When Pam Shorr decided to stop attending church, she doubted she would ever go back. She recalls thinking, “I really want to find who I am and what I believe. I just want to do my own thing for a while.” But eventually, Pam found herself prompted to return, and an inspired Relief Society president showed her the way. She describes her reactivation in the Church as difficult, terrifying, and inspiring. “When I returned,” she says, “I was ready for the whole thing, and I have never looked back.” Pam is interviewed here by her daughter, Krisanne. Can you tell me about your experience growing up in the Church? I grew up in Salem, Oregon, in a family that was partly active in the Church. My parents didn’t keep the Word of Wisdom, and I don’t think either of them liked to go to church but they felt like it was the right thing for their three children. They would go off and on together, but mostly off. Toward the middle years of my life my mom took us to church because my dad told her to, but she didn’t like to go. I didn’t really like going because the girls my age in the ward weren’t very nice to me. Many of the parents in the ward got together socially and my parents usually didn’t go to their parties. Inevitably, the kids of those parents were together a lot and they knew each other. They ignored me because my parents weren’t active in the ward or in the social scene. That was my impression. I went to church because I had to, but I never liked it. In high school, I realized I had a choice. I could just refuse to go, and there wasn’t much my parents could do about it. I just said, “Forget it. I’m not going.” During my senior year, a couple of girls moved into our ward, Jo and Janelle. They were ostracized by the other girls in the ward like I was. We banded together, and they became good friends of mine in high school. Jo was the Laurel president, and she always invited me to Young Women’s, and I also really liked the Laurel leader at the time. Her name was Ann Papworth. She made an effort to connect with me. She was fantastic. After Jo and Janelle moved in, I would go to church off and on, but I still didn’t like it much. Was there ever a point when you developed a testimony of the gospel? After I graduated from high school, Jo and I thought it would be kind of cool to go to Ricks College together. Ricks College [now BYU–Idaho] was where I really gained my testimony. It was a hard transition, though, because Idaho was very different from Oregon. I remember I brought my 8-track tapes–Emerson Lake & Palmer, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and Jethro Tull. I listened to Joni Mitchell a lot, too. My roommates thought my Dark Side of the Moon album was devil music. They listened to Barbara Streisand, John Denver, the Carpenters, Seals and Croft. Eventually, I did find some like-minded kids, and of course my friend Jo was along for the ride. During those college years, I felt really good about the Church. Jo and I took some time off from school and went back east to New York to spend a year as mother’s helpers. I lived with a Jewish family and nannied their kids. There was a large group of LDS kids in New York, and we had a lot of fun together. All of my friends were LDS kids, and that was good for me. There were also some investigators our age, so I had some missionary opportunities as well. When I got back from New York, I started dating your dad, and we were both really excited about the gospel. He told me how he had read the Book of Mormon in a weekend and had this profound manifestation that it was true.  We dated for about nine months and then got married in the Salt Lake Temple on December 1, 1977. We were married for about two and a half years. Our marriage was really hard even though we were both active members. In hindsight, it’s hard for every newly married person. It’s difficult to make that adjustment from attending a student ward to being married to attending a regular family ward. I didn’t have very good examples of healthy marriages growing up, either. I really struggled with it. I struggled with having to work and then being pregnant and then having a baby and trying to teach Primary and hold a baby in one hand. It got too hard. There were other problems too. Your dad and I decided to separate, but we remain friends to this day. You were a year old when I moved back home to Salem, Oregon. What happened with your involvement with the Church after your divorce? I attended church for a while. I went back to the ward in Salem that I had grown up in, which I wasn’t really happy about because of the painful memories I had there. I was going through a hard time. I was living alone with you and really tried to make it on my own. I got a part-time teaching job and then decided I wanted to get my master’s degree in Special Education. I had a calling in the Nursery, and I remember sitting in the Nursery and thinking about all of the things I didn’t like about the Church and that most of those things revolved around service. I liked reading the scriptures, I liked going to the meetings, but I didn’t like callings or visiting teaching or anything service. Service is what makes you grow, but I didn’t like it at the time because I was extremely busy. I was alone and raising a daughter and getting a master’s degree and working and trying to keep my finances going. Church service was just one more thing to worry about. Additionally, there wasn’t a lot of support for divorced women in the Church that I could see. Even my visiting teachers were nervous to come visit me. They didn’t know what to say to me. Through all of this, I remember thinking, “I really want