great childhood and a wonderful family. I enjoyed going to school. I did ballet and played the piano. I was a happy child and very fortunate. But I remember noticing that some children were not as fortunate as me. I thought that wasn’t fair. There was no one to blame, but in my mind, I thought they deserved better. I wished the world were more just to them. That’s how my interest in being a lawyer began. Of course, that was probably the worst reason ever to become a lawyer. The very first thing I learned in law school is that justice and law have nothing to do with each other. The professor told us that they’re totally different things and all those students who were there because they felt like doing something for justice–they were in the wrong place. Dagmar Patricia Kollmeier and Her Husband Well, I didn’t leave. And I found out later in my studies that with international law you can at least try to fight for the cause of justice, for human rights. I went to law school in Heidelberg, Germany, and followed some classes in Italy. Following that, I went to the Netherlands to do my PhD. I specialized in international law and wrote my dissertation about the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, a United Nations court of law dealing with war crimes that took place during the conflicts in the Balkans in the 1990s. I also worked part-time at the Tribunal while I wrote my dissertation. When I finished my PhD, I went back to do my bar training in Germany. How did you come to join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? I was a practicing Catholic growing up. We went to church every Sunday. I went to First Communion at age 8 and to Confirmation at age 14. But there were doctrines and teachings in the Catholic Church which I disagreed with. For example, the doctrine of the Trinity: I never, ever agreed with that. So the Catholic Church became less and less important to me. At some point I decided I did not need a church in order to be a faithful person. I never lost my faith in God, though. I always had a very strong conviction that God and Jesus Christ existed. But life was hard at university. I was part of a huge group of students and the ambition among them was extreme and not very friendly. There was fighting for books, fighting for better grades. I yearned for comfort, so I began to look for an organized religion again. I knew I wouldn’t find the close relationship to God I wanted in the Catholic Church, so I looked elsewhere, in evangelical churches and even some Eastern traditions. But nothing gave me the answer I was looking for. When I received my degree from Heidelberg, I had many questions about where I should go next. I had been to The Hague, The Netherlands, the “capital” of International Law, briefly, and I felt drawn back there. I prayed intensely and persistently about very worldly matters like money, like housing. I said, “OK, Lord, if Thou wants me to go to The Hague, then I need a room there, and I need some income.” One thing opened after another. A friend told me of an apartment. I won a scholarship. The Lord prepared the way. My roommate in The Hague impressed me because her life basically was the opposite of mine. She lost her mother when she was young, only thirteen. After her mother died, her father moved to France so she lived with her grandmother for a while and then with another person for a while. Her childhood seemed to me unstable and sad but nevertheless she became a very happy, beautiful, optimistic person. I always compared myself to her and thought, “If I had lost my mother at age thirteen, I probably would have been so sad and so hurt and so full of hatred with the world that I would have never managed to become a normal person or a happy person. It would have just destroyed my life!” But she had something that made her so happy and beautiful. I asked her about it. She explained to me that she knew that she would see her mother again and that they would be an eternal family. She was a flight attendant but whenever she was in town on Sunday, she went to church. Since I was looking for a church I thought that maybe I could just go with her once. I asked her and she said, “Yes, of course. But I am a Mormon and we have only one chapel in The Hague and we have to travel through the whole city to get there.” The moment she said “Mormon,” I knew I had to have that. I didn’t know what “Mormon” meant, but I just knew that I had to become a Mormon too. At all costs. The Spirit testified to me that whatever she was telling me was right. She gave me the Book of Mormon before we went to church. I started reading it and I never had a doubt. I never prayed whether it was true or not – I just knew it was. On my 26th birthday, I was baptized in The Hague chapel. When I found the gospel I finally felt like a fish in the water. I had flapped in the air for so long, seeking for water. I felt liberated! I felt free! It was wonderful to live the gospel! It wasn’t challenging: I had never smoked, I didn’t really like alcohol, I always tried to live high moral standards. That wasn’t new to me. Instead, in the gospel I found pleasant and peaceful answers. For example, when I was ten years old and had to bury my grandparents, it was extremely hard, because no one knew exactly where they would go and whether I would see them again. But when I found the Church I finally got the answer: yes, we can be an eternal family. The gospel gave me answers and direction. Dagmar Patricia Kollmeier and Her Husband You served a mission. Tell me about how you came to the decision to go on a mission. Shortly after I was baptized, I was thinking about a mission myself. But as I investigated whether I should serve a mission, the quotation from Pres. Hinckley always came up where he said that it is not expected of women to serve a mission and that women should go on with their education and their career. This convinced me that a mission wasn’t meant for me. So I continued and finished my PhD. Later, when I was doing my bar training, I talked to a young woman who had just come back from her mission. She had so many great stories that I loved listening to! One night, after spending the evening talking to her, I said jokingly to myself before I went to bed “OK, if I fail the bar exam I will go on a mission.” The next morning I woke up and I immediately knew that it was not a joke at all but that I had to serve a mission, no matter the outcome of the bar exam. I was extremely surprised, even frightened, because I was already 29 – pretty old for a mission, but that was just what the Lord had in mind for me. My family, of course, was furiously afraid for me when I told them I was going on a mission. At that time, it was difficult for a lawyer to find a job in the first place and then, if you leave the law only for several months, you are not current because the law changes basically every day. You must update your skills all the time. My family was afraid that if I went on a mission for 18 months that no law firm would ever be interested in me. Then, after the call came, they were even more afraid for me because I was called to Temple Square. They thought, “Why in the world would they need missionaries in the headquarters?” They had heard bad things about minority churches, things about brainwashing, so they were afraid that bad things would happen to me. Yet, they would let me go. I remember my father’s words. He said, “You know this is not exactly what we had hoped and planned for you, but if this is what you really want to do, we will support you and help you in any way we can. Just promise me one thing–if you feel lonely or if you are sad, just come home immediately.” He totally thought of himself in the second place. The only thing that was important to him was that I be happy. While I was on my mission, my family came to visit me once at Temple Square. They saw that I was very happy. Of course I hoped that they would feel the Spirit and become converted, but it did not happen that way. They still are very supportive but they are happy in their own church. How did you restart your career when your mission ended? After my mission, I went home to my parents in Germany and started job hunting. My parents’ fears for my professional life were fully justified. I got very harsh replies everywhere I applied. People simply would not consider my application, regardless of my degrees. They only saw that I had just finished a mission for a minority church, and they would not even consider hiring me. The response was so discouraging that I didn’t know where to go or what to do. Friends in the Netherlands saw I could not find a job and saw how desperate I was. A member of the Church there suggested, “Why don’t you try with the Yugoslavia Tribunal again, because we now have a member there who is one of the managers.” I contacted him, and he said, “I am actually looking for a temporary person in my department.” I filled every one of the requirements for the job. So he and another manager gave me an interview and they accepted my application, just for a temporary job at first, but I have no doubt that the Spirit led me there. After a few weeks I was offered one of the most coveted jobs at the Tribunal, a permanent position assisting a judge. This was the best job I ever had. I was so happy working for the judge, writing opinions and drafting memoranda. It was perfect. It was an exciting place. I was surrounded by young attorneys from all over the world. We were writing history because this kind of Tribunal was something totally new. I thought I would stay there as long as the Tribunal existed. That was my plan. But my plan changed. One beautiful morning I was riding my bike to the Tribunal through the forest in The Hague, looking forward to my work and thinking how extremely happy I was to have the job I had, when I heard this voice in my head, “Then enjoy it as much as you can, because you won’t stay very long.” Two days later I received a telephone call from the president of the Central Europe Area here in Frankfurt, who was at that time Marlin K. Jensen. He said, “Dagmar, we have a job opening in the Public Affairs Department, and we would like you to apply.” I had met Elder Jensen after my mission. My mission president knew him and had suggested I meet with him when I was back in Germany since he was also a lawyer and might have an idea of how I could get a job. Elder Jensen invited me to lunch with the entire area presidency. The most spiritual lunch I ever had! I told them then I didn’t want to work for the Church because I loved to be among members of other faiths. But they thought of me when this job opening came. And because the Spirit had already warned me, I knew what to do! Actually, it wasn’t that simple. Not at all. I struggled. I was troubled. I listed the advantages and disadvantages. The list for The Hague and the Tribunal was a very long list, and there was no disadvantage at all. For Frankfurt and working for the Church, there was only one advantage. And that was that it was the Church of Jesus Christ. I wanted to serve Christ in any way I could. That was sufficient reason for me to quit my job and come to Frankfurt. But it was hard. For me, it was very difficult leaving the Tribunal. I loved The Hague, and I loved the work environment. In taking the job with the Church, I didn’t know exactly where I was going. But I trusted the Spirit. When I came to Frankfurt I began to realize what I had lost. I had worked at the Tribunal for a judge who was extremely challenging and demanding, and who taught me new things every day. When I first started working for the Church I had a very, very administrative position in the Public Affairs department. I was under-utilized and felt unchallenged. Also, in the move to Frankfurt from The Hague, I had lost all my colleagues and friends. I felt very lonely. My co-workers were all church members who already had their families and their wards. There were hardly any people my age in my office, so it took a while before I found friends. That was very hard. It was a dark time for me. In my prayers and study, though, I felt that I wasn’t alone and that coming to Frankfurt had been the right thing. In a while, the Lord led me to a very good friend. The Lord, the scriptures, and my friend, they pulled me through. I changed departments and joined the legal department, which was a source of greater satisfaction because that used more of my training. I’m now Legal Coordinator at the Office of General Counsel of the Church in the Europe area. I have been assigned missionary visas and government relations. I help missionaries in the Europe area with visas and residency permits, helping them to stay legal in their assigned countries. In many countries they have difficulties. With government relations, I am in charge of establishing contact with European governments and helping the Church improve its standing. In addition to changing departments, my attitude changed. I finally began to realize exactly what I am doing. Sometimes it is only administrative–I am just writing emails or such things. But in my small way, in baby steps, I am helping the Lord’s church to grow here in this area. That gives me great satisfaction. I don’t regret leaving the Tribunal anymore. I think I finally understand what I’m doing and for Whom I’m working. You started your career with a passion for justice. Is that a passion that you have set aside or something that you work toward in your current job? Part of justice is making sure that people wherever they are can enjoy religious freedom. I think that with the work that I’m doing, I’m helping not only the cause of the Church, but also the cause of religious freedom in general. In that regard, my goal has stayed the same. In another way, though, my goal has changed. I’m very focused on sharing the gospel and doing missionary work through my work. So in that way, my professional life has a different emphasis than I had expected when I was in law school. How else has moving to Frankfurt changed your life? I think one of the reasons I had to leave The Hague to come here to Frankfurt was to meet my husband. In a blessing when I finished my mission, I was told that my job would bring me to my husband. When I first came to Frankfurt, the senior missionaries in my office thought I should get married, so they arranged dates for me. I think in one year I dated every single person in southern Germany and Switzerland. It was frustrating because Mr. Right wasn’t among them. Finally another friend who knew both my husband and me arranged for a date without “warning” either of us before . I knew from the first moment I saw him, that it was him. So, just as the blessing had promised, my job–coming here to Frankfurt–led me to my husband. Dagmar Patricia Kollmeier and Her Husband You are very close to your parents. What happened when you announced your marriage plans to them? I was nervous when we went to explain to them that we would be married in the temple. I knew it would disappoint them, and I hate to disappoint my parents, but there was no other way. My mother was a little bit hurt that she couldn’t be there. But we had a beautiful ring ceremony in a chapel, which is right on the temple grounds, after our sealing. Also, during our sealing my family and friends were allowed to have a tour through the temple grounds and even through the lower part of the temple, up until you reach the reception desk. I think because they were allowed to enter a little bit of the temple, and because of all the attention they received from our wonderful recorder in the Frankfurt Temple, who gave the tour, that helped a lot. You have a seventeen month old daughter, Ann-Sophie. Tell me about how you have combined work and motherhood. For a year, I was only a mother, and I found that totally rewarding. For several different reasons, though, I had to go back to work at least part-time. It’s nice that I can use a different part of my brain for some hours per week. It’s a very nice balance. For four days I am a full-time mom and then three days I am working a little bit. I am really fortunate that I have family living very close to us. We live in Friedrichsdorf – a small town where the Frankfurt Temple is located – and my sister-in-law and parents-in-law both live there as well. They take care of Ann-Sophie two days a week and one day my husband is home, so she is always with family. My husband and I are glad we have found a way that he and I can both take care of her. But still there are challenges with working and being a mother. You want to do both perfectly: you want to be perfect at your job but also be a perfect mother. Having both jobs, here at the office and as a mother, is all-consuming. Dagmar Patricia Kollmeier and Her Family Of course I am not in a position to do as much scripture study and intense prayer as I did before I had a child, but I feel that the Lord expects less from me time-wise when it comes to scripture study and prayer than He did when I was single. I open my scriptures every day but sometimes I have the impression I get out of five minutes of intense study as much as I did in half an hour before. I think the Lord recognizes when we are trying to do what we can, however little that may be, and is willing to open our spiritual understanding immediately. At A Glance Name: Dagmar Patricia Kollmeier Location: Frankfurt, Germany Age: 39 Convert to Church?: 1 June 1997 Marital status: Married to Björn Kollmeier (met in 2007, married in 2008, first child born in 2009) Children: One daughter, Ann-Sophie Madleen, 17 months Occupation: Lawyer Schools Attended: Rudi-Stephan-Gymnasium Worms, Law school at University of Heidelberg, Germany, and Ferrara, Italy Languages Spoken at Home: German Favorite Hymn: “A Child’s Prayer” Interview by Annette Pimentel.