to find who I am and what I believe. I just want to do my own thing for a while.” I moved up to Portland and decided that I wasn’t going to attend church once I got there. I wanted to see what it was like out in the world. Honestly, I think it was a good thing for me to get away for a little bit. On the one hand, it’s too bad that I didn’t stay active in the Church. On the other hand, I really needed to make a clean break so that I could figure things out. I doubted if I would ever go back because the majority of my time growing up in the Church was painful. I could count on one hand all of the really good years I had in the Church–mostly during my Ricks College and BYU years. You eventually remarried a man who was Jewish. How did that inform your Mormonism? When I moved up to Portland, I knew I wanted to remarry but I wasn’t going to marry a Mormon guy. However, I was very particular and knew that that if I did remarry, the person had to like kids, be a good man, come from a nice family, and be respectful. I met Jack at a teaching conference, and I thought he was a really nice guy. I noticed how fun he was with you and how gentle he was. He liked animals and kids, and I could tell that he came from a good family. I also really liked the fact that he was Jewish. I had always had Jewish friends growing up and was really curious about their faith and traditions. In high school, two of my closest friends were Jewish. When I was in college, I loved reading the Old Testament. I had some friends who went to Israel on semester abroad, and we would make Middle Eastern dinners together when they returned. When I nannied for the Jewish family in New York I would join in their Friday night Sabbath activities. Every time I thought about the religion, I got warm feelings. In fact, my grandfather’s best friend growing up in Brigham City [Utah] was Jewish–the only Jewish person in Brigham City. He owned the store where my grandfather worked. My dad was named after my grandpa’s Jewish friend, Ben Sherman. When I married Jack, I had been less-active in the Church for six years, and I had these feelings that maybe I would return to the Church. I thought that if I ever did return, I would have to be there for the right reasons, though. I knew Jack was a wonderful, supportive guy, and I said to him before we got married, “There is a small chance that I might go back to the Mormon Church. Are you okay with that?” He said, “If that makes you happy, I’m okay with that.” With that said, I never expected Jack to join the Church if I started going back. Even though Jack wasn’t active in his religion, I understood that his Jewish heritage was very important to him. I didn’t and still don’t believe that I should expect him to change that part of him. It would be like saying, “Who you are is not right or not good enough.” I didn’t think that was respectful. Likewise, he wasn’t expecting me to become Jewish, either. Did you return to the Church, then? After we got married, I felt very settled and my life was very happy. We moved to Beaverton, Oregon, and I got a great teaching job and you started first grade. When you were about nine years old, you said to me one day, “Mom, a lot of my friends go to church. Why don’t we go to church?” I was pregnant with your brother Matthew at the time, and I started getting these strong feelings about going back to church, too. My brother Eric was on his mission at this point. My mom and dad were inactive. I was inactive. You weren’t baptized. Eric told us that he had been praying and fasting for us constantly on his mission. It was his desire that we would all return to the gospel. I knew if I decided to go back to the Church, it was going to be hard. I was a little worried about Jack’s reaction. I had received his blessing right before we got married, but he really didn’t know a whole lot about Mormons because I had never been active during our courtship and early marriage, and he didn’t know what a commitment to Mormonism requires. Also, I didn’t know where the Mormon Church was in Beaverton. I looked up the address but I couldn’t figure out where it was located. I wasn’t even sure which ward I was in. I didn’t know any Mormons. I thought, “The only way to resolve this is to pray about it.” While I was saying the prayer, I thought to myself, “All right, this is it. No turning back now. This is going to happen because prayers are answered.” The next week I got a newsletter from the Beaverton 1st Ward. I thought, “A newsletter? Wow! That is a quick answer to a prayer!” The following week I got a phone call from the Relief Society president of our ward, Ann. She said, “I just had a feeling I needed to call you. You’re on the no-contact list, and if you really prefer no contact, please let me know.” I told her that I wanted to talk, so she came to my house, and I told her that I was having these strong feelings that I should go back to church. Ann said, “I just couldn’t get your name out of my head. Every time I looked at the names on the no-contact list, your name just glowed. I had to call you.” I said, “You were inspired. I would like to work my way back into the Church, but I’m terrified.” It took me about a year to get the courage to actually attend the ward. Once I went back, I was so excited. I loved conference. I remember calling my mom and dad and saying, “You guys will not believe this, but I’m going back to church.” And they said, “You’re not going to believe this, but we are too.” They bought me a new set of scriptures and the book, Jesus the Christ. There was just such a wonderful spirit in my life at this time. We eventually had the missionaries over to teach you the discussions because you were ten years old. You were ready to get baptized. You were such a sweet girl and were ready to go to church and be a part of the ward. It’s funny, when my brother Eric came home from his mission, I said, “Guess what, Eric? We’re all going to church now.” He wasn’t surprised. How has your life changed since returning to the Church? Returning to the Church has blessed our family. There is a peace in our home. I always have the neighborhood book group at our house, and the members of the group say that there is always such a neat spirit here. I think that it has blessed Jack and blessed our marriage. Maybe it’s blessed him to be patient with me. I’m learning things every day about that. The gospel has blessed my children and my ability to communicate with them. It’s definitely blessed me as a person. I always felt like I was “kicking against the pricks” when I was active before. When I was reactivated, I had to work through some of my issues. I had to get rid of my hard heart. It was difficult. My faith has grown during this process. Having faith is important, especially regarding service. If you’re extended a calling, you need the faith to say, “Yes, I can do that. It’s going to be really hard, but I can do that.” Or if you get a list of people to visit teach who are difficult you need the faith to say, “Yes, I can do this,” even if what you’re being asked is a little scary or uncomfortable. I learned that service is really the key to everything, and I like it now! I like every aspect of the Church. I like callings, visiting teaching, having visiting teachers–all of the things that I didn’t like before. When I returned, I was ready for the whole thing, and I have never looked back. It hasn’t all been easy. There have been some hard times, but I haven’t lost the faith. I always made the commitment that if things start to slide because of my crazy schedule of working full time as an elementary school teacher, and raising three kids, I will always attend my meetings and fulfill my callings. I know it’s best to go with a good attitude and a willingness to learn, but sometimes you just have to show up even if you’re not feeling like it. Sometimes I wonder where I would be if I had never left the Church. But then I remember that recent talk by Elder Holland where he tells us that where we are right now is enough. It’s enough. Where I am is a good thing. Most of the people I visit teach are inactive. I tell them, “If I can come back to church, you can come back. It’s possible. And it will bless your life when you’re ready.” I go by myself, and I have always encouraged them to call me if they need a ride or if they need someone to go with them. Even though I’ve attended church by myself pretty much my entire life, I have rarely felt alone. I feel like I am fulfilling an important calling. I am more aware of people who sit alone or people who are new or people who look unhappy, because I’ve been there, and I will sit next to them and introduce myself. I don’t go to church now and think, “Oh, I’m sitting alone,” because it’s not all about me. Now I think, “What can I do to help others?” I’ve just grown. It’s about time.

Tina knew from a young age that music was her life’s calling and she is a professional saxophonist in New York. It took longer for Tina to realize that she is gay, but a period of inactivity from the Church didn’t stop her from paying her tithing every month. It was appreciation and practice of Buddhism that led Tina back to the Church in her remarkable journey back into activity. When I was in third grade I had a babysitter, who was in the high school jazz band. Her band played at my elementary school.  I saw her stand up and play tenor saxophone and she was just killing it. She stood up and took a solo. I was like, that’s amazing! Then in fifth grade, I had a choice in public school to be in choir or in band.  I wanted to be in band. I wanted to play tenor saxophone. I really feel like saxophone picked me. It was that thing I just knew I had to do. There was just no question. I grew up in a very musical home although no one was trained. I got some really good negative pushback from my father which made me just want to prove to him even more that I would practice every day. So, I did. I practiced every day. Nobody told me to practice, but it was like a refuge for me. You know, all families are crazy and disruptive, no one is immune to that, and I just found it to be a sanctuary. I didn’t take private lessons, just what I got in school. But I would fall asleep dreaming of orchestrations in my head. I could hear music in my head. And I dreamt of me being in a Jazz combo, just five people. I didn’t know what that was. I just knew that I was on stage performing with a bass player, drummer, piano and a trumpet player. I decided then that that’s how I was going to spend the rest of my life. What was it like to get your first saxophone? Oh, it was magic! Man, I got this instrument, I didn’t know how it worked but I put the reed on and I just started playing the one with the record – like immediately. I didn’t know how to finger anything. It was my big passion. It’s all I wanted to do in high school.  I actually hated high school because I couldn’t do enough music. I was in music zero hour, 3 rd period, 6 th period and then after school.  So, it was four times a day and it wasn’t enough. I didn’t want to learn history, I didn’t want learn biology. I just wanted to know more about music. When I was a sophomore in High School I went to a competition for band and small ensembles held at the University of Idaho (Moscow, Idaho).  