Sista Beehive and Sista Laurel started their blog, As Sistas in Zion, as a way to keep in touch with each other and express their sense of humor. But because they invite others to laugh with them about what it means to be Mormon, and specifically, what it means to be an African-American Mormon, their blog has grown. It’s not all fun and games with these two though: They speak honestly about the loneliness and misunderstandings they’ve faced as a cultural minority in the Church and how humor, friendship, and faith keep them going. How did you come up with the concept for “As Sistas in Zion”? Sista Beehive: Sista Laurel was moving away and I’m not the best at keeping in contact with people after they’re gone. The blog was something we wanted to do to have fun together and really just stay connected. We do think that we’re funny and we do think that there are things that happen within our church organization that are really funny and we wanted to be able to highlight that. There are so many paths within the LDS Church and some of the things that might be serious to some people might be funny to me. For example, a friend and I were once joking about buying temple recommends in the back of the Marriott Center, but another person got highly offended that we would even joke like that. I want to be able to talk about things and not have Mormon people attack us because they look at us and assume we’re not Mormon. Do people ever get upset by things you say on the blog? Sista Laurel: When we say things in real life to someone as African Americans who don’t look or sound like what someone perceives an LDS person to be, that person doesn’t necessarily know we’re LDS, so when we make a joke like buying temple recommends they might get offended cause they don’t know we’re laughing from within the religion. On our blog, everyone knows that we’re LDS, so I think that they feel that we’re laughing with them, not laughing at them. And we are; we’re finding humor in ourselves and in our own experiences. So for the most part we don’t find that LDS people are offended by what we say. We keep it light. We’re not a doctrinal blog. It’s clearly just our opinions. I think the funny overtone of the blog keeps people in a light mood. If we were a Mormon doctrine blog and didn’t have the element of humor people would disagree with us more forcefully, but because we’re being light it would seem out of place for someone to have a harsh and direct disagreement with us. Sista Laurel and Sista Beehive What makes your blog different from other Mormon women’s blogs? Sista Beehive: Our readers like to be entertained and they like to laugh at things they might not ordinarily have the opportunity to laugh at in a group setting. But they also want to know that we’re human, we’re individuals, and we have feelings. I don’t think we started this to be different from other Mormon women, but we wanted to be included in the Mormon women blogs. I don’t think all Mormon women are alike, nor are their blogs alike, and so we wanted to be included in the conversation of Mormon women. We often focus on humor, but sometimes we discuss serious matters and life experiences. I do find it very interesting that a lot of times, when we’re writing about more serious topics, we get people who say “that was really refreshing to see this side of you.” Who do you see as your target audience? Sista Beehive: It started off that we wanted to be able to laugh amongst ourselves. But some of the first responses we got were from nonmembers who said things like, “My daughter is black and joined your church but I don’t feel like I can ask her things.” I get comments from people saying that this is the first time they’ve ever really been able to get a glimpse of the lighter side of Mormonism because we are so serious and we Mormons can be standoffish about things. The way we shield our sacredness is so secretive that it’s a turnoff to many outside the Church. For example, we have a reader who asked members, “What happens in your temples?” and the members told her, “Well, it’s sacred, we don’t talk about it.” And when she came to me with the question she said it was the first time she had ever heard anyone explain the temple to her in a way she could understand. She told me it was usually such a turnoff dealing with Mormons because we never talk about the things she wants to know about. I may not be Mormon like Sister Jones is Mormon, but I’m definitely Mormon. I may not be Christian like Sister Jones is a Christian, but I’m definitely a Christian. And we just wanted to highlight those things and bring in the Christian and the non-Christian community and the Mormon and the non-Mormon community. I think that you guys do a really good job of both explaining things for people who might not know the lingo or the routine. As I’ve been reading the blog over the last few days, I was really impressed by the way that you give a little bit of background information but not so much that it seems that someone who is Mormon would feel “this isn’t for me.” I think you do a great job striking that balance. Sista Beehive: Once we knew there were a lot of non-LDS readers it became really important for us to make it a place where no one felt uncomfortable. It’s not a conversion blog, so if you’re already LDS you don’t say, “This is a missionary blog so I don’t need to be here.” If you’re not LDS you aren’t constantly having to email us and say, “What do Mormons mean when they say ‘sweet spirit?’” We learned quickly that it would be best to give a little bit of explanation. We do the same thing with what we might term “urban vernacular.” We don’t want anyone to feel out of the loop so we like to explain our urban vernacular to our less-traveled readers, too. One thing I’ve noticed is that your blog is funny but also has a very distinctive voice. It doesn’t sound exactly the way, now that I’m talking to you, that you guys talk, but I think you are using more of the urban vernacular and being a little more causal in your word choice on the blog. Is that a conscious decision or is it something that naturally happened as you talked with each other? Sista Laurel: Honestly, when we talk as girlfriends we talk completely different than we are right now. We write a lot of the posts over the phone with one another and they come across exactly how we talk to each other as girlfriends. I will call Sister Beehive and say, “Girl, did you know that Mormons are doing this?” or “Did you hear about that ‘Book of Mormon’ musical?” And we’re just talking as girlfriends and that becomes the blog post. Sista Beehive: We felt it was important for us to stay true to who we are and to ourselves. We hope that the voice of the blog allows our readers to feel like they are a part of our inner circle, as if we are chillin’ with our girlfriends and kickin’ it with our boys. Can you think of any examples, stories that you’ve talked about on the blog that you think are just hilarious? Sista Laurel: I always tell Sista Beehive that people don’t understand how funny Mormons are. The speakers in General Conference, the General Authorities, are really humorous people. I mean, of course Conference talks are serious, but the General Authorities have great senses of humor and they share it and they show it to us all the time. President Monson is hilarious. In this last Conference Elder Holland used the phrase “Bedlamites,” and that whole talk was a very serious talk but he infused it with humor. It was funny, and on our blog we talked about how when we looked up the word “Bedlamites” it actually means a crazy person in an insane asylum, and we’re pretty sure he knows what that means. He’s using it to describe our kids, which is great. Sista Beehive: He called kids “Bedlamites” and everybody just laughed. Nobody got up and walked away offended. The TV stayed on. One of our first posts was about how we dress at General Conference. I don’t think that Mormons would ever survive at a Pentecostal conference or a Baptist conference. We would have to become way more fashion savvy. When we stop and look at what we do and what we say and how we behave at times, it’s comical, and not in a disrespectful way. Sista Beehive What are some of the challenges and blessings that come with being African American and Mormon? Sista Laurel: I’ve lived in places where I’ve been a minority, not by race, but by being Mormon. And that’s something that has made me open about my faith. Then on the flip side, when I moved to Utah in high school I thought that it would be the best of both worlds: there would be a lot of LDS people around me, so there wouldn’t be that awkwardness about my faith, but I had no idea that Utah was so lacking in ethnic diversity. No one told me that. They just let us get off the plane and we looked around and we were like, “Oh my gosh, what is going on here?” I had never lived in such an un-diverse place. That was really shocking to me. In addition to that, I think there are so many dynamics that come with being Mormon in Utah, which I was not used to. There were so many variations among the Mormons. When you live outside of Utah, there’s just one type of Mormon: you’re it. But when I moved to Utah, I felt like “Whoa, there are so many kinds of Mormons.” It was the first time I heard the phrase “Jack Mormon.” I had no idea what a Jack Mormon was. I would go to school with kids and they would swear and then they would pass and take the sacrament on Sunday. There are different variations and different levels and different ways people choose to interact with the faith. Plus, there was this whole “black Mormon” thing. I moved there when I was in high school. I thought it was going to be this really cool EFY experience and it was just going to be a whole bunch of people who have the same faith and the same standards, which would make life easier because you’re not always the person saying “No, I don’t want to do that.” I assumed that everyone was just going to be like “No, I don’t watch rated-R movies.” So for me it was a little bit shocking that it wasn’t like that. And then there was this huge dynamic of me being the first black person many of my friends had ever interacted with. I had a high school history teacher who, when we got to the section on slavery, told me I could leave because she felt uncomfortable teaching it in front of me. As a teenager, I wasn’t prepared to be the person that introduced others to an entire culture. I think that was part of what shaped the person I am today. It’s part of why I’m such an open person. But I guess either I could get offended and walk away (which I did plenty of times) or I could answer people’s questions to the best of my ability, so it really made me an open person. Sista Beehive: Much like Sista Laurel, I think that growing up outside of Utah, you have to be the representative for what Mormonism is. I joined the Church at age eleven and for a long time went to both the Mormon and the Pentecostal churches. The ward I grew up wasn’t perfect, but I was so sheltered and protected by my ward family. When I left to go to a Church school, I was treated worse than in any of the other places I’d lived. I went from having to defend my religion to having to defend my race. Some of the things that LDS people in the predominantly LDS community said to me were mean, and some of their reactions to who I was and what I looked like made me feel terrible. If I didn’t have a testimony of the gospel, I would have left the Church because the other LDS people didn’t treat me like I was their sister, another child of God. Sista Laurel What were things that helped along the way? Did you feel you had to rely on faith? Sista Beehive: I felt that I relied on faith a lot. I think that if you don’t know what you have is true, no matter what, other people won’t keep you in the Church. You’re not going to stay in this gospel just because you have great friends. Meeting great people certainly helps, but it’s not enough. I was always told that when I went to a Church school that that’s where all the black people would be. I was the only black person in the Church in the region where I grew up and I was so excited to go to a Church school. And when I got there, there were 20 black people. But if I had never gone through those experiences I may not have been prompted to and had the desire to research the history of early black pioneers. Learning of the history, struggles, sacrifices and faith of black Mormon pioneers such as Jane Manning James, Elijah Abel, Green Flake and others has blessed me immensely in my life. So what’s next for the Sistas? We’ve been pleasing overwhelmed that people actually care about what we have to say. Everyone has been so supportive and we are definitely finding our place in the Mormon and faith-based conversation. We’ll keep writing, doing firesides and speaking and hopefully people will keep reading, listening and not asking us to shut up. Until next time, hallelujah holla back! At A Glance Names: Sista Beehive and Sista Laurel Location: Zion Age: How old do we look? Marital status: What’s with all these questions? Children: We’re not claiming any. Occupation: The Boss. Schools Attended: Seminary Languages Spoken at Home: Ebonics Favorite Hymn: “As SIstas in Zion” (it’s a remix) Current Calling: Don’t call us, we’ll call you. On The Web: www.sistasinzion.com Interview by Shelah Miner.

At 15, Beth lost a few pounds at camp and came home to increased attention and concern. Liking that attention, her mind was overtaken by anorexia. In college, her disorder evolved into bulimia. Seeing an eating disorder therapist allowed her to get pregnant, and Beth is now heading up the first Anorexic/Bulimic Recovery Program in the church. Can you describe the development of your eating disorder? My eating disorder began when I was 15 years old, the summer after my sophomore year in high school. I had unintentionally lost about 5 lbs when I went to girls camp. I came home, and thought, “That was kind of nice. That wasn’t too hard to lose 5 lbs. I wonder if I can lose more.” Those thoughts were the starting point of it all. I was never big to begin with. I’m naturally a slim person and didn’t need to lose any weight, so when I started losing more weight it was pretty drastic. People noticed really quickly–I was getting compliments or even concern, and I liked that. The attention fed the disorder. The disorder started off as Anorexia. I rarely ever skipped a meal, but always ate very small portions, and I over-exercised. Right before I was a senior in high school, my parents became really concerned because I was so thin and my periods stopped. I would get sick all of the time, and my personality changed. Before the disorder, I liked to be social, I laughed easily, and I was fairly happy. The eating disorder took that away from me. I wasn’t social anymore. I was kind of depressed and just consumed by this obsession with food. My parents tried to intervene, but they didn’t really know what to do. I was taking horseback riding lessons at the time which was one of the most important things in my life. My mom sat down and said that she was going to stop the horseback riding lessons if I didn’t start eating more. She had me eat a bowl of Dinty Moore Beef Stew and a very big glass of milk. Bless her heart, she was doing what she thought was best. When I knew I had to eat to keep the horseback riding lessons, I tried to find a way to get rid of the food. That was the point when I went from being Anorexic to Bulimic. Beth Ann Allen I struggled with Bulimia all through college. I tried making myself throw up but I wasn’t able to so I ended up using laxatives in a binge and purge cycle. I would be really strict about what I ate, and I would exercise a lot. I would eventually get really hungry, of course, and I would binge. When I binged, I would feel really badly about myself, and then I would use the laxatives. It was a cycle I thought I would never be free of. Bulimia was a lot harder to deal with mentally than the Anorexia because of the feelings of guilt and shame that I experienced. I felt ashamed because I believed I should be able to control what I was eating. I felt like a pig. I thought, “You’re disgusting. Why would you eat so much? You should be able to control that.” Sometimes I thought, “Why is this so important to me? Am I just really vain?” I didn’t like worrying about my weight all of the time. I knew it wasn’t important, but I couldn’t help thinking about it, and I knew that Heavenly Father didn’t want me obsessing over it, but for some reason I couldn’t get away. The really hard thing about eating disorders is that you have to eat. You can’t separate yourself from food. You can separate yourself from drugs and alcohol and pornography and gambling but you have to eat. Every meal time you have to face it again. I didn’t want to live like that. I got to the point where I just wanted to die. I wanted to have a car hit me because I was feeling so badly about myself. During my junior year in college, I was studying my scriptures one night, and I started reading Mosiah 7:18-19. I read, “Oh ye, my people, lift up your head and be comforted; for behold, the time is at hand, or is not far distant, when we shall no longer be in subjection to our enemies, not withstanding our many strugglings, which have been in vain; yet I trust there remaineth an effectual struggle to be made.” That scripture felt like it was written for me. It helped me realize that I could get through this. I just needed to have hope. It felt like Heavenly Father was saying to me, “It might be a little while, but you will get through this. You will be able to be whole again.” It was very calming. I felt okay with having to struggle a little longer knowing there was an end in sight. How has your eating disorder affected your relationships? I met my husband around this time, and dating him seemed to help alleviate my symptoms for a little while. Unfortunately, this wasn’t permanent. When I finally talked to him about my eating disorder, he didn’t know what to do. I don’t blame him. He didn’t understand. He made us dinner one night when we had only been married for a short time. I didn’t want to eat it for one reason or another, and he got really upset with me. He said, “Why won’t you just sit down and eat with me?” I thought, “I don’t want to be like this. I want to be able to sit down and enjoy a meal with my husband without worrying about the calories or if it’s going to make me gain weight or feel guilty.” At that point I decided I was going to do something about my disorder beyond trying to fix it myself. I found an eating disorder therapist on the Internet and made an appointment. My husband and I talked about it–it was expensive and wasn’t covered by our insurance but we decided that it would be worth it because I wanted to be happy. If you’re not happy then what’s the point? The therapist had had an eating disorder herself and had recovered from it. She became a therapist because she wanted to help others in her situation. She helped me so much; she was the first person I could open up to, and I felt completely safe telling her everything. Going to see her helped me realize that eating disorders are not about weight. The disorder might start off as a weight issue but there’s always an underlying problem, whether it be self-esteem, relationships with family and friends, etc. Once we got to the root of that, I could start healing. Beth Ann Allen and Her Family What do you think was the underlying root of your eating disorder? A lot of factors went into my eating disorder. It started off as a weight issue and morphed into more of a control issue. I really liked being in control of every little thing that I ate. The more I could control it, the worse it would get. Growing up I didn’t have the best self-esteem or body image either so that definitely factored into it. I’ve always been quiet and shy and get a bit nervous in social situations–sometimes more than others. I think that at school especially I didn’t really feel like I fit in or that I was ever good enough. I felt like I was just kind of a tag-a-long sometimes and that no one really noticed me, or that people only wanted to be around me when they needed something from me. When I started losing weight and getting attention and compliments it filled that insecure spot and made me want to lose more weight. I realize now that it wasn’t as bad as I had imagined. I was just shy–it was my insecurities and Satan telling me I wasn’t good enough. How has your eating disorder affected motherhood? What’s interesting is that it wasn’t until I went to an eating disorder therapist to deal with the anxiety and depression surrounding my disorder that I was able to get pregnant. We had been married for more than a year and had used very little to no birth control, and I had never been able to get pregnant. It wasn’t because I was too thin, because at that point I was at a healthy weight and having my periods. It was the anxiety and stress I experienced in dealing with the eating disorder that was keeping me from getting pregnant. I was also nervous about getting pregnant. I was nervous about the changes it would bring and obviously the weight gain. At the same time I always wanted to have a family and to have children. My desire for a family won out over the body issues, luckily. I have four small children now, three of whom are girls. Having daughters has taught me a lot. When I was younger I would think, “Well, this is about me. This isn’t hurting anyone else.” But that’s not true. It hurts everyone who loves you and it hurts people who look up to you, families and friends. I don’t want my children to hear me say negative things about my body or my looks. I’m very diligent about it because I don’t want them to have to go through what I did. I’m trying to do all that I can. I do tell them that they’re beautiful but I also try to compliment them on things deeper than physical beauty. I try to tell them that they are smart and brave and strong and kind. I want them to know that their worth is more than their physical beauty. Can you talk about the church’s new Anorexic/Bulimic Recovery Program? Beth Ann Allen I’m heading up the first Anorexic/Bulimic Recovery Program the church has ever organized. It’s very exciting. It’s really nice that the church is recognizing this as a problem. I think a lot of women in our society struggle with self-esteem, especially women in the church, because they strive for this perfect ideal. This manifests itself in many ways, including the way that women view their bodies and compare themselves to others. I’m always surprised when I meet a woman who hasn’t struggled with her body image, even slightly. The Anorexic/Bulimic Recovery Program tries to help these women who are struggling; it is a 12 step program with a group leader (someone who has gone through full recovery) and a facilitator (someone who is still struggling with the problem but they’ve gotten to a point where they’re functioning so they can help when needed). I am the group leader in my ward’s program and recently went to my first meeting. We went around the room and gave everyone a chance to talk. If someone wanted to share they could. If they didn’t want to share, they could pass and just listen. Everything that was said in the room stayed in the room so it was all very confidential. All of the girls shared, and it was really touching. I felt humbled and grateful to be a part of it. It was therapeutic and brought a lot of feelings back that I hadn’t felt for a while. What I took away most from the meeting was just how important it is to not let those feelings of insecurity and inferiority sneak back into my life. It’s okay to not be perfect. It’s okay just to do my best. I have to work at it every day. Do you feel like you’re completely cured from your eating disorder? I strongly believe that there will always be that eating disorder in my head, but as long as it doesn’t take up more than a few seconds of my day or more than a small fraction of my mind, then I’m okay. I just have to be careful. I have to be aware of triggers. I have to refrain from obsessing over things. I have to be close to the Lord, and I have to read my scriptures so that I can have the Spirit with me; this makes me stronger and more able to pick out what’s important and what’s not. I feel like I’m in a really good spot. I feel really blessed to have gotten here because at times I felt like I never would. Beth Ann Allen and Her Husband Strangely enough, I wouldn’t change the events in my life at all. Even the hard times. I went through them for a reason, and I am the person I am today because of them. I have learned empathy. I have learned that I am strong and can do hard things. I have learned that trials are here for a reason. I am going to do all that I can to help others, to take what I have learned and share my story so that they can know that there is hope and eating disorders are not impossible to overcome. I never thought I would break the cycle–a cycle filled with self loathing and depression, but I did! If you would have told me 10 years ago that I would be a group leader in an eating disorders support group I would have never believed you! I also know that if we live in a way that invites the Spirit to be with us, we can overcome all things. Even when we think we can’t. We can. We are worth more than we can imagine. And that worth doesn’t lie in a number on a scale or a waist measurement. It lies in the goodness of our hearts and being brave enough to stand up for what is true. At A Glance Name: Beth Ann Allen Location: Mesa, AZ Age: 29 Marital status: married to Jared Allen for 9 years Children: Ella-7, Rory-6, Hudson-3, Violet-1 Occupation: mother, artist Schools Attended: Mesa High School, ASU Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “For The Beauty of the Earth” On The Web: www.ellaandrory.blogspot.com Interview by Krisanne Hastings.