The saxophone professor at the University of Idaho approached me and asked if I was taking lessons and I said, “No, my parents can’t afford it.” And he said, “Well, look, if you drive over here (which was 200 miles away) I’ll give you saxophone lessons for free.”  I said, “Okay, you’ve got a deal.”  So, I took his telephone number, I went back home. I was 16 at the time. I said, “Dad, I need a car. This saxophone professor wants to give me lessons for free.” He said, “Well, there are 2 engines in the garage. See what you can do with them.” My dad was a mechanic. So, I had to rebuild my first car engine. With my dad’s help, we rebuilt the car engine so I could drive 200 miles one way to be at saxophone lesson at 8:30 on Saturday mornings. I did this every other Saturday for my junior and senior years of high school. Get up at 3:30AM to be in my car by 4:00AM and drive for 4 hours. Have my saxophone lesson at 8:30AM until 10:00AM. I’d make it home by 2:30PM or 3:00PM with just enough time to be at work at 4:00PM. University of Idaho gave me a scholarship and I went to college there in saxophone performance. Then I went to the University of Washington and got my graduate degree in saxophone performance as well. There’s never been a plan B because if you have a plan B that’s what you’re going to end up doing. So, I’ve always just decided that music is number one. And I’ve always had odd jobs here and there but I’ve always had students and I’ve always been able to perform.  I’ve been lucky enough to perform with lots of big bands and small bands alike, especially in Seattle. Where were you raised? In southern Washington, in the Columbia Gorge. When I was in high school, my family moved to Wenatchee, Washington. I lived in Seattle for my graduate work.  I was there for ten years before I moved to New York City. Music’s been the thing, man. It’s been the driving force.  It’s been the safe haven in my life.  The constant.  The router. Were you raised in the Church? My mother was a convert to the church at age 18. My father wasn’t a member but we went to church every Sunday. And she taught us to pray, follow the commandments and she taught us to follow the Lord. When I was 9, my father finally converted.  When I was 11, we went to the temple which was really neat and we were all sealed together.  So, I grew up being very active in church and I loved it. I love the gospel. I knew it was true.  I’m a true believing Mormon. I’ve always had a strong testimony of my Savior and have just loved having a relationship with the Lord. Let’s switch gears for a minute and talk to you about being queer. Well, when I was 11 or so my Uncle Michael, my dad’s brother, came to my parents and said, “I have found the person of my dreams. We are going to have a commitment ceremony. His name is Tom. I love him very much.” And my parents said, “No, we can’t come to your commitment ceremony because we can’t support you in that. We love you no matter what you do but we can’t support your life style.” Later, my mom expressed that homosexuality was just bad and evil and against God, a very grievous sin – only second that to killing someone, I remember her saying.  Then, when I was 12, I was taught in Mia Maids to pray, to stay on your knees to feel the Spirit and that’s how you receive answers to prayers. So, that night I went home and prayed. I didn’t have anything special I was praying for. I just stayed on my knees to feel the Spirit and the awareness welled up within side of me that I was homosexual. I was so afraid and so shocked, dismayed. It was the worst thing that could happen and I was just like, no! no! no! no! no! no!  I shoved it into the deeps recesses of my body and there it stayed hidden until I was in college. A few people tried to bring it up with me in college, but I just couldn’t handle it. So, other people were seeing this? Oh, yeah. A lot of my classmates saw it. I just kept a lid on it as tight as I could.  I had no interest in dating boys. I was just a baby bull-dyke. I really was. I wore these giant combat boots. I had a leather jacket. I had camouflage pants and always wore men’s T-shirts. No, I was just full on a small dyke. I just couldn’t see it. I couldn’t see it at all. I just couldn’t or wouldn’t see it. I went on one double date when I was 16. I was like, “Oh, I’m 16. I can go on a date now.” So, I went on a double date. It was just lame. I even ended up making out with the other girl’s date who put the moves on me and I was like, “Oh, sure, this is just something that people do.”  The kiss…it was gross, disgusting, yuck. I didn’t like it at all. I wasn’t intrigued. I didn’t have any romantic interest in any boy ever. To this day I haven’t had romantic interest with any boy.  I’m almost 40. I’m a lesbian. Yeah, it’s true. It was in college that I really began to realize that I was falling in love with women. And the first woman that I fell in love with really, she was Catholic and she wouldn’t have it. I went and saw my bishop at home and said, “I think I’m gay.” And he said, “No, it’s not possible. In order for you to be gay one of your parents has to by gay. Obviously neither of your parents is gay because they had you and God would never do that to anyone. He wouldn’t create someone homosexual. No, not possible.”  So, I was even more confused. I went back to college and fell in love with another girl. Then began the crazy wicked battle back and forth: gay or straight, active in the church or not active in the church. So, I did the pray the gay away thing. I worked so hard. I went to the temple. I thought that would make me straight. I thought I could just have enough faith that the