Missy Martz, a former atheist, is married to a marine who has been deployed five years out of their eleven-year marriage and is presently stationed in Okinawa, Japan. She talks about her incredible conversion as she traveled around the country in search of meaning, and then discusses how the gospel has balanced her life and supported her during difficult times while she is far from home and family while her husband is deployed for long periods of time. Tell me a little about yourself and your background before joining the Church. I did not grow up in an LDS family, but my mother tried her best to teach us the stories of the Savior from the Bible. She taught us about being honest, having compassion, and respecting ourselves and others. My mom came from a Lutheran family but I only remember going to church on Christmas Eve. The service was spoken in Latin and we thought it was more comical than uplifting, often times embarrassing our mother with our obnoxious laughter. As I came into late adolescence, the theories of evolution and the sciences of creation really fascinated me, leading me to disbelieve in God or a higher power of creation. In other words, I became an atheist. I was, however, thankful for the morals that I was taught in my youth. Tell me aboour conversion. I grew up in the very small town of Dover, Ohio. Dover’s had some hardships throughout the years. It used to be a nice upper middle-class area but, about 20 years ago, the businesses supporting the town closed down. Many people were out of work and found drinking as a way to lessen their sorrows. The town’s youth spent their time doing drugs or having sexual relations. It was not a happy place or time. All I could think about was getting out of that town and how it had nothing to offer me. On my nineteenth birthday, I decided to try and find my real dad who I hadn’t seen since I was three. Finally, after a long search, I contacted an aunt who knew who I was and she lead me to my father in Milwaukee. The road led me to Wisconsin and this was where all my travels began. Here I was, in a big city full of lights, big buildings, interesting people and many things I had never experienced back home in my little town. I wanted to see more, so on I went. Visiting each city, I would get a job laying tile and I would make enough money to tour the area like any normal tourist. I’d never stay very long in one place, always moving from here to there as if I were searching for something. Missy Martz and Her Family In my travels I had the pleasure of meeting so many kind and wonderful people. I remember one trip where I was heading to Florida with some friends for a tiling job. My vehicle broke down in Grand Junction, CO. We were sitting on the side of the road. A tow truck pulled up and we proceeded to tell the driver that we couldn’t afford his services and only had enough money to get us to the job site. He offered to tow us anyway, throwing in dinner and a place to stay until we were able to repair our van. This man had lost his wife a year earlier and was trying to raise his young son, run a household and a business and care for his father as well. He had plenty on his plate already and yet he still had a place in his heart to take in and help a bunch of strangers. I will never forget his example and his genuine kindness. I also met many who had lost their way. I found myself in some pretty uncomfortable situations at times but no harm ever came to me. Looking back, I feel that Heavenly Father blessed me with the power of discernment. I was always very good at judging someone’s character and I think that’s what kept me safe on my journeying. Though I came across many people who were in darker places, I tried not to judge. I found myself helping them when they needed or wanted help. Such experiences, seeing people at their lowest, kept me from ever wanting such a lifestyle. I felt compassion for them and was able to feel their despair so much that I never needed to experience those things for myself. After three years, I ended up in California meeting these two brothers, Dan and Jerry, who owned their own plumbing company. They wanted a tile setter so they could start installing showers and I was their girl. Unbeknownst to me, they were both LDS, one active and one less active. At the time, I was somewhat irresponsible and tried to avoid goodbyes at all costs. I didn’t think I was meant to stay in one place for too long, and I was planning on leaving. The night before I planned on my unannounced departure, I was invited to dinner at Jerry’s house. He must have been inspired, because he started telling me the story of this boy named Joseph Smith. He had never mentioned anything related to the subject before. Right away, without a doubt in my soul, I knew what he was saying to be the truth. I did not know what was in that book called Mormon, but that didn’t matter to me. I could not shake the truth of it. I have been told that I was every missionary’s dream. To have an investigator, not to mention an atheist, take all the discussions in one week, accept the Word of Wisdom (I smoked and drank at the time), and want to be baptized—well, it was very unusual. I went to the LDS church for the first time the next Sunday and the following week, I was baptized. Missy Martz and Her Husband What do you think helped prepare you for that moment to just accept the gospel after all the experiences you had had leading up to that point? I think it had a lot to do with the searching I did. I was always looking for something. God was always preparing me through hardships and new experiences, and I think He prepared me through all the people I met along with way. I was humbled by knowing them and I think that is how I was able to feel the Spirit so strongly. Heavenly Father works in mysterious ways. I believe that I was also prepared to be an eternal companion for my husband. He had been inactive for several years and came back to the Church a year prior to my conversion. He received his endowments, was a faithful priesthood holder and was ready to start his family. Many LDS women found him unfavorable because of his tattoos, being previously married and not having been on a mission. Mike was about to give up and start dating non-members. He had been praying and Heavenly Father had been listening. With the lives that we had both lived, when we got married it helped us understand each other. Tell me more about your husband. During the week before my baptism, my boss took me to an LDS dance for young single adults. I really did not want to go and had a special place in my heart for one of the missionaries who had taught me the discussions, but Jerry, my boss, wanted me to meet other Mormons. I was the only one clinging for life against the walls of the cultural hall except for this other guy hanging out on the opposite corner. We were both just standing there so I introduced myself. I told him about my conversion and of my baptism date. I ended up getting his number. I didn’t invite him to my baptism but I did end up calling him only because I said I would. We did baptisms for the dead on our first date. I felt torn: I wanted to serve a mission, so I prayed about this guy I had met, Mike, and what I should do. I have never felt the Spirit so strongly in my life, or since, and I have never been so sure about an answer. Even though I didn’t know who this person was, I knew Heavenly Father wanted this man for me. I told Mike that I’d prayed and that we should be together. Though I felt insane and extremely embarrassed about the whole situation, I just had to go for it. Seven weeks after our very first meeting, we were married. One year later on our anniversary, we were sealed in the temple. Tell me about your husband's military career. When we got married, Mike had already been in the military for ten years. We’ve been married for eleven years and have three children, ages nine, seven, and four, and my husband has been deployed for over half of our marriage. He has been sent several times to Guam, the Philippines, Tinian, Thailand, five times to Okinawa, Japan and three times to Iraq. While he was home, he was still always gone doing “mini-deployments” anywhere from a few weeks to several months at a time in the States. We have been blessed to be able to be stationed with him here in Okinawa. He is currently in a non-deployable unit and because of this he has been able to serve in our military branch presidency. What does your husband do in the military? For most of his career he has worked in Avionics fixing the communication, navigation and electrical weapons systems on the Hueys and Cobra helicopters. Basically anything with a computer and wires. Now he is a Personnel and Asset Manager where he supervises those who do his old job. What are the positive aspects of being in the military? I love the military, and after getting into genealogy and searching my own family line, I have discovered a huge wealth of military history in my family. My grandmother was in the army for twelve years; her brother was in the army and the marines, and I have a long line of military service in my family that I didn’t even know existed. My travels helped prepare me to be adaptive because in the military you are moving around often and starting over from scratch each time. It’s hard at times when you can’t bring certain belongings with you, when you have to leave behind friends and start all over again. But I’m thankful for the stability the job has given us, especially during hard economic times, and for the medical benefits and the opportunities my husband has had to further his training and education. The military has a lot to offer and it is hard, but the benefits can outweigh the hardships. Do you want to stay in the military after this tour? I think so. I like to travel and see the world and I think it’s also good for the kids. It helps make them so well rounded to experience different cultures and places. We have tried to always make our home a place where things are consistent and where they can grow and express themselves. Just like the Church is the same no matter where you go, we share that same concept about our home. Missy Martz and Her Family How has the gospel helped and supported you through the challenges of being in the military? Being far away from family has been challenging, especially when I was a new mother. Five months after I had Robley, my first son, my husband was deployed to Okinawa, Japan for 6 months. I was left behind in California without support because all of my family resided on the East Coast. But I did find comfort in the Church members and they quickly became my “adopted” family. I found it very hard to cope at first because I wasn’t exactly sure what to do with this new baby. Luckily for me, there were several sisters also going through the same thing as I. I was not alone and we quickly found each other and united. I rely on my Heavenly Father to get me through those really tough times. He blesses me with home and visiting Teachers, spiritual men and women sent my way to remind me of selfless service, compassion, humility, and love. During times of despair and extreme loneliness, I’ve always had my Heavenly Father for comfort. He has been there to tell me it’s okay and that I can make it and that I can be strong. I thank my Heavenly Father that I have been given the gift of my fellow members and for lessening my burdens by bringing me aide. Life as a military wife without such support is unimaginable to me. The gospel really brings a light to my life and fills that void of despair with happiness, comfort, joy, and love. How do you feel you have grown since joining the Church? Growing is an ongoing process as with us all. I think that for me, knowing that my family can be eternal and knowing that there’s a greater plan for me is something that I really hold on to. My parents and siblings struggle. They don’t have the gospel truths in their lives and sometimes their lives just seem so chaotic and without any peace. Sometimes I feel guilty that I have so much joy in my life where there is so much suffering in theirs, much of which could easily be resolved by living the teachings of the gospel. I just try to set the best example I can, testify of what I know to be true when I can, and be patient for them. As an adult convert to the Church, how do you feel you fit into the typical Mormon mold? To me, there is no typical Mormon mold. I have been lucky to have seen so many walks of life, being in the military and traveling to so many different places. I’ve met converts, those who have been in the Church their whole lives, nonmembers who should be members, those who are active but less active than some, members who are completely inactive, and those who have come back from inactivity. I was even fortunate enough to meet this amazing sister who had been excommunicated and was able to repent of her sins and have the courage to come back to the Church. We are all so different and each in our very own stage of life. Even to this day I am in awe as to why Heavenly Father chose me to hear Jerry’s words at that particular point in my life or how it was even possible that I had. We are all being prepared. As to when it is our time, no one knows so I am always open to all walks of life in hopes that we all make it to our eternal goal. At A Glance Name: Missy Martz Location: Okinawa, Japan Age: 33 Marital status: Married Occupation: Mother and military wife Children: Robely (boy, 9) Oran (girl, 7) Seifer (boy, 4) Schools Attended: High school graduate Languages Spoken at Home: English, learning Japanese Favorite Hymn: “Joseph Smith’s First Prayer” Interview by Melissa Petrini. Portrait by Melissa Petrini.

Bindu Sabbavarapu joined the church in her hometown of Visakhapatnam, India, in the face of cultural and familial barriers. She married another Indian Mormon and together they are striving to pursue lives that bear witness to their families of the goodness of the gospel. Soon after her marriage, Bindu immigrated to the United States, where she and her husband are pursuing advanced degrees and raising their 10-month-old baby girl. Although the gospel transcends culture, Bindu’s interview reflects the challenge of practicing a religion in a nation where Christians and Mormons in particular are a significant minority. How did you discover the church? I come from a place called Visakhapatnam; in short, we call it Vizag. We had only one mission when I joined the Church—the India Bangalore Mission. Four missionaries came to our city to start a home group. Through my friend’s brother, my friend and I met the missionaries. She was interested in the gospel. She invited me and we both went together. This happened almost ten years ago. When we went to church that Sunday—interestingly it was a fast and testimony Sunday. It was all new to me. My husband and I went to missionary schools in our city. The predominant religion is Hinduism. A very small percent are Christians and I was used to seeing huge Roman Catholic churches. At first when she took me into the apartment, I was confused. Bindu Sudhir Sabbavarapu and Her Husband the Day Their Daughter was Born Inside there were four missionaries. By then there were at least eight to ten members. That was sacrament meeting in the living room of the elders’ apartment. That small home group turned into a branch. Now we have three branches back home, and a district. When I sit in sacrament meetings today in Utah with huge congregations I still feel the same spirit I felt in that small apartment with those four elders blessing and passing the sacrament. It is just a wonderful feeling. What led you to investigate and join the church? Growing up as a Hindu I was part of many religious rituals with my family. When I asked my parents why we were doing those rituals, most often, the answer was that it how it should be done, that is how our ancestors did it, or it is good to do. Many times, I wondered the reason and meaning behind those rituals. At the same time, I think my parents taught me good principles in life. They were God-fearing and taught me to be honest, to dress modestly, to study well and much more. I would like to say those were the basics that prepared me to embrace the gospel in my life. On the other hand going to the missionary school helped me know more about Jesus Christ and his teachings. My mom reminds me that when I was a little girl I used to get a small Christmas tree from school and celebrate Christmas by hanging it with greeting cards and ornaments. I used to hide my interest in Christianity because of my dad’s strict religious views in Hinduism. He used to manage the affairs of a local Hindu temple apart from his busy full time job. Bindu Sudhir Sabbavarapu and Her Husband the Day They Were Sealed in the Salt Lake Temple However, I never thought of becoming a Christian until I met the missionaries and learned more about the Church. I learned from the scriptures and understood the standards of the Church like going to church regularly to renew the covenants, communicating with our Father in Heaven through prayers, the Word of Wisdom, Family Home Evening, serving, and teaching one another and many more. This is what I wanted in my life. Learning more about the gospel drew me closer to Christ, and the testimony I gained about the Savior played an important part in my being part of this true church for which I am eternally grateful. How did your family respond to your decision to join the church? I did not have my parents’ permission to be baptized so I had to wait until I turned 18. A week after my 18th birthday I was baptized secretly. I started preparing to get a temple recommend and I did not feel comfortable with one of the questions in the temple recommend interview because I thought I deceived my parents. I have a close connection with my family. I have two sisters, one who is older and one who is younger than me, who are close friends, and my mom is a great friend too. We shared our secrets with my mom. My dad was really strict with us. My friends used to call him “tiger”. But my mom gave us the freedom we needed. With my dad, we knew what we were supposed to do especially regarding his expectations for our education. With my mom, we knew we had that friend at home. I now think it was a great balance with the way our lives turned out to be. With these kinds of relationships, I felt bad not telling my parents and my sisters that I had been baptized. I started with my youngest sister and told her. She freaked out. She said my dad was going to kill me. She is a year and a half younger than I am, and she said we should go to our older sister and put this problem to her to see what we should do. We then told my older sister and she reacted the same way. Bindu Sudhir Sabbavarapu and Her Husband Eventually my sisters helped me to go to church every Sunday. My younger sister used to accompany me to the church some times. They really did not understand why I joined the church but they always helped me. This went on for almost five years. My mom eventually found out because I write in my journal regularly. My mom knew I was doing something apart from my assignments. She knew I was writing about something in my journal, and she used to ask me what it was. I told her I wrote my feelings and that I feel good going to the church. My mother was always worried, since she is an Indian woman who is dependent on my father like most Indian women are. She loves my father and does not want to hurt him in any way, but at the same time she loves me and wants me to be happy. It was a tough spot to be in. After few years, my dad knew I was going to church, and we had a big argument. He was mad and said, “What’s wrong with you? What have I not given you? You can have Christian friends; it doesn’t mean that you have to go to their church and become a Christian.” For few years, we never discussed it again. I had to move out for my studies, I graduated with a Bachelors degree in Information Systems, and always performed up to my dad’s expectations. We three sisters graduated with engineering degrees in different specializations. He always supported us to get the best education. Because of my education I always had great jobs and my dad was proud of me. Once when I was promoted as an Assistant Manager Operations in one of my jobs I was home when I heard the news and I saw my family so happy for me and took the opportunity to let them know that all the good that happened in my life were the blessings from God. I told them that Heavenly Father was watching for me. I expressed my feelings about the gospel and why I wanted to be a Latter-day Saint. I requested my dad to remove the social barriers like caste and religion and asked him to understand my desire. To see my dad from becoming furious to being calm and listening to me was another blessing in my life. I am grateful for my parents who were supportive of my beliefs and who had to overcome social barriers from relatives of why I was going to a Church. I am grateful for the opportunity that my parents took to come to Utah to see my beautiful daughter and the way we lead our lives in the gospel. Did your family approve of your marriage to your husband? Were they used to your faith at that point? I always thought I was going to marry whomever my parents chose. My dad wanted me to marry one of my relatives. I always wanted to find out how that guy would react about my membership in a church. Little did I know then that Heavenly Father had a plan for me. I just knew my husband as one of the branch members and never ever thought I would be married to him. I was away in a different city pursuing my Bachelors and he went and served a mission. When he returned from his mission he wanted to marry someone from the church. My husband tried to know more about me and even if I wanted to know about him I was always worried about my dad’s thought of marrying me off to my relative. I fasted and prayed a couple of times to see if he was the right person. Apart from my fear, I always felt good about my husband. He is a fabulous husband and a wonderful father to my daughter. When we thought about getting married to each other, we thought that it was going to be fine since his family was Roman Catholic. However, it did not work that way. I never thought my parents would approve. Once again, it all happened because of my sweet sisters and my dear mom who convinced my father. I am sure the spirit touched him. When did your husband join the church? Did he join the church in the same way you did? He also had a friend who introduced him to the church, and he was 19 when he joined the church. When he wanted to serve a mission for the church, his mom did not approve at first. My husband is very patient, and he loves his mom to death. In India, as the oldest son, he is the fatherly figure for the siblings and his mom’s favorite. It was hard for him to do anything against family’s wish. He fasted, prayed, and knew he should do what Heavenly Father wants him to do. Eventually his mom knew he was going to serve Jesus Christ; that is the reason his parents approved for him to serve a mission. His parents also had social and family barriers about my husband joining the Church and marrying a girl from the church. Eventually he baptized his brother, and his brother served a mission nine months apart from when he did. When he came back from his mission, he always thought, as I did, that he was going to make his family happy by marrying whom they wanted. However, he could not deny the spirit. Bindu Sudhir Sabbavarapu and Her Family Were you sealed in the temple? We were struggling between making our families happy and at the same time trying to follow the gospel. In those circumstances, all we needed was someone to support and re-assure that what we were doing is the right thing to do. Our spiritual and moral support is my husband’s Mission President and his wife. As my husband just returned from his mission, we could not think of anyone else who could understand us better. Counseling with them was an answer to one of our prayers and I am grateful for that inspiration that my husband had. My husband always dreamed about pursuing higher education in the United States. He strongly felt the need to go and pursue his education then and somehow find a way to be married to me. At first I was not supportive of his plans as I would miss my family and him too if he was gone. He always assured that it was going to work out. He is a great example of putting the trust in the Lord and following the promptings of the spirit. I have seen that time and again in all the decisions we have taken in our lives so far. Missionaries used to show the picture of the Salt Lake Temple when teaching about temples. I always thought that is something I would see only in pictures and never did I imagine or dream that I would be sealed with my husband in the Salt Lake Temple. On September 10, 2008 we were sealed together for eternities. All throughout it has been an amazing journey. There were times we feel bad for not making our families happy but the joy that comes by following the gospel completely overshadows that. Especially now with our beautiful daughter being born in the covenant makes me feel it is all worth it. After I was done with my Bachelors I thought I was done studying but my husband always reminded me of President Hinckley’s statement about education. He encouraged me to pursue my Masters. I recently graduated with a Masters of Business Administration and my husband graduated from BYU, Marriott School of Management. The jobs that we have been blessed with help us to be self-reliant and progress in our lives. My daughter is now ten months old and she is the best thing that ever happened to us. She is a happy baby and brings so much joy into our lives. Do you feel like a pioneer in a way, like you are in new territory and are forging a path that generations will follow? Yes, definitely. This is the kind of story that I am sure you can hear throughout the world where there are cultural barriers and opposition for people to join the church. I am sure there are many people in my own country who are the pioneers for their generations in future. When we study about Mormon pioneers and their experience, ours seems to be nothing. We are dealing with differences in culture and opinions but our pioneers had to walk miles, cross-icy waters, and frozen lakes to get to the valley, and most of them lost their loved ones and themselves through their journey to follow the gospel. I am grateful for their sacrifices and for their example. The whole purpose of fighting against the cultural barriers is to be active in the Church and to be able to have our posterity in the gospel. It is a crazy world out there and there is a great need for children to be raised in good homes and by good parents. Our parents are certainly wonderful examples of good parents because they have taught us great principles and prepared us to receive the gospel no matter they agree or not. My husband and I feel very privileged to be here and have the amazing experiences that we have had and will have in the future. We are blessed to hear from the Prophets and Apostles who guide us in these latter days. Following their counsel has helped us greatly in our lives. The best part about living in Utah is to be around so many temples. Coming from India where there is no temple yet we enjoy living closer to the temples. We have had opportunity to write names of our family and friends in India who were in need of prayers. I treasure the special spirit while performing various ordinances in the temple and we are looking forward to complete the temple work for our ancestors. Bindu Sudhir Sabbavarapu What do you feel is in the future for you? Do you feel like you will stay here for a while or are you just here until you are done with school and then try to go back to India? Every decision we took in our lives was through fasting and prayer. My husband and I have always experienced amazing blessings by counseling with the Lord and we never went wrong when we involved Heavenly Father in the decisions we took. We always wanted to gain all the knowledge that we could gain through our education here, by meeting people, and through our experiences here and use, those skills and knowledge back home. I would love to re-unite with my family and meet my husband’s family if an opportunity is given and at the same time, we would want to wait and see what is in stored for us. For right now the plan is to go back home after completing our education and gain some work experience that will help my husband have a better career in India. Being a parent, I realize that it is very important to teach my daughter to do the right thing. I am glad I am not alone in this journey. I am grateful for the help and counsel that I receive from that Lord and from my dear husband to teach my daughter. Living here taught me many wonderful lessons in life which I am very grateful for. At A Glance Name: Bindu Sudhir Sabbavarapu Location: Salt Lake City, UT Age: 28 Marital status: Happily married since 09/10/2008 to the best man ever Children: One 10 month old daughter Schools Attended: RVR & JC College of Engineering for Bachelors in India, Stevens Henager College for Masters in Salt lake City Convert? 2001 Occupation: Project/Business Analyst Languages Spoken at Home: Telugu & English Favorite Hymn: "Count Your Blessings" Interview by Elizabeth Pinborough.

When health challenges derailed CK’s dreams of being a dancer, she resourcefully pursued another interest, fashion design, which led her to start her own business: the modest dress company Shabby Apple. CK’s vision for her company stems from her belief that fashion can be a powerful tool for emphasizing women’s femininity and even their spirituality, as well as a tool for charitable giving. Recently married at 32, CK reflects on how the process of starting her own company has led to her mature views on marriage. Do you have a background in fashion design? When I was a kid I wanted to be in fashion, but I can’t sew at all. I tried sewing briefly, and I’m terrible. I’m horrible. In fact, I am so bad that I remember in high school we had to take either home economics or auto shop. I opted for auto shop because I didn’t want home economics to ruin my GPA. Fashion design was something I really wanted to do–I’ve always loved clothes, and I’ve always known about fabrics and trends–but I just didn’t think it was a possibility. In college, because I love design, I majored in Art History. While there, I took a class called the History of Costume; this was basically a history of fashion. I loved it! That class gave me the confidence to consider doing something in fashion. While also in college, I took as many dance classes as I possibly could. I really, really wanted to be a professional dancer. After I graduated, I moved to London to study modern dance at a conservatory. But, as is often the case in life, things didn’t work out as I’d hoped! I’d anticipated becoming a strong, first-class dancer as the year progressed. Instead, despite my extra strength-training sessions and joining a gym, I became a first class wimp. Upon returning to the states, I learned that I had a rare health condition that was galvanized by over-exercise. For treatment, I moved to San Francisco, where I also worked for Amnesty International. After a year, I decided to move to New York to study social work. But, again as is often the case in life, things worked out differently than planned! After a year of school, I again had to move back to San Francisco to receive medical treatment. However, I was able to finally complete my degree a year later. While finishing this degree, I was still nursing my health and found that I didn’t have the bandwidth to be very social or to be very physically active. Bored, I ordered a book from Amazon entitled something like Fashion Design for Dummies. I remember sitting in a café, reading the book cover to cover and deciding that this was much more interesting than my term paper. Upon finishing graduate school, my medical issues forced me to move in with my parents in Salt Lake City. I wanted to continue on with social work but couldn’t work on any sort of predictable schedule. Yet, in a way, this was an unexpected blessing in my life. This actually allowed the room in my life for me to start Shabby Apple. I had a good friend, Emily McCormick, who partnered with me and gave me the courage to actually do it! I started Shabby Apple thinking that it would be an interesting side project and found that I loved it more than any other job I had wanted. Athelia LeSueur (CK) What was your vision for Shabby Apple? Having been endowed at 23, I had had modesty on my mind for a long-time. Dressing modestly was particularly difficult in the New York summer. In a land of tube tops, short shorts and 95 degree weather, my long-sleeved cardigans seemed both a fashion and a temperature faux pas. I remember a guy I was dating breaking up with me by saying, “Anyone who wears a t-shirt under a sundress doesn’t see the world the same way that I do.” It’s funny but it was also kind of true! It was way too hot in New York during the summer to wear pants. There was 100% humidity. I had no air conditioning. There were no summer dresses or skirts that I could wear that were modest. Finding clothes like that was virtually impossible. All of the summer dresses I owned required that I wear a cardigan over them to keep them modest. In that kind of weather, wearing a sweater was tantamount to suffocation. I started to realize that somebody needed to design dresses that have sleeves and a longer hemline. It was a real need. I remember thinking, “There should be clothing options that make women feel beautiful and allow them to feel spiritual.” (Or maybe that at least allowed their boyfriends to break up with them for a different reason.) That was about three years before I started Shabby Apple. How did you know how to start a business with virtually no business training? I think the thing that most worked in my favor was that I didn’t know what I didn’t know! If I had known how difficult it was going to be, I don’t think I would have done it. Starting out, I knew only that I had to sell the dresses for more money than I bought them for. That was pretty much the extent of my business knowledge. What I also knew, however, was how to figure out how to do things I didn’t know how to do. For example, I didn’t know anything about fashion design, so I Googled everything I could about the subject. (Google is magical for many things when starting a business.) I remember one particular weekend when I had just broken up with a boyfriend, and was quite crushed. One of my girlfriends came out from California to visit. We spent the whole weekend watching movies (about breakups) and emailing thousands of factories all over the world. I kept emailing factories even though I had pretty much no idea what I was doing. (I tried to keep this fact hidden.) Because most factories want to work with larger companies like Gap or J. Crew, it took a long time to find a factory that was willing to work with us. I also flew to New York and simply walked around the streets looking for fabric warehouses. I started by asking salespeople in the fabric stores such brilliantly sophisticated questions as, “Where are the other fabric stores?” or “Can I get this online?” Athelia LeSueur (CK) and Her Husband Can you describe the evolution of Shabby Apple? Shabby Apple has definitely grown organically. My parents lent me space in their house, so I started storing dresses on the second floor. I would literally wake up in the morning in my pajamas and start shipping inventory from the house. Eventually the business grew into my parent’s garage and then into a warehouse. The business itself developed in lurches–at the very beginning it took off much faster than I anticipated. This was good but challenging because we didn’t have the inventory to meet the demand. We also had some problems coming up with the second line which didn’t go as well as the first line had. Since then, though, we’ve almost doubled our revenue every year. Hiring for the company has also been really organic. At first I was shipping packages by myself, and then I had a friend who began helping me. Eventually, we found a full-time shipper. I also did all of the customer service myself and then finally hired a customer service representative. My partner and I initially did about 95% of the design. Recently, we have launched a couple of lines that are created by a guest designer which, I think, gives our clothes a fresh approach. I’ve ended up hiring mostly women for these jobs. This wasn’t intentional. I definitely don’t have anything against hiring men. In fact, we’ve worked with two or three men at Shabby Apple. Having a woman-based company has been fun, though! As women we work together more collaboratively than hierarchically. At company meetings I ask for feedback from everyone; we all come up with ideas and then decide together on the best ideas. It’s definitely not a command and control environment. I think it’s a much more pleasant and effective methodology. How did you apply your background in social work to Shabby Apple? When I was first staring out I knew that I wanted my business to be women oriented. I had gone into social work specifically to help women. So I decided to incorporate charitable giving into my business plan. I thought, “Wouldn’t it be ideal to have a company that channels funds into something I believe in?” I figured that the perfect way to do that would be to work with microcredit. For the last few years, we’ve been donating a portion of each sale to a microcredit organization called Unitus that gives women throughout Africa and Asia small loans to start up their own businesses. Five percent of our net profits go towards these women. There is also a place on our website that invites people to donate $5.00 every time they buy a dress. We get a fair amount of money through this that we give to Unitus as well. Currently we’re trying to determine our approach moving forward. What is the best way to help women? As an organization we have to figure out if we want to keep working with microcredit or if we want to do something else to support women. Either way, I believe it will continue to be a strength for our company. Every so-often during our company meetings, we talk about how much we’ve donated and what we’ve done to help certain women. It’s been a motivating experience for everyone. How do you think fashion be empowering for women? I think fashion is like music: it can be powerfully uplifting or it can tear one down. Fashion can make one feel beautiful, no matter what a person looks like. If one wears something that is both flattering and respectful, one acts like a respectful person. That’s why people at private schools often have their students wear uniforms. That’s why we dress up for church. You behave differently when you’re dressed better. In college, my Mormon friends and I talked about the idea of radical feminism. It’s a belief that states that women and men are coequal but inherently different. This is what the church teaches. I think clothing can celebrate that inherent femininity, without compromising self-respect. In the work place and in life, if we can’t respect ourselves it’s very hard to demand respect from others. For example, if a woman goes into the workplace wearing a halter top, it doesn’t matter how smart and capable she is, no one is going to associate those qualities with her. That’s too bad. It’s unfortunate that as women, we sometimes sabotage ourselves. We should command respect and attention outside of our sexual appeal. I don’t think celebrating our femininity through fashion and commanding respect for our inner-selves are mutually exclusive. Those things can happen in conjunction when we dress and behave appropriately. Athelia LeSueur (CK) Starting up a business is a somewhat non-traditional pursuit for an LDS woman. Did you feel support from your family and religious community during this process? Initially, my parents were nervous! I didn’t have any business or fashion design experience, and my personality was not one who would have been voted Entrepreneur of the Year. Out of the 7 children in my family 3 have MBAs. I am not one of them. My parents said, “Of all of our children, you’re the last one we would have ever thought would start a business.” About 6 months in, though, my dad realized that I really liked it, and he couldn’t have been more encouraging. He and my mom even gave me a statue of a ‘flying pig’ to celebrate their surprise at my decision. In general, my dad has always been supportive of women. He consistently stressed the education of women in my home and always made my sisters and me feel that our actions and spirits defined us, not our appearance or dating status. Athelia LeSueur (CK) As for my religious community, I attended a ward for six years in the Bay Area that was really supportive of women pursuing interesting career paths. I had three bishops in that ward, all of whom were extraordinarily supportive as well. Finally, I had mentors in that ward who were doing really interesting things with their lives. I was really lucky! When I was younger and just graduated from high school, however, I didn’t feel that kind of support. Instead of thinking about marriage as a sacred covenant and a new stage in my life, I conceptualized marriage as the ultimate success, like Prince Charming ready to take me to his castle! I’m unsure whether that came specifically from my LDS community or (I’m embarrassed to admit!) all of the romantic comedies I watched as a teenager. Either way, I’m very grateful that I got married later because my view of marriage shifted with age. I learned that I had to live my own life and make my own decisions. I learned that for me, starting a company was part of that process and that marriage wasn’t going to “save” or “rescue” me from anything. I learned that marriage is about finding an equal partner to share my life, not determine its path. I’ve since married someone who is really understanding. I feel like he’ll support me in whatever I choose. I don’t feel pressured into being a successful business woman and I also don’t feel pressure to quit my business. I feel really free. Growing up I bifurcated Mormon women: you’re either a rebellious, overly-educated, bitter old woman or you conform, marry young, have lots of children and are really happy. I’m glad I have since learned that this is a false dichotomy. I really enjoy my job. Yet, I also firmly believe that as women, we have a divine mandate to procreate and be mothers. There are many complex and interesting conversations about women’s choices within the context of our LDS culture. These conversations can be healthy and I believe will become more frequent as we become more accepting of the differences in women’s life decisions. Did you ever feel like you were destined to create Shabby Apple? Philosophically, I don’t know if everything in life happens for a reason. I think that destiny may be involved but I never know to what degree. I believe that most of our life path is determined by personal choice. I read an article in my early twenties about failure that had a huge impact on me. It theorized that that the people who do the best in life are those who take failure and decide that they’re going to find meaning in it. I love this notion because it doesn’t claim that failure ‘happens for a reason’. Rather, as people who fail, we can choose to make these experiences meaningful. It is this choice that matters. I’m so glad I read this because I kept failing! I wanted to dance. I didn’t. I wanted to have a human rights career. I didn’t. I wanted to have a counseling career. I didn’t. However, I remember making a conscious decision that I was going to derive some sort of meaning from these failures. I decided that I wanted to make sure that I made my life better after these failures than it would have been had I never had them. I don’t really know if I’m happier now with my job than I would have been as a dancer. But, I do know that I love my job and that I never would have had it had I kept dancing. At A Glance Name: Athelia Woolley LeSueur (CK) Location: New York, NY Age: 32 Marital status: Married Occupation: Fashion Designer, Owner of Shabby Apple Schools Attended: Stanford University, Laban Center of Dance, Columbia University (BYU for one semester) Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “The Spirit of God” On The Web: www.shabbyapple.com Interview by Krisanne Hastings. Wedding portrait by Joshua Brown.

As an early member of the Church in Moscow, Tatiana was an essential contributor to the establishment of the gospel in Russia. For seven years, she led a choir of church members that sang hymns and folk songs, toured with their performances and recorded albums. Tatiana speaks astutely about the impact of Russian culture on spirituality in her country and about the tremendous work she’s put into building the Church in her homeland. What was your religious background before you learned about the Church? I had nothing to do with religion. Nothing at all whatsoever. My parents were rather atheist. It was that kind of a time; everyone figured that God didn’t exist, and we didn’t talk about it at home. I just never thought about it. I only started thinking about it because my husband, Alexei, brought it up. He had been thinking about it, and we started to discuss it. One day we had an active discussion for a long time. We decided that we needed religion somehow. We figured that God existed and we believed in Christ. We realized that we knew God was in heaven and we are here on earth, and we wanted to somehow formalize our relationship with him. We thought a lot about how to do it. We have the Russian Orthodox Church here in Russia, so we decided we needed to be baptized and build some kind of relationship with the Church. That was in 1993. We thought about it for a long time, and then were baptized. It was a completely conscious decision. We were baptized by full immersion in water. We found a very good priest who could discuss things with us, complete immersion in water, all as it should be. It was in a church. Not all churches do it, but we found a church that did it that way, because we knew that there should be total immersion in water. Tatiana Marchenko and Her Husband at the Kiev Temple Had you read the Bible? We read it all, and that’s how we learned baptism should be done by complete immersion in water. After that we were baptized. A month and a half or two months went by, and we met missionaries, Elders Tobias Bradford and Garth Quigley. They saw us on the metro. The whole family was walking together. We had just come out of the Tretyakov Gallery; it was the weekend. They saw us and ran after us in the metro, which was quite crowded. The Spirit probably prompted them and they ran after us. They overtook us and stopped us, panting, and started talking with us, and we became interested. I thought, “We’ll explain everything to them. They just don’t understand. We’ll just explain everything.” So we invited them to visit. That’s how we began to listen to the discussions, and it turned out to be very interesting. We had very strong missionaries. The Lord knew to send them to us. We talked a lot and went through all the discussions. But because we felt that our baptism was true and that we had already done what was necessary, we went a whole year as investigators. We didn’t miss one meeting. We even tried to pay tithing, but they didn’t accept it. We liked everything about the Church. We had English lessons in our home and were always very active. And then a year later, we all got our answers that we all should be baptized again, but into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I got my answer first, but I received an answer that I should listen to my husband. I felt that I wanted to be baptized, but that I should be with him. We were baptized together on May 7, 1994 in the Moscow River. It was very cold, but it didn’t matter. Were there any other obstacles to your joining the Church? No, it was just that we thought that our first baptism was true. We felt that we had made a covenant with God. It wasn’t clear to us why we should do it again. But then something happened. We read more. It wasn’t like someone could just explain that it should be a certain way. No, it had to come from an inner witness that we should commit an act of obedience and join this Church because there was a fullness of the priesthood. We had long before received a testimony that the Church was true and that the Book of Mormon was true. They were very bright, these testimonies. What changes did you see in your life after you were baptized? First of all, our very way of life changed, but that changed after we came to church. After baptism, we had a changed sense of accountability. I felt a great responsibility that I had been baptized and was now accountable. I had made a covenant with God and had to do my part. Because the Church was very young in Russia and we were the face of the Church to some extent, I had to work very hard to create something. Now we have a church building, many active Church members and priesthood holders, many wonderful sisters. But back then there were very few people. There weren’t very many branches then, and there were few people in each branch. Because of this, one person would have many callings, whereas now we have just one calling and they try not to give a second calling to anyone. But at that time I was immediately called as a Sunday school teacher, and I prepared a lesson every Sunday. I was also the music director. At the same time, a little while later, I was an Institute teacher and taught two classes a week. My husband was working for the Church Educational System. It was like full-time employment. And one of the classes was completely in English. It was very difficult, because I’m not fluent in English, and it required a lot of effort. Not that I was special in any way – many people served in several callings. I wasn’t called to do this, but I also organized many different activities: picnics, goodbye parties for missionaries. The missionaries were always very close to us at that time, like members of the family, and it was like tearing out a piece of our heart when they left. A missionary would leave the branch, and everyone would be in tears. This isn’t generally the case anymore. But it was natural then. It was a step in the Church’s development. Tatiana Marchenko with Her Youngest Son at School We also had a choir on and off, and I felt by the Spirit that we needed to start it up again. So I took on that responsibility and in time we grew into a wonderful choir. I led the choir for many years, from 1995 to 2002. I stopped leading the choir when our youngest son was born. Two wonderful conductors, Julia Burykina and Alexander Prach, continued to lead the choir and did great work. We recorded two CDs. It was certainly not the Tabernacle Choir, but we sang the hymns with the Spirit, and recorded them with a strong spirit. We traveled to different cities, including St. Petersburg, Voronezh, Nizhny Novgorod, and Khmelnitsky, in Samara. We traveled on our own dime and gave concerts. There was a strong spirit in Voronezh, and after our concerts there were many baptisms. It was such a strong spirit. We also gave concerts in Kharkov and Kiev, in the Ukraine. What kind of music did you sing? Mostly we sang hymns, but we also sang folk songs. This was one of the most wonderful chapters of my life. As a child I sang in a very good choir. It was a professional children’s choir. We rehearsed three times a week for two-and-a-half hours. I never imagined when I finished school that it would someday come in handy. Later, when I started conducting in the ward, I felt that I had a knack for it. We prepared a musical number and it turned out really well. That’s actually why I took up the choir, because I saw that it worked. The Lord gives us these talents when they’re needed. It just opened up to me like the gifts of the Spirit described in the scriptures. It was given as a gift. I never in my life planned for it. I lived my life, and it just happened in such a magical way. How many people sang in the choir? We had about 30 people from various branches. At first the missionaries helped us. After a while they stopped because they weren’t allowed to, but they weren’t necessary. We did have some problems finding male voices, but they turned up. Fewer men in general can sing. The second problem is getting them to come to sing, since they are always busy. We had basses, we had tenors – my whole family sang. My oldest son at first sang soprano, then alto, then he didn’t sing at all, and finally he started singing bass. My daughter also sang, and my husband sang bass. Rehearsals were on Sunday. We all went together from church meetings to choir practice. First we met in an apartment. We always participated in the choir, and my oldest son even found a wife in the choir. She sang alto. She also played the piano, and now they’re married and have two children. So there were many blessings. We even went to Stockholm. The entire choir traveled to the temple there and gave a concert. We had a wonderful concert there. Even the temple president came and gave us letters that we could keep to remember the evening. Everyone loved it. There was a very strong spirit, which was the most important thing; the Spirit was there. The best thing about our choir was the very strong, special spirit with which we sang. It was very cool. I have also been a teacher in the Church all my life. At this time I was still a seminary teacher. I taught my own children. And did you sense that your education as a teacher also prepared you for this calling? Yes. I was an institute teacher, then a seminary teacher. We began on another schedule, so to get on the same cycle as the rest of the Church, we ended up studying the Old Testament two years in a row. It was a special blessing. It became my favorite book. I have such a strong testimony of our church thanks to the Old Testament. I realized this is how things should be, the relationship of a prophet with God and with the people. It’s amazing. All of these prophets became like my close friends, I don’t know how to explain it. Once I was teaching a lesson on the Old Testament in Sunday school. A sister said to me, “You’re talking about David as though he is your friend, as if you drank tea with him yesterday and now you’re telling us about him.” Another time we stopped in at an Orthodox church. Sometimes there is a priest who reads the Bible. He reads it in Old Church Slavonic, but you can still understand something. I heard the priest reading a story about David. I thought, “He’s reading about my David.” I think of him as such a familiar person. Has it always been easy for you to grow in the Church and stay active, or were there any challenges after your baptism? Well, there was just so much to do. We just had to move forward. There was no time to stop. I ran, ran, ran and only stopped when my son Ilya was born. Besides all there was to do, we started taking trips to the temple and became temple workers. It was interesting that we were called as temple workers when we hadn’t even been members of the Church for a year yet. Alexei’s brother, Dmitri, was baptized, too. He was going to the temple to be sealed to his wife, Sveta, but we were still two weeks away from our year mark as members. We were allowed into the temple two weeks early to attend the sealing of Dmitri’s family. On the trip they called us as temple workers. Moscow CES Choir It was such a good period of life. Doing so much can’t and shouldn’t be like that now. Not all people are in a position to serve so much. But at that time it was needed. Because, well, if not us, then who else? And I understand that your husband has also always had many callings. Was it difficult for you to always be so busy? Somehow we just didn’t think about it. It was probably hard. But frankly, we received so much joy and so many blessings from it, I can’t even say it was hard. If it had felt hard, I might not have done it. The Lord probably blessed me in a special way. It was certainly difficult, of course; it took up so much time, but the joy from it was so great. We saw the fruits. We saw the results. I always liked to teach because it was my profession, and here I was actually realizing my potential. I had so much to do; there was no time at all to feel bored. And I realized so many of my talents. Do you think the Church is Russia has distinct characteristics? How would you explain it? I think the Church in any country has its own character because you have your own way of thinking, your own cultural traditions. These inevitably leave a mark. The Church in Japan is not like the Church in Russia, because they have very different preconceptions and understandings. They have a different way of understanding what is good and what is bad because of how they have always lived. Tatiana Marchenko Leading the Primary Choir It’s the same here. Russia has its own peculiarities. Thanks to the Orthodox Church, the Russian people have thought a lot about Christian beliefs in terms of spirituality, and they have a disdain for the material world – meaning that the material world is bad, and the spiritual is everything. This is important. And since everyone can’t be extremely spiritual, they consider themselves inherently quite sinful. Only monks and special priests can be very spiritual. The way they relate to the Church is very complicated because there were so many priests who didn’t conduct themselves worthily, who could be compared to the villains in a Russian folk tale. That’s also part of our national character concerning leaders and government. We don’t feel a need to listen to them. The people and the state are separate. It is a national characteristic. In certain countries, it’s one way, and for us, it’s another. How does this influence the character of the LDS Church in Russia? First, it’s difficult for people to obtain testimonies. It’s more difficult to obtain a testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet, because who is that? Then there is the relationship to leadership in the Church. Church leaders should be obeyed. It’s difficult for us to obtain a testimony that we should obey our leaders. We don’t always obey, and it was even a kind of special display of courage not to obey state leaders. It’s always kind of been that way. So, on the one hand, we have deep spirituality, because spiritual things were always revered. But the deepest spirituality is impossible to achieve, we are always sinful, always bad. This belief leaves a psychological imprint. It was very important for the Russian people, and it’s probably because of this that we have such beautiful Russian literature and music. We have very deep feelings, but at the same time there is a big economic gap. On the one hand, people have great spirituality and inner wisdom, and on the other hand, there is great ignorance. How would you say your extensive church service has helped strengthen your testimony? To be a member of the Church is a lot of spiritual work. It’s also like the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. One came earlier, another came later, but no matter when you come, the important thing is whether you endure to the end and preserve your testimony. When people join the Church, they have such euphoria. It’s something new, something interesting. It’s unusual for them, and there are interesting activities and interactions. Then later you have to constantly strengthen your testimony because there are many trials from different directions, things you don’t expect. But there is also a huge sense that God is watching us and that He lets us see life from all sides. Tatiana Marchenko at Her Son's Baptism If you don’t serve in the Church, big temptations come. I especially felt that when I had my first baby. Thoughts like, “I’ve done so much, now I can relax.” As soon as you start thinking like that, you move backwards. It’s not a coincidence. It’s the law of growth. It’s like a plant. If something has a place to grow, it must grow. It doesn’t stop until it’s time, and then other processes start. It begins to bloom, then fades, and then gives seeds. And then it dies, and then rises and grows again in an endless process. We are like that. We can’t stop, ever. We can never relax and say, “Look, we’ve done everything, and we’re so good that now we can relax.” We can’t ever rest spiritually. This is my message, that we always have to strive and we always have to serve. We can’t say, I served, now let others serve. It’s important to serve in everything you can. If you’re a visiting teacher, then be a visiting teacher. It’s a calling. It’s something you’re trusted with. There will come a time when it seems difficult to do even that, for various reasons. They may be objective reasons or subjective reasons. It doesn’t matter. If you do what the Lord has asked you to do, that’s what’s important. And you don’t stop. Even if there are problems, gradually, somehow, things get resolved. You just can’t stop. At A Glance Name: Tatiana Marchenko Location: Moscow, Russia Age: 49 Marital status: Married Children: Three (ages 26, 24 and 7) Convert? May 7, 1994 Language: Russian Interview by Allison Pond.

Sherry Young raised five highly educated and successful children (including Hall of Fame football quarterback Steve Young). Now she’s reveling her own opportunities to have her own newspaper column and look back on a life full of lessons. Among other words of wisdom, Sherry reflects on the hard work of marriage, the importance of friends and the realities of parenting a famous child. Tell me about your early years and how those shaped you. I was born in 1939, a difficult time because of the Great Depression and the beginning of World War II. My father managed to find enough work to keep us going, but my mother tells of sometimes sharing a can of soup for dinner and being grateful for it. In 1943 my Dad joined the Navy, so we moved to Farmington, Utah to live with my grandparents while he served on a destroyer. When my dad returned we bought a small home down the street from my grandparents and lived there until I was sixteen, when my dad got a great opportunity to work for the White Sands Missile Range in Las Cruces, New Mexico. Moving down to New Mexico was a huge change for our family. Leaving all our cousins and friends was difficult since we were Davis County residents forever, from way back when they came into the Salt Lake Valley. I hope it doesn’t sound wrong, but we called it, “going to live with the cowboys and the Indians.” I thought my life had ended, but in reality it was just beginning because the experience enlarged my world. Living in the “mission field” proved interesting, but wonderful. My dad was in the bishopric so until we finally got a ward building, I would help him go clean out the debris from the Elks Lodge so we could hold church there. It was also during that period that I learned to love the Hispanic people. Most importantly, our time in New Mexico got me ready to live in Connecticut all those years later. I think it would have been more difficult had I always lived in Utah, rather than knowing that you can build another life and life does go on. You’ve worked in education and are now a writer. What is your educational background? I started at Brigham Young University in the fall of 1957. Like most girls of my era, I studied human development and family relationships. I had an emphasis in clothing and design because I was always really interested in sewing. It’s funny because back then you had to go to a lab and burn fabric to know what was in it. Nowadays, that would be so obsolete. In fact, sewing is almost obsolete, I think, unless you’re a quilter. While at BYU, I met my football player husband, LeGrande (Grit) Young and we decided he would attend law school and I would work, so I didn’t finish my senior year of college. Instead I got a well-paying job as a secretary at Kennecott Research Center on the University of Utah campus. When we found I was expecting our first son, Steve, I quit working and went to school for another semester. I thought I would eventually go back and finish, but never did. Was it a difficult decision to quit your studies so your husband could go to law school instead? The mindset was that a girl didn’t necessarily need an education in the same way a man did, which is a fallacy, especially now, because you never know when you’ll need to lean on that. It just seemed like the thing to do because we certainly didn’t have parents who could help us and because I wanted to be a mother. If I could do it again I’d study ancient Spanish literature or something. What took your family to Connecticut and how was that transition for you personally? After graduating from law school, Grit got a job with the Anaconda Company as house counsel and we lived in a little house in the Cottonwood area of Salt Lake City. We moved to Greenwich, Connecticut, a few years later in 1970 after my husband became a labor attorney. Living in the East was a daunting experience, especially in a town like Greenwich. We didn’t live in the chi chi backcountry, but to live anywhere in Greenwich was an expensive proposition. The women tended to be very bright, well educated, take-charge, and quite aggressive, both with childrearing and their expectations in life. Because a lot of them didn’t know very many LDS people, I was their token example, and I was struggling just to keep my head above water, let alone be an example. No one treated me like I was this little hick from Utah, but that’s how I felt. I eventually overcame my own feelings of inadequacy. It was a hard period because that was the time of the big labor conflicts of the early 1970s, so my husband was traveling much of the time and I was lonely and overwhelmed. I had four little children eight years and under, everything was so new, and the church was 25 miles away in Scarsdale, NY. There was one period where Grit went to Washington and the President locked him up until they settled the strikes, so he didn’t come home for almost a month. I look back and am grateful I made it through with good neighbors, good friends, and the Church. There weren’t very many Church members in Greenwich, so I really relied on my neighbors. My experience living in New Mexico was a boon to me at that time—I’d learned to reach out beyond the Mormon experience, to make friends, and accept people for who they are and to enjoy them. My neighbor across the street became a lifelong friend and actually later moved to Salt Lake City, which is ironic. I loved my life, my husband, and my children, but those first five years were difficult ones until I could raise my head out of the cookie crumbs and diapers. I saw that I had a good mind of my own and that I actually handled myself very well, that people thought of me as a friend. It also helped when Grit was changed from the labor counsel to house counsel. There was still travel but not like it had been. How did you find fulfillment during those strenuous years of young motherhood? I think you have to just kick back, gear yourself down, and do the best you can. I baked a lot of cookies. It is a time when you can totally devote yourself to your house and to your family. We would do things together a lot because my husband was traveling so much. I’ve always loved music and my kids will tell you we played a lot of music and listened to stories on old records. You just have to fill each day with the best joy you can, and for me that was keeping the kids happy and busy. I’m the kind of person that if you get my nose in a book I forget everything around me, so I really didn’t do a lot of reading at that time. I always felt like it wouldn’t last forever and tried to keep the perspective of being the best parent I could be. Church was also a huge commitment with meetings during the week. We went into Scarsdale twice on Sunday, on Tuesday for Relief Society, and on Wednesday for Primary. It would take us at least a half hour to get there, depending on the day. We got a red station wagon a couple of years in and we’d just load it up. Sometimes we’d pick up investigators or other people’s kids and have wall-to-wall people in a nine-passenger wagon. It was so much easier because we didn’t have car seats, or seatbelts even, so the kids just bounced back and forth. Finally, in 1978, we went into the New Canaan Ward, which was closer. What advice would you give to women going through a similar stage of life? You’ve heard all of this. It goes quickly, so put your head into it and do the best that you can do because it’s such a halcyon time of learning about who you are and who your children are, and they will look back at those times with love. Of course, you can’t just have fuzzy eyeballs and just focus on them all the time; you should develop your own self and those opportunities should be taken to a point. But if you have been trying to do more than you should and take opportunities for yourself more than you serve your children, I think you’re going to be sorry someday because you never get that chance again. When you’re in it you often can’t see beyond and sometimes think, “I need to get out of here, it’s just so hard!” But when you have a child you’ve made a commitment – a commitment to love their father, a commitment to love them, and to be the best mom you can be. Don’t always be so focused on what you think you want, that you can’t change and be something else. The opportunities are there. By joining book clubs, by volunteering, by doing all kinds of things you just might find out there’s something you do well that you hadn’t any idea you could do. You have a family full of children who are highly educated and accomplished professionally. How did you encourage your children to succeed while they were growing up? Steve is a Hall of Fame football quarterback and analyst for ESPN; Mike, Tom, and Jim are doctors; and Melissa worked as the director of creative services for NuSkin until leaving to become a full-time mom. They weren’t raised in a slacker environment in any way, shape, or form. My husband expected a lot of the kids. I was the cookie baker, the knee patcher, and the hugger. We also lived in an environment in Connecticut where education was the end all, be all, and the competition at the high school really made you want to be better, so I think it had a lot to do with where we were. They were all athletes, which gets you over that hump of being afraid to fail. Athletics has played a big part in your family’s lives. Was it heavily emphasized, since your husband was a college football player, or did it just come naturally to your kids? All of our children have been outstanding athletes. I suppose the genes connected well somehow. Although Steven has received the most accolades, the others have had their own kudos enough to be happy with what they accomplished. While I think athletics came naturally, it wasn’t like they had to play football. The boys all played three sports, were all-State football players and played football at BYU. Our daughter ran track and was a high school all-American swimmer. Jimmy was a little different and did lacrosse instead of baseball. They liked athletics and it pleased their dad because he always thought it was great training. He spent a lot of his nurturing time throwing the ball to the boys and laughingly will tell people that he’s got one arm longer than the other from doing that. Would you classify yourself as athletic? Not really, but I started playing tennis when I was 30 and still play to this day. I began when Tom was young and just worked it in. I was unfulfilled athletically until that time, and it was a wonderful eye-opener to see how much fun doing something like that could be. Some friends and I decided we were going to learn and Greenwich had a great community center where we took lessons. I got to be pretty good when I was expecting Jim and had to give it up for a little bit, but I loved it so much that I went back to it fairly quickly. It is my favorite thing to do other than read or be with grandchildren. It sounds like your kids are good friends. How did you foster good relationships among your children? They were good enemies and good friends. They love each other, but believe me, they’re competitive and had their goes at it. We also tried to have Family Night. I’m not sure we did it as often as we should, but we did it. As they got older they gained respect for one another and then they needed each other. The boys all played for BYU so they helped their sibling get where they needed to go, and that created a nurturing process. The three boys being doctors also creates a friendship. Jim is going to be a dermatologist, Mike is an ER doc, and Tom is an anesthesiologist. In fact, sometimes Steve will be standing there and they’ll get doing their doctor stuff, and he’ll say, “What am I, chopped liver?” How did you deal with you and your family being in the spotlight, having a child who is a public figure? My advice to anybody who thinks that their kid is going to be in the NFL or professional basketball or anything is to be careful what you wish for. Your parenting can only go so far. For instance, what advice do you give a young man who is in the NFL making 50 times more money than you ever thought you would and has all that attention? If he doesn’t make the right decisions, then you’re in big trouble. So it’s not always the end all and be all to have someone like that. But we have been so grateful that Steve made good choices and that he was the person that could do that. Steve stayed close to the other kids so they always felt he was a sibling that cared about them, and they’ve had a lot of fun opportunities afforded them that wouldn’t normally have been available. So then you’re willing to put up with more. Because Steve is a good person, it was mostly good and we’ve had a fun ride. A lot of it is you guard your mouth. You’re careful about what you say because you certainly don’t want to cause problems for them or embarrass them. I got in trouble once after he got a concussion and a guy from the Tribune I knew really well called me and I made a comment. We’re kind of old shoes now, so it doesn’t go to our head very much. But when Jimmy was a little boy, it actually frightened me. My friend and I both watched him like a hawk because you didn’t know when some crazy person would get a wild idea. So there are good things and bad things with it. We just had a guy come to our house to interview us. We thought that was all over, but they set up cameras and asked us all the questions again. But I am Steve’s mother, so that’s part of me. You get a lot of attention because of it and we like to know that people like us for us, and not because we’re his parents. Your close friends are your close friends, and of course there are those people who will be standing and talking to you and if someone says, “Oh, did you know that they’re Steve Young’s parents?” all of a sudden they’re a lot more interested in us. It’s always amusing to see the light in their eyes go on. At what point did you gain your own testimony and how did that experience affect your outlook or approach to life? Sometimes you can go through life as an LDS person borrowing other people’s testimonies. I was active in the Church and had never really cared enough to question that on my own. But after we moved to Greenwich, I was called to be the Young Women’s president and I felt if I was to lead the young women I had to know for myself if the Church was true. I told my husband, “I’m not really sure I have a testimony; I’ve never really thought about it a lot, it was just there.” He replied, “You’ve got to ask.” It was then that I really started to ponder and pray diligently for assurance. Normally I move quickly and never sit still, and I still remember one particular morning after I’d been praying, I started going about my busy day rushing here and there. As I was walking through the living room by the bookcase it was as if someone put a hand on my shoulder and said, “Stop.” It was then I had an overwhelming feeling that the Church was indeed true and I would find much joy in serving the young women. It’s so important to stay strong in the Church, serve, do the basics, read your scriptures. It does make a change in your life and if you’re close to the Spirit when you do reach a choice or cross in the road, you will definitely be guided. I know that sounds trite, but it is so true because it’s that having that Spirit with you that will alert you to problems and dangers and will help you overcome hurdles that you never really thought that you could. What were some of your most rewarding experiences serving in the Church? When our older kids became teenagers, my husband and I taught seminary and we took turns going in to Scarsdale every morning. It was great because you really study and grow and it’s fun to be with your kids. I was also called to be the Young Women’s president about the same time Steve went to Young Men’s and I often look back at how grateful I was because I hadn’t really worked with teenagers a lot up until then. When you know what other teenagers are like, you’re a little more sympathetic with your own. Without being nosy, you have to try to find out what’s going on in their lives so that you can help. If I’d been in Primary forever, I probably wouldn’t have been such an understanding mom. After Grit retired we taught Institute. The best was Old Testament, and the two of us studied and studied. He’d just retired, so we studied every day and learned so much, although I’ve probably forgotten it all. But it was just such a wonderful blessing. If we’d been somewhere else other than Connecticut, they wouldn’t have had us be the Institute teachers, being untrained as we were. Many times like that you’re given the opportunity to serve in a capacity that really stretches you a lot. How did you decide what to pursue once your children were older – either in school or out of the house? My youngest son, Jim, was eight years old when everyone else left the house. He was a walking, talking toy to my other children and my husband and I were a little concerned about him not having siblings at home since the rest were all out west. So I just went where he went, one step behind him. The Greenwich Public School system allowed me to be a substitute teacher, and I found out that it was very rewarding and fun to be involved with the kids. I was the permanent substitute in his junior high school, and when he went to high school I did it for a while before I was asked to run a learning center part-time. Freshmen who needed assistance and supervising came in and we helped them do their English and social studies homework. I loved working in education, working with the teachers, schlepping books. My husband kept saying, “Why don’t you just go back to school so you can be a real teacher?” And I said, “Because I don’t want to grade papers!” Had I been a younger woman, I would have needed to do that to support my family. At that stage of my life, it was nice just to have it be part of my life and not my total life. I could have gone back, but I guess my lazy nature forbade me. During that time I also served on the board of Pathways, which is the mental health organization in Greenwich, and I wrote for the Greenwich Time. I had time in the learning center to write a lot of my articles. I actually kept going to the learning center for several years after Jimmy left, but then you start having children who need you for babies and different things, and so we were traveling a lot. Your life changes. How did you begin your career as a newspaper columnist? By just going with the opportunities that came to me. I certainly didn’t grow up thinking I would be a journalist or write articles. I took a lot of journalism and English courses at BYU; I always loved English literature and English classes. I was one of the crazy, silly kids who loved to diagram a sentence and I really don’t like to misspell words. In the 80s, during the Reagan era, I was called as the Church’s representative to promote Family Month in Greenwich, which I did for several years. By then I had a lot of friends and knew people because of my kids, so I got people to write articles and do spots on the local radio station. After that the editor of the op-ed page asked me to be on the board of contributors and I started writing articles. It was hit and miss for a while, and then it got to be once a month. In 2005 we sold our home in Greenwich and moved to Provo, Utah to be nearer to our family. When we moved I knew I couldn’t write for the Greenwich paper anymore because they wanted a local voice. So one day I had a light go on and sent some articles to Lee Benson of the Deseret News. He used to write for the sports page and I knew him quite well, and he forwarded my work on to the editor. Within a few hours I had another job. I was thrilled and have written a personal interest column twice a month for the Deseret News since October of 2005. Is it difficult to come up with topics to write about? I’m constantly looking for ideas, which makes you more interested in life and in people and in things about the world. My husband is a newspaper reader, so he’s always passing me articles that he thinks might help. I find inspiration all over the place. If I have a great idea, I can sit down and write and it just comes, and I can have it finished in a half hour with a few touchups. But if you have writer’s block, with that blank page staring back at you, sometimes it’s just desperation. “Oh my gosh, I’ve got to get that in!” So I just sit down and start and make it go. My favorite subject is my grandchildren, but I try not to overdo that, talking about yourself. I try to make it varied. How long do you plan to continue writing for the Deseret News? Oh, as long as they’ll let me, I guess. You know, I am 71 years old; I’ll be 72 this year. I suspect there will be a time when maybe they’ll want a younger voice, but so far it’s been great. How do you maintain close relationships with your children, now that they’re adults? Well it hasn’t been hard because mostly they need you to come and babysit. What a privilege it is to be given the responsibility of taking care of those children from time to time. As we get older, it gets more difficult to keep up with really young children. But it’s the way you get to know them, just like raising your own children. It’s nice to be able to go help out for a few days or a week, and your children can go off with a mind free of worry because you’re there. It doesn’t mean that something might not happen, because accidents happen, but certainly with grandparents there it’s going to be less likely and they’re going to be in the next best hands. What are the blessings and the challenges of each different phase of life? Service is always key to whatever you do in your life. That doesn’t mean you have to be a slave to anything, but it certainly is how you get over yourself and learn what other people are made of. And those opportunities change with the period of life you’re in. For example, I cooked and baked a lot when my children were young, but I hardly cook at all anymore. I mean, what a waste of time now, but not when you’re raising a family. My mothering was probably easier than some people’s because I had focused kids and I am grateful because our children were healthy. So I was lucky. If you have children with special needs, that totally changes your life and I have great admiration for women who deal with those challenges. I worked in the school system with children who were in special education and those kids worked harder than A students. By spending that time with our kids when they were little, by the time they got to high school and they were doing all these wonderful things with their athletics, it was so fun to just go watch them and participate. Then as they went on to college we were able to do that all over again. How have you and your husband maintained a strong relationship over the years? There’s a time when you exist through your children, and then once they leave, you have to get past that. A good marriage is a lot of hard work. Sometimes you really don’t like that person very well, sometimes you get irritated or you change in different ways, and I think it’s important to keep working at being together on things, to keep working on finding something in that person that you admire and like and keep a friendship going, or it would be easy to just exist side by side. You have to be good friends or you’ll never make it. When you’re raising your family and your husband is going to work every day, you don’t really know him the way you get to know him when he’s there 24-7. We’ve found strengths and weaknesses that we didn’t know the other had. You always work together as parents, but when he went to work and I stayed home, it was a very typical lifestyle with the man as the head of the house and the woman taking care of the house. That was our age. Now I see my kids and they share a lot more. My boys help out in the home and my daughter’s husband helps a lot. There aren’t such divisional lines from mine and my husband’s age. There were lines of demarcation when you entered that other arena, and now there are none. So now he vacuums and cleans and does all the stuff and helps. You work together on things, which is really very nice. Now that he’s retired we golf and play tennis together. He doesn’t read like I do; he does crosswords. We like each other, so we get along just fine. How can women best support each other during their various phases of life? By not judging, but accepting and just being a friend. What would we do without our friends? It’s the most wonderful thing to have a good friend who will love you no matter what. One of my dearest friends to this day is an Englishwoman whose backyard joined ours in Greenwich. She moved there just before we both had our youngest children, and we raised those boys together. She’s very different than I am, a very take-charge person, very English with this clipped verbal ability. I will take charge, but I’m also pretty easygoing too, and she was a great help while I was raising Jimmy. We’d take turns babysitting and we both say we would have never made it through that last child alone. Without someone to assist you, with no family around, she was key to survival. Where do you find the greatest satisfaction? Looking back and knowing I did my best. There were times when I could have been a much better mother, a much better wife, but I did improve and learn. I feel that I have maxed out a lot of my possibilities and I’m pleased with that. For me and my abilities, I’ve done okay and I’m glad I like myself. At A Glance Name: Sherry Young Location: Mesa, Arizona and Provo, UT Age: 71Marital status: Married Children: 5 children – Steve, Mike, Melissa, Tom and Jim Occupation: Columnist for the Deseret News Schools Attended: Bountiful High School UT, Las Cruces High School NM, Brigham Young University, University of Utah Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “This Is The Christ” Interview by Nollie Haws. Photos provided by Shamberlin Young.

Agnes is a survivor of the Rwandan genocide. Although a witness to devastating horrors, Agnes has embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ taught by the first missionaries in Rwanda, Brother and Sister Andrus, and is working to forgive those who killed her family. Agnes recently graduated from university and works as an accountant in a hotel in Kigali. A note from Sister Cheri Andrus: “Rwanda’s ongoing recovery from the 1994 genocide has been truly inspirational. Leading the way as a center of ecotourism, the country is now the world’s premier destination for tracking the endangered mountain gorilla. “The Rwandan genocide spanned 100 days in 1994, commencing on April 5 and coming to a close mid July. Approximately one million people were killed and many seriously injured. Most killed were Tutsi’s, but nearly one third were moderate Hutus who didn’t support the genocide. The Tutsi villages were targeted and destroyed, churches and schools demolished, all Tutsi people within sight killed. The people doing most of the killing were the Hutus and Hutu militia. Besides the people to blame who were doing the killing, there were also those who didn’t intervene. The Rwandan genocide is widely recognized as an extreme failure of the international community to protect people at risk of mass scale atrocities. 99.9% witnessed violence 87.5% saw dead bodies or parts of bodies 79.6% experienced death in the family 69.5% witnessed someone being killed or injured 61.5% were threatened with death “Fortunately, Rwanda is a safe place to live today. In a recent study on safest cities in Africa, Kigali, the capitol, scored very high. “My husband and I have been serving a mission in Rwanda since March 2010. We are the first and only missionaries in this country. Our responsibilities include humanitarian projects, meeting with government officials, and branch support. We have had the opportunity to teach and baptize 30 people in the past year. Since there is currently no proselyting in Rwanda, we teach family and friends of members. It is heartwarming to see the joy the gospel brings into their lives. Many of them were orphaned during the genocide. We love these people and are grateful for the opportunity to serve here.” I, Sister Agnes, want to share my story with others by answering the questions which were given to me in order to help me to write my story. How did you learn about the Church? It is a long story but it is very important to me to talk about it. It was in 2006 when I met for the first time my two cousins, and one of them was a church member. At that time I was preparing to continue my studies at the University of Kigali. My cousin Yvonne asked me to live with her and I came to live together with her. When I lived with her she started to teach me about the gospel. She showed me movies about the life Christ when he was on the earth. She talked about the Book of Mormon, the content of it and how it was written. She taught me how the Church was restored and she showed me the DVDs about Joseph Smith and the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My cousin and I are the only two members of the Church in our family. Agnes Twagiramariya What did you like best about the Church when you were learning about it? The first thing that attracted me was the teachings and the different testimonies of church members I have heard. The other thing is the behavior of some church members; they behave like children of the Lord. Their practice and talk are different than others. They try to put into practice what the gospel teaches them. The other reason is the testimony of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon. I read it and I found that book is true because it explains the Bible and it contains the true teachings. How has your life changed since joining the Church? My life has changed completely since I joined the Church. For example, I sincerely feel the joy of the Holy Ghost who changed my life of sorrow and unhappiness into peace and joy. And I have started to smile and talk again. Because of His love, I found that all my sorrow my Savior took away and He has left me peace. I started to feel that I could forgive the people who killed my family in Genocide. It was very difficult for me to forgive them. And after forgiving them, I gained the total peace of my heart. For me, I choose to follow my Savior and I will never choose another way for my life. The gospel helped me to be strong in the face of life’s trials because the whole New Testament shows us how Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was born and grew and started to meet trials and challenges in his life. But he never sinned. This is the reason why I choose to follow his good example as my Savior. Agnes Twagiramariya Outside the Hotel Where She Works How was your family affected by the genocide? There is no way to explain that, but for me, it was very bad to see our neighbors killing my dad and mama with sisters and brothers. We were six kids and our parents at home where we were happy with our parents, but the genocide killed my parents and my two sisters and two brothers and my relatives (like my uncle on my father’s side and their children and the same on my mother’s side). I still live with my elder sister who has some problems because of genocide and a few relatives who also survived genocide. To lose my family, especially my parents, is a very bad thing in my life and it has caused some behaviors like being alone, to hate people, to be unhappy for some time with a broken heart. But today because of the gospel and praying, I made changes in my life and I can be happy for a long time. I’m peaceful with a forgiving heart. I am able to forgive those killers of my family, even if is very difficult to ask forgiveness for them. For me, forgiveness is a gift I’ve received after understanding the gospel. Agnes Twagiramariya What is your favorite thing about going to church? For me, my favorite thing is that the church is a nice family where you feel your brothers and your sisters as your own relatives. For me, because I lost my family in genocide, I feel in me that church members are my brothers and my sisters. The reason why I am happy when I’m with them is because of the love and kindness they’ve shown me since I joined the church. This interview has been adapted from a talk Agnes gave to her branch in Kigali. Agnes, 28, just graduated from university and is working full time as an accountant for a hotel. She looks forward to getting a master’s degree. Agnes lives in a house with two roommates that is the equivalent of two large walk-in closets (about 200 square feet, no kitchen, no bathroom). Several of these houses in a row share a latrine. She doesn’t live with her sister now. Her sister is with another relative in a village. Before the genocide Agnes’ sister couldn’t hear very well, as one ear didn’t work at all and she couldn’t talk properly. Due to what she saw during the genocide her challenges have increased because she isn’t able to express in words what she saw. At A Glance Name: Agnes Twagiramariya Location: Kigali, Rwanda Age: 28 Marital status: Single Occupation: Full time accountant for Okapi Hotel Interview by Sister Cheri Andrus.

Lorinda Belnap has lived in Manhattan for the past 20 years with her husband, Brent, and their six children in a three-bedroom apartment on the Upper East Side. In addition to mothering six children in a small space, Lorinda has been a mother figure to countless New Yorkers as the wife of the stake president there for ten years. When did you solidify your goal to have a large family? As long as I can remember I’ve wanted six kids. I’m the fifth of six, and when I was a little girl I said I was going to have six kids myself. Brent and I discussed it before we got married, he was in agreement, and once we started having a family I reserved the right to opt out at any time! You moved to New York right after getting married. Did you think you were going to stay here a long time? No, we didn’t think we’d stay here. Three to five years tops. I saw that most people in the city had very small families, and I remember telling my husband Brent, “I’m not going to let the city determine the size of our family. We’re going to do it!” And I think that was an important decision to make early on. Did you assume that you would eventually move out of the city? Yeah, absolutely. We noticed very early on that most couples seemed to move out of the city after having one or two children, or when their oldest child started school. We didn’t think that we would be any different. The New York City public and private school systems can seem quite daunting when you are on the outside looking in. Once you get immersed in it you just jump through the right hoops like everyone else. I recall Brent and I experienced opposing sine waves: when I was down on life in the city and ready to leave, he’d be loving life here, and then I’d have an up phase and he would be down. After we had been married about four and a half years, shortly before Brent was called to be stake president of the newly formed Manhattan Stake, we were going through the typical debate: should we move out or should we stay? I don’t know that it was necessarily a matter of prayer, but I remember waking up one morning and thinking, We’re fine. We can have a large family in New York City and we will be fine. Lorinda Belnap with Her Children Was it hard for you to come to terms with what you’d be giving up, or did you recognize how much the city had to offer? I’m not sure I ever thought of it in terms of giving up or gaining. I do remember, however, mourning that our kids wouldn’t have the same type of childhood that we had had, namely, the freedom to run and explore, ride bikes, have pets (I refuse to have a dog or cat in a NYC apartment, although many people do), have more independence to be kids and not have an omnipresent adult around. It was hard to come to terms with the limited space we had, especially as our children grew. At some point I thought, “If our Mormon ancestors could live in one bedroom homes with large families, I can do New York City!” It has given me perspective on all the stuff with which we fill our lives. It’s just not necessary! My siblings have beautiful homes and there was a time I really envied it, but once I helped my brother move out of one big home into another beautiful home, I no longer envied it! The stuff in our lives takes so much time. It’s just not necessary. I don’t want it anymore. I really don’t; in fact, accumulating stuff stresses me out. Living with eight people in a three bedroom apartment, how you manage the “stuff” issue? I never really feel on top of managing the “stuff”. I usually have a big urge in the spring to clean out, and then again around Christmas time before more “stuff” comes in. Clothes and toys that are in good condition we pass on to friends or the Goodwill. The past couple of years we’ve given our stuff for use at the tag sale at a street fair our Stake sponsors on East 87th Street. My life is overrun by papers. I used to save everything the children created—that ended pretty quickly. Now I save writing pieces that contain personal history. If they write about an experience they had during the summer, I’ll save it. If they write about the solar system, I don’t. I save a couple of representative art pieces for the year, the rest goes in the trash. Little Nathan has fished things out of the trash before—whoops! My ideal is that each child has a file each year with their name and grade listed on it and any work that is saved goes in that file. I’m working toward that ideal, but not there yet. Aside from the fact that you live in a smaller space than most families with six children, do you think your life is very different from other mothers of large families? It’s probably pretty similar: I wake up the older kids for Seminary. Seminary is just down the street at the East Side chapel so they walk. This year they all come home, have some breakfast, finish getting ready and leave for school around 8:00. David and Christopher take the subway up to the Bronx where they attend the Bronx High School of Science and Caroline walks a mile south to Eleanor Roosevelt High School. Spencer, who is now in middle school takes the bus or walks a mile south to Wagner Middle School. Depending on the weather Rebecca and I either bike or walk to her school on 78th and York; it’s about a mile. I participate in a preschool co-op with some other moms in our ward for my youngest, Nathan. We have a great time. After school, Rebecca, Nathan and I go to the playground if the weather’s the least bit agreeable. Rain is the only thing that keeps us away. We even stay in the snow. Come home, get dinner ready, kids do homework, just the typical stuff. Frequently, I feel like we’re living a very suburban life in New York City, except we don’t have a car! Lorinda Belnap with Her Youngest Son, Nathan One thing we haven’t done a lot of is extracurricular activities. They’re too expensive around here, plus it’s too much hassle for me to get them to their different classes. When they get old enough to get themselves places, then they start taking extra-curriculars, if they’re interested. One of the great things about living here is you can just send them off on their own! I don’t do any carpooling. What has been your gospel experience living in New York? It has been very, very good. The city has been very good to me. My testimony has grown tremendously. I’m beginning to understand the Atonement. It’s been very good for me to be away from Utah and away from family. It’s made me depend more on my husband. Being in contact with so many people who have such vastly different life experiences than mine has been enriching and has broadened my idea of the Gospel, of who it takes in, of what the Atonement is, of really every aspect of the Gospel. You can grow as member of the Church no matter where you live. For active LDS women everywhere, the gospel very much influences our lives and our decisions. Our goals are the same. Our minds are frequently focused on what’s going to bring us closer to God and on doing His will. It really doesn’t matter the circumstances in which we live, our hearts are in the same spot and we’re headed in the same direction spiritually. That sisterhood that I feel in Relief Society is very real, even though the women are constantly changing. That turnover is a situation that can be unique to urban wards. How have you dealt with that over the years? I’m one of the older women in the ward – at 46! But I still think the insights of the younger women who are just coming to the city are tremendous! I think, Wow, you are so spiritually mature! Everyone has unique life experiences and I love that they’re willing to give the city a try even though they may be here temporarily, which is the case with most of them. I feel a great spirit in Relief Society. There are also a couple of other moms my age in similar circumstances, and I gain incredible strength from them. And has that been enough for you socially? Because the Mormon group is constantly changing, I have a very good group of non-LDS friends who live in the neighborhood. They’ve always been very supportive. But I have to tell you, when we were moving to this apartment from our old apartment up the street I didn’t have any particularly close LDS friends at the time. I didn’t feel like I wanted to ask people to help us, but I was pregnant with Rebecca and I thought, I’ll ask my neighborhood friends. Well, not a single neighborhood friend came. But people from the Church found out and they were here in mass. And it made me think about how much service is just in our blood, we’re just taught it from the get-go. My non-LDS friends all had legitimate reasons they didn’t show up, but in our community we will drop everything to go help. We are our neighborhood friends’ introduction to Mormonism. Christopher’s Scout troop is made up of him and three of his community friends and that’s it. I love that our friends feel comfortable sending their boys to our church building every Friday night. They’re never going to become LDS, ever, which is fine, but those friends who come to the church building actually end up doing missionary work for us. There have been a few instances that have gotten back to me where someone will say, You’re sending your child to the Mormon church? And those boys and their parents stick up for us. Lorinda Belnap with Her Husband, Brent I’d love to know more about your role as the stake president’s wife in a time of tremendous growth and temple-building in the stake. Was that stressful for your family? For you personally? How did you define that role for yourself? I didn’t take on much of a visible role as the stake president’s wife. The only “role” I intentionally set for myself was to be kind to people and to get to know as many people as possible from the different wards when the occasion arose. Since we had a young family I felt my priority was to be with the children as much as possible while Brent was administering and ministering to the stake. Sundays were his longest days of the week. He left usually around 6:00 a.m. and on most Sundays didn’t get home until after 10:00 p.m. Brent served as Stake President for ten years during which time three of our six children were born. Absolutely there were times that were stressful, and admittedly times that I was resentful. However, it got easier managing the family, and precisely because of Brent’s service our family had some singular experiences that were very special. For example, we were able to meet President Hinckley on a few occasions. Prior to the dedication of the Manhattan Temple, the children were able to go inside several times to see the progress. They felt so comfortable inside the temple that once it was dedicated they were sad that they weren’t able to go back inside until they were 12! I see that as a definite plus. Let’s talk about you outside of motherhood as we wrap up. Is there something you enjoy personally? What are you going to spend time on yourself as your children get older? That’s a really good question! One I should give some thought to! I used to wish I were doing some big project, but I’ve realized it’s just not me. There was a time where I kind of, I don’t know if “resent” is the right word, but I didn’t really enjoy being a mom. And I was always thinking, I need time for me, I need time for me, I have no time for me. Eventually, I had this epiphany that the time will come. I chose to be a mom. I chose this, and having little personal time is just part of motherhood. And that feeling of resentment or whatever it was kind of left. I felt that was a tender mercy for me. I’m not one of these grand people who has grand ideas and who is involved in all sorts of other things. I love nature, I love being in the mountains, Central Park is my salvation here in the city. And so something I would do more of when the kids get older is just go out into nature more. I love serving people in need. I’ve thought of the years that lie ahead, several possibilities for me include going back to work as a physical therapist and working with the geriatric population, or getting more involved with abused/neglected children here in the city, or lastly, becoming more involved helping new moms adjust to being a mom, and being a mom in the city. I’ve realized that — and this sounds so trite! — that the greatest work I can do really is in the walls of my own home. I used to balk at that, I used to laugh at it. I feel like everything I used to laugh at has come true in my life and I’ve had to eat my words and been humbled by it! But truly, teaching the kids the Gospel, fostering a testimony of Jesus Christ is the greatest gift I can give them. It is only in Him and through Him that they are going to be able to work out any problems that come their way, that they’re going to be able to feel the peace that they need in life. It’s been a long time in coming and I’m really sad for our older children that I didn’t understand that when they were younger. But that is the greatest work I can do. I love being a mom, and I didn’t used to be able to say that! At A Glance Name: Lorinda Goff Belnap Location: New York, NY Age: 46 Marital status: Married since 1991 Children: six: 18 y.o. boy, 16 y.o. girl, 14 y.o. boy, 11 y.o. boy, 7 y.o. girl, 3 y.o. boy Occupation: Stay-at-home Mom, physical therapist in my life before motherhood Schools Attended: Weber State College, University of Utah Languages Spoken at Home: English Favorite Hymn: “Abide With Me” Interview by Neylan McBaine.

Susan Anneveldt knows that, even though she is the only member of her family to join the Church in this life, her passion for family history work has led her deceased extended family members to the gospel through temple work. As a single woman caring for aging parents and living far away from her local branch in the Netherlands, Susan combats the plague of loneliness with her understanding of the gospel’s worldwide community and the assurance of eternal families. How did you come to join the Church? I was born in South Africa to parents who had both been born and raised in Europe. My father is Dutch. My mother was born and raised in England to an English father and a South African mother. My father was raised a Catholic and my mother was raised a Protestant. She became a Catholic when she wanted to marry my father. In those days it was required. I was raised Catholic and I spent most of my school years with Irish Catholic nuns. From a very early age I had some very different ideas from the doctrine I was being taught while being raised. When our family left South Africa and arrived in Europe, my high school graduation was not recognized, mostly for political reasons. I went to England and spent a year doing a crash course in British university entrance level schooling, because it was easy for me to study in English, so that my schooling would be recognized in the Netherlands. Because I was not comfortable with the religion that I had been brought up with, I didn’t go to church. I just could not believe some of the things that I had been taught, and I knew there had to be something else. For a while I was actually an agnostic. I didn’t know what to believe. But then when I was in England finishing up my studies, for some reason I kept getting these feelings, “I need to find a church.” One evening I was lying in my bed at my friend’s house where I was staying and trying to pray, wanting to know what I needed to do with my life. I got a reassuring feeling, very unusual for me. I was praying without even knowing if I believed in a God anymore, but after that feeling I knew there must be a God. When I was back in the Netherlands, my mother met missionaries and gave them our address. When they came to our home, my mother came to my room and said, “There are people here you might like to meet.” It took quite a while before I did join the Church. I can still distinctly recall standing, putting a book onto the bookshelf in my room, and having this hammer blow between the eyes, like a voice saying, “You are going to be baptized. “ And it was like another voice said, “Oh no you’re not.” It was like a battle. I don’t mean literal voices, but just impressions. “No.” “Yes.” And in the end I said, “I do want to be baptized,” and that negative feeling entirely left me. So in a small way I can comprehend how Joseph Smith felt prior to the First Vision taking place, that inner conflict. Initially, even though I was old enough to make my own decisions–I was 22 years old– my father basically freaked out. I thought he was going to kick me out. I think he thought it was a cult. He didn’t really know much about the Church. And also his very, very devoutly Catholic mother was much opposed to any other religion, so he was afraid. We didn’t discuss what I planned to do with her but interestingly enough, after she died and I did the temple work for her, I know she did embrace the gospel. I know that for sure. Three weeks after I was baptized, I moved with my family to another part of the country. I attended a military unit of the Church that was English speaking. Various members kept saying to me, “I think you should go on a mission.” It bothered me a bit. It made me feel like I was under pressure. Ultimately, I had to see the branch president about a calling. When I went into his office, he said, to me, “So, Susan, are you here to turn in your mission papers?” I was speechless at first, just babbling nonsense. Finally I said, “No, no. I can be a very good member missionary. I don’t know why I should go on a full-time mission.” He said, “Well, think about it. Pray about it.” So I went home and I did think about and I did pray about it. And the answer I got was, “Susan, do you love the Lord?” My answer was, “Well, of course I do.” And again, “Susan, do you love the Lord?” “Yes.” “Well, then if you love the Lord, you will do what He wants you to do.” So I thought, “OK, I’m supposed to go on a mission.” It scared the heck out of me. I turned in my mission papers in late 1987. I was called to California Anaheim Mission and spent eighteen months in California. It was very rough at times, but I stuck with it. Yes, there were negative experiences. But ultimately all the positive things outweighed it. It’s one of the most important things I’ve done in my life. How did you come to be involved in family history work? Some years after my mission, as a non-traditional adult student, I earned my degree at BYU. I went to BYU with the intention of having family history as my major, but in the end I majored in historical linguistics and minored in family history. I have a deep testimony of redeeming the dead. I come from a large family. I don’t mean in my own immediate family. I’m one of three surviving children in the family. My mother had six babies before I was born but then she lost them. They were all born alive, but they were very premature, so they didn’t survive the hour. I have triplet brothers and three sisters in the spirit world who were born before me, but the point is, that I was one of three children, but the extended family in South Africa and the Netherlands and in England is big. I always was familiar with stories about the family and generations before and it just fascinated me. Growing up, I heard a lot about World War II—“during the war this..,” and “during the war that…” It had been a traumatic experience for both my mother’s and father’s sides of the family. In England, where my mother was born and raised, her father was a naval man. He fought in World War I, and in World War II he was called up again even before the declaration was made of Britain going to fight with the Germans, because they knew it was inevitable that war was going to break out. My mother didn’t see him for three years, until 1943 when he had to come home because his youngest son, my mother’s youngest brother, was killed indirectly because of the war at the age of six. My father’s family had a café restaurant across the road from the German barracks there in Arnhem in the Netherlands. Arnhem was much destroyed by the war and the Allies were constantly trying to bomb the barracks. Plus, my father had one sibling, an older brother who was a promising young artist in his early twenties, and he was taken away as a slave laborer. He never came home again. So I was very familiar with this idea of family members being missing. The gospel aspect of family history, unlike the hobby aspect, has been tremendously important to me. Through the gospel, I can do something for my family and give back to my ancestors. My family has been fascinated by all the stuff I dig up. They don’t know why I do it; they don’t comprehend it, but they’ve been pretty free about giving information. I wanted to do family history work professionally. I did get my chance after I graduated to work in the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, but unfortunately, my visa as a foreign student was only for a year of practical work after I’d graduated. So although I had a fixed job, my ability to stay in America was not fixed. So I had to go back to Europe, and I’ve been living in the Netherlands since then. But as my father had been diagnosed already with Alzheimer’s disease, I knew when I was going home that I’d end up, as a single woman, being the family member who had to help out at home. That was why I ended up being a caregiver—well, my mother was officially the main caregiver for my father, but I ended up doing a fair amount and became an official caregiver as well, and that has continued until last year, 2010, when my father had to go into a nursing home. It was just not possible to help him enough at home anymore. I am currently still at home. I’m hoping to have my own place again one day, but in the meantime my mother needs extra help now. Not so much in the psychological sense but more in the house being looked after and such. She’s also becoming a bit forgetful, which is age-related, I suppose. Sometimes when people get older they can be very difficult. That is just a condition of aging and you can have some down days. I’ve had some very down days, but I’ve managed to survive. So for now that is my mission in life, I guess, to keep things as smooth as possible in my own way for my immediate family. You have lived in five different countries and moved internationally both as a child and as an adult. How does your international experience inform your testimony of the gospel? I am very aware of the scripture, “He denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). We’re all part of the same gospel. I feel uncomfortable if I see people shut others out. The gospel embraces everybody. The LDS Church is international–it has many cultures, many languages, many ethnicities. When I see people of such vastly different origins embracing the gospel, I see how it is a gospel for the world. I have noticed that some people—not everyone, but some–feel that, if they have a pioneer pedigree—not necessarily American crossing-the-plains pioneers, but if they come from a long line of LDS members–that somehow they have an elevated status. We all ultimately have had the gospel since Adam and Eve even if it has not been manifest in our lives. Anyone who was baptized yesterday is just as valid as someone who has come from a long line. This is a value I brought into the Church with me from my family. Growing up in South Africa, our family was not pro-apartheid. My parents became South African citizens so they could become politically involved in making a difference. When we lived there, we had a nanny, Hannah, who kept house for us. She was Cape Coloured. “Coloured” was not meant as a derogatory term, even under apartheid, but indicated somebody of mixed race, Creole you could say. Anyway, Hannah’s daughter Verona would come with her if Hannah was working Saturdays or school holidays. When I was about twelve and Verona was nine, we went to one of these children’s play parks, which had swings and roundabouts and see-saws. We were playing there, not bothering anyone. But all of a sudden we saw this young girl walking toward us over this big stretch of grass towards the playing area. At the house where she had come from, there was a man washing his car. She came up to us and said in Afrikaans, “Hierdie park is net vir blankes,”meaning “This park is just for white people,” or in other words, “Get lost, you with the dark skin,“ meaning my friend. I remember getting so angry that I did something I would not normally do. I was not a violent person but I reached over in my indignation at the rudeness and I slapped this girl on the face. My friend Verona looked at me and she followed my lead because I was, you know, the big sister. She slapped the girl, wallop! The girl started crying and her dad saw what was going on. I bet he sent her over to us anyway. Big anger! Verona and I took off. We were running across this place that had never been turned into grass so it was covered with scrubby indigenous things with lots of thorns. We had wings on our feet because, even with just our little flip-flops on, our feet didn’t get stabbed by thorns. We made it home and this man didn’t catch us. My grandmother was very supportive of us, though she was Afrikaner herself. Sometimes you just have to defend someone, and I guess that’s how I feel, too, inside the Church. Anybody who is genuinely seeking the gospel needs to be accepted, and you don’t discriminate against them. So I share important gospel values with my family, but also since joining the Church I have gained many more values. For example, I’m not saying my family are liars and cheats, but if I’m in the supermarket with a family member and they decide to sample a grape to see if it’s sweet and I say, “You shouldn’t really be doing that without paying for it,” they feel like I’m being nitpicky. Those things they have trouble understanding. Sometimes I see a gap between my family and me because none of them have embraced the gospel. At least not on this side of the veil. On the other side, I know that the immediate family members who are all dead now have embraced the gospel. I’ve had that spiritual reassurance. What has been your recent experience as caregiver to your parents? It was a very hard year this past year. Stress, strain, health issues. Last year with my father having to go into the home, things just came to a head. What I’d been able to stuff inside to keep me going, it wasn’t enough. These things have made it difficult for me to be involved much in Church. I haven’t left the Church or anything like that, but it was hard sitting in the church physically because I have a lot of problems with my joints, and it’s a long way to get to church for me–a four-hour round trip to my nearest church unit. I’ve had very supportive home teachers who happen to be the branch president and his counselor. I’m hoping that when things settle down with the family and when my health improves I’ll be able to be totally involved in the Church. As I say, my body may not be in church every week, but the head is there. In a situation like mine, caring for aging parents, you have to get priorities sorted, you have to find what your strengths and weaknesses are, see what you’re able to do, and what you’re unable to do. You can draw on spiritual help, but you do need practical help as well. Sometimes people who are married and involved in families don’t know quite how to be supportive of single women, of anyone living outside the standard format of family structure. You can feel supported just by people understanding, even if they can’t physically do something for you. And those of us in this position find common ground with each other. In my international branch, there is another older single sister who is a full-time caregiver. Once every few months I will jump on public transportation and go down to a train station fairly near to where she lives. She will pick me up. She will have had to pay a carer a fair amount of money so that she can have an hour or two off and she and I will go for a walk through the Royal Park in Wassenaar and we can talk. I’ve also been helping her with family history the last few years. She hasn’t got time to do that. So I’m able to provide names for her so that when she goes to the temple, when she has time to do that, she has her own family names to do the work for, which is a blessing to her. What spiritual challenges do you face in your situation? I know it is important to try to build yourself up as strongly as possible spiritually. It’s not always possible because some of these distractions can be very, very hard, but that spiritual strength can keep you going when other things can’t anymore. Studying the scriptures has been harder in this last year for me because of those distractions. Sometimes I may only be able to concentrate for a half a chapter or a few verses. Sometimes it’s just opening at random. But it calms me down when I’ve had a difficult day. I gain a reassurance that I’m not on my own even when sometimes I think I am. Stress can sometimes make it hard to make that divine connection through prayer, so you have to work extra hard on it. The best way I can describe it is, if you had a very, very good friend who was very helpful who told you, “Anytime you are in need, please call me,” and then someone cut the telephone wires between you and him but said, “Go ahead and call anyway.” It becomes hard to feel that someone’s listening to you or even to get the feeling, “It has been heard.” What’s ahead for the next ten years? That is very hard because I’ve been learning to take each day as it comes, certainly this past year. There are some things that are not revealed to me. There are some things that are beyond my control. I know that it is inevitable that within the next decade, I will lose one or both of my parents because of their age. I would be on my own, for all intents and purposes. I would hope that I would not be physically on my own by the end of ten years. I would hope that some special man would decide that he wants to have me in his life as the one. Obviously biological motherhood is not going to happen. But I’ve not ever been an overly maternal sort of person, which has been a good thing because I have female friends who are single and who have heard the biological clock stop ticking and have been extremely distraught because they so crave motherhood. I know that motherhood is not just something in this life and that there are other ways of being a mother that are not biological: I have been an aunt and in that way have experienced a boy and girl growing up from babyhood to be teens. Now I have a niece about to be eighteen in a few days. She is on the brink of adulthood! But I would hope that I would not be on my own in ten years. If anything is my enemy in this life, it’s loneliness. I wrestle with that a lot. I’m very grateful for the gospel and the many friends I’ve made through it over the years. I have always been good at making friends, at having a wide circle of acquaintances. A family friend once commented to me, “You know, Susan, you can get someone’s life story out of them in five minutes.” I learn the most fascinating things from people I meet. But when we have the gospel in common, we have something eternal. At A Glance Name: Susan H.M. Anneveldt Location: The Netherlands Age: 50 Marital status: Never married Occupation: Linguist/Genealogist (currently part-time worker for social services) Convert?: 2nd July 1983 Schools Attended: Convent ®ular high schools, South Africa; BYU (Provo), USA Languages Spoken at Home: English, Afrikaans, Dutch Favorite Hymn: “If You Could Hie To Kolob” Interview by Annette Pimentel.

Julia Klebingat grew up in Riga, Latvia, which was then part of the Soviet Union. Introduced to the Church when Brigham Young University’s Legacy Dixieland Band performed in her hometown, she married at 19 and attended Ricks College. Julia recounts the culture shock she experienced getting married, joining the Church and moving to the United States in such a short time, and the blessings that have come into her life since that time. She is preparing to move from Frankfurt, Germany, to Kiev, Ukraine, to serve alongside her husband, who will preside in the Ukraine, Kiev mission. Some families in the Soviet Union retained peripheral spirituality amidst institutional atheism. Was your family religious at all growing up? No. No, not at all. It was a typical upbringing for that time in the Soviet Union. We were taught from day one that there was no God. Religion was just for old people, so it was something that was dying off. When did you start to think about God? It’s hard to say. There were questions that I asked myself throughout my growing-up years. But there weren’t any sources to look to, at least not where I was. Nobody was religious in my family. Nobody in my family, even now, is really at that point where they are interested in the gospel. It is still very much that old atheist mentality. Not my parents, not my grandparents. There were no answers. When did that start to change for you? I was thirteen in 1985 when Mikhail Gorbachev took office. At the time of glasnost and perestroika changes began to take place. Suddenly it was okay to look around and search. For awhile religion became something popular, or at least searching for the answers to spiritual questions was in vogue. There was a big influx of western churches; people flooded toward them. They were so hungry for something. But then it died down; many of the answers they found were not spiritually satisfying. Julia Klebingat with Her Family When I was a teenager, I also started looking for answers in other religions: in Buddhism, in eastern religions, in the Russian Orthodox Church. At one point I went to a nearby church and asked what it would take to be baptized. I thought that maybe something like that would be a cool thing to do. I would belong to some religion and that would be kind of nice. But they demanded an amount of money for the baptism that I did not have as a student. I thought it was an outrageous amount of money, so I never did get baptized. That ended my search for a while. I thought, “I don’t think it matters what religion you belong to; as long as there is something inside, some spiritual beginning.” How did you find out about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Brigham Young University’s Legacy Dixieland Band played one year at an international jazz festival, held every summer in my hometown Riga. My mother was one of the organizers of that event. Then, in 1990, the BYU Young Ambassadors came and toured the former Soviet Union. When they performed in Latvia, my mother was in charge of finding families for them to stay with in Riga. I also got involved in finding them host families. In return for our hospitality, they invited Russian and Latvian jazz musicians to tour the United States and also visit BYU and Ricks College. I was majoring in English at the University, so I went to the United States with them as an interpreter. Did that introduction to members of the Church encourage you to find out more about the gospel? When the music groups from BYU came to Latvia, I didn’t know what they believed or anything about their religion. When I visited BYU and Ricks it was a chance to see firsthand the Mormon people, who they were, and what kind of religion they practiced. We had only half a day at Ricks; we had one concert there. It was the first year that the Russian program had been introduced at Ricks. The Russian teacher said to his students, “There is a group of Russian speaking musicians coming to campus. Before the concert we’ll have a little get together and you’ll be able ask them a few questions for extra credit.” Jorg, my future husband, was in one of the Russian classes and in really bad need of extra credit. We met at that get together. Specifically through him I got to know more about the Church. He was the first member of the Church I had close contact with. He was the first one that talked to me about his religion. What do you remember him telling you about the Church? Did you have a lot of questions? I didn’t have any questions. At that time I was pretty much decided that it didn’t matter which religion you belonged to. I remember the first day he told me that his religion made him happy. I thought, “Fine, good for you. I’m happy, too.” At that point I was done searching. I had looked in different places and didn’t find any particularly good answers anywhere. He had an impression that even though I wasn’t a member and even though I wasn’t really religiously inclined that he needed (and wanted) to pursue our friendship. We left the next day for BYU and he followed us. When we went to New York City, he kind of forgot his studies for awhile and sold his car to buy a plane ticket. He flew to New York City to see me for a couple of days, and he proposed to me. We really only knew each other for about two weeks or so. That’s how it all started. In the course of time, he talked a little more about his faith. He always initiated those conversations. He told me more and more about what he believed and different aspects of the gospel. I don’t think back then it mattered so much to me personally. I just accepted it as part of who he was. My mother was on the tour with us because she was one of the organizers. I was impressed, and my mother was impressed, because he wasn’t smoking and drinking. That was a positive thing. After a few days in NYC, he had to go back and finish the semester, and I had to go back to Latvia. We talked on the phone and wrote to each other. Eventually he came to meet my family. We went to Germany to get married and then quickly went to the United States to start a new semester together at Ricks College. Right before the wedding in Germany, Jorg invited a couple of Elders to have some discussions with me. That first attempt wasn’t successful. Jorg said he believed his church was the only true religion on the face of the earth and that bothered me. I decided I would think up some really hard questions for the Elders so they couldn’t answer them. I didn’t have an open mind or good attitude at the time. What kind of questions did you think of that were really hard? I think I got them with the story of Nephi cutting off Laban’s head. They couldn’t answer too well. I told the missionaries, “It doesn’t make sense for you to come and talk with me. I don’t have any questions for you anymore.” They stopped coming after two discussions. Had you been reading the Book of Mormon? I hadn’t been reading on my own, not of my own free will so to speak. I read whatever was suggested for me to read. That wasn’t the time for me to listen to the missionaries because I wasn’t in an open frame of mind. Maybe I never would have become open to it. I think it was through the prayers and desires of other people that I became ready. My husband’s friends and everyone around us were very concerned about him marrying someone who wasn’t a member of the Church. I think there were a lot of prayers said on my behalf. Jorg invited another set of missionaries over when we got to Idaho, but this time they were Sister missionaries. I thought, ok, I’m just going to listen to this course of discussions to be polite and so I know what my husband believes in, and so I know about his religion. Before the discussions with the missionaries, Jorg told me quite a bit about his full-time mission in Colorado. He showed me pictures and told me the order of discussions. I knew the second discussion was frequently the time to make the baptismal invitation. So before the second discussion I thought, “Hmm. What if they asked me? What would I say? How would I say no?” My English was kind of shaky back then so I had to think of an answer–think it out in my head so I could say it fluently without stumbling over my own words. I prepared mentally. I knew exactly how I would say I didn’t think it was a good idea to be baptized. I don’t remember what my reasons were now. Julia Klebingat and Her Husband The Sisters started by reading the story of Christ’s baptism from the Bible. I had heard it before, I knew that story, but for some reason that time it moved me to tears. Suddenly I was sitting there crying! It was kind of embarrassing; I was planning to act quite differently. I had to leave the room and fix myself up because I was a complete mess. When I came back in, they asked, “Well, do you think you would like to follow the example of Christ and be baptized?” I opened my mouth to say what I had prepared and instead said, “Yes, of course I would.” It’s quite funny to think back. I definitely felt the spirit very strongly. The spirit took over at that discussion, but when the missionaries left, the spirit left, or at least that strong feeling of the spirit. I was kind of back to myself and thought, “What just happened? That wasn’t me!” Jorg was excited that I had agreed to be baptized. I said, “I was only crying because I felt sorry for myself! Everyone has been pushing me to join this church!” “Really?” he asked. “Yes, I’m not really planning on getting baptized.” And then he said, “Well, then you should go and tell the missionaries yourself.” “Fine. I’ll go tell them!” I said. I knew they were meeting at the cafeteria at a certain time so I marched there, determined to say I changed my mind. But when I got there I opened my mouth and asked, “Can we move my baptism date up?” That’s all I could say. After that I told myself there was no point in trying to resist baptism. It wasn’t working. I decided it meant something to me and just let go. It was a nice feeling because the spirit can work with you when you let go of your pride and insecurities. Every discussion was a nice experience. The missionaries answered many questions that I had. My husband baptized me two months after we were married. When you started going to church and living as a member of the Church, was it a difficult adjustment? Or did it feel natural? It was a difficult time in my life all together; there were three major changes in my life. I changed the country I was living in; it was a different culture. I was on my own, I left my family and friends, and I was only nineteen! I came from a big city of almost a million people and moved to Rexburg, Idaho, which is very small and rural. I had a new language; everything was different! On top of that I got married to a guy I didn’t know that well because we hadn’t spent a lot of time with each other. Then suddenly I embraced a new religion! It was a little bit crazy. It was a difficult adjustment. Can you think of any moments that were particularly difficult? It was just a bit of a culture shock, but it wasn’t because of religion. What was difficult for me was to get used to the initial friendliness that people show you, but frequently there’s nothing behind it. A lot of it is superficial. You realize after a while that’s just a cultural thing, that’s how they’re taught to act toward everyone. In Slavic culture if people are friendly, they really mean it. If they say, “We should get together sometime,” you can expect a phone call and an invitation. That cultural difference was a hard thing to understand at first. It took me awhile to grow into the American culture and the church culture, and Idaho and Utah have their own culture. Did you have any questions or doubts as a new member? What was helpful to you after you joined the Church? I can’t think of a time when I had really had doubts. After I was baptized, in my mind and in my heart I felt this was it. Once I made up my mind to join the Church, it was a steady slow process of my testimony growing. Something that really strengthened my testimony was when I began reading my scriptures regularly. You grow into things slowly. You hear things taught and you just don’t think it applies to you. As a young convert it took me a couple of years to realize that scriptures were important. I heard about them, and I read from them once in awhile during lessons, but never made it a personal study project. But once I began studying them regularly, I could tell what a difference it made. I felt like I came out onto a new level of spirituality through personal scripture study. Our travels have given us a chance to see how the Church functions and works in many different countries as we’ve attended wards and branches all over the world. The amazing thing to see is that the gospel is the same everywhere. Wherever you are, you walk into church and you have an instant family. Especially for us as we’ve moved many times, that has been such a crucial thing. We leave our friends behind, and go to a new place where we don’t know anybody, but then walk into a branch or a ward and right away people come up to us and make us feel welcome. It’s the same spirit and the same gospel that unifies us. Right away you have the same foundation that you are able to build on. It’s such an amazing thing. It’s been such a blessing. You raised your children speaking German, Russian and English. How did you come to that decision for your family? How did you do it? I minored in Family Science and took some psychology classes. That’s where I learned how to work it out when you have several languages in the family, what systems and what approaches there are to teaching different languages. It’s important to keep the languages separate either between parents, or different times, or something like that so the children can separate the languages from each other. We used to be quite strict about it, we had a system. Originally when we were living in the United States, I only spoke Russian with my children and Jorg only spoke German. English came from everywhere else. When we moved to Europe we decided we wanted our kids to keep up their English. So we added an English week to our routine. We had a German/Russian week as always, and then a week where we only spoke English. Now our children are fluent in all three. How has the gospel influenced you as a mother? It’s influenced everything! Every once-in-awhile I think, “What would I even be doing without the gospel?” The Church provides everything you need to know if you listen carefully. It offers so many programs, so many guidelines. There are so many ways to get help. So much is done by the Church through its programs and teachings to provide us with a well-rounded education about life and to prepare young people for life. I feel like the gospel from day one has become my life. I’ve measured everything against it and by it. My parenting and my relationship with my husband have been based on the principles that I have learned in the gospel. My husband married me when I was still a non-member, but he wouldn’t recommend that course of action to young people. He did it because he was acting under very strong promptings from the spirit. But that’s rare. Usually those are exceptions. As a rule you should stick to marrying someone of your faith. I think the emphasis should be on teaching the young people at home the value of temple marriage: what a blessing that is, what a necessity it is in the eternal perspective, how everything including your salvation hinges upon it. If you cannot go to the temple with your husband, it puts a damper on the eternal family thing. That’s been a key in our family; we’ve always emphasized the importance of temple marriage. So far none of our children are married yet. Katya, our 17-year-old, is slowly getting to that age. We’ve talked about it a number of times. Our two oldest children are the only members in their school. Our daughter is surrounded my non-member boys who want to date her. We talk openly about the values that she has, and discuss with her how important to her it is that eventually, the boy that she will feel serious about will have the same values and beliefs that she does. I think it boils down to teaching the gospel in the home. That’s the key, the opportunity for young people to feel the spirit. If it’s burning inside them, they are intrinsically motivated. You travel and move a lot because of your husband's job. This coming move to Kiev will be your nineteenth, has it been hard for your kids? I think they survived these many moves because of the strength of our family. It has always been one constant in their lives: the family is something they can always fall back on and draw comfort from. Of course, it hasn’t always been easy. With this move, our daughter is being yanked out of school in her senior year. It’s a difficult thing. I can understand that. I’m glad that she has a level of spirituality where we can talk to her about blessings and she understands what we mean: the blessings that serving a mission will bring, that being part of it will be a blessing to her in life. I believe she’ll look back and see blessings Heavenly Father is giving her. It’s important to have a strong family structure to prepare for whatever issues come up; it’s important that there’s love and ongoing communication. You're in the middle of a Master's program in Education with an emphasis in Social Work at the J.W.Goethe University in Frankfurt. What drew you to that profession? Has the gospel influenced your work? The gospel really influences every aspect of my life. For example, right now I’m doing an internship at a school as a social work and a counselor. Every time kids come and say they had a fight, right away I think in terms of the gospel, what’s the best way to solve a conflict? I draw on my extensive experience in Primary and in Young Women presidencies, where I’ve frequently dealt with youth with similar problems. In a class with lots of behavioral problems, where there is not a good atmosphere, I draw on my experience working with youth in the church and the projects we did that helped strengthen them. Young people are the future. If we have strong young people, we’ll live in a better world. They’re still at a time in their lives where one could help them turn many things around, really set them on a certain path and make a difference in their lives; whereas the older they get, the harder it is. You become so set in certain ways of thinking. When they’re young, everything’s open. That’s a crucial time. Right now in the school I’m working in there are so many tragic cases from broken families. The kids that especially need a social worker’s help are the youth that come from broken homes, experience abuse, neglect, injustice or mobbing. It’s painful to watch. If I can give them something positive when they’ve only experienced negativity everywhere else, that’s a satisfying experience. At A Glance Name: Julia Klebingat Location: Frankfurt, Germany Age: 38 Marital status: Married since 1991 to Jörg Klebingat Children: 3 (17, 15, 10) Occupation: Student, social worker/school counselor Schools Attended: Latvia State University, Ricks College, BYU,J.W.Goethe University-Frankfurt Languages Spoken at Home: German, English, Russian Favorite Hymn: “A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief” Interview by Marintha Miles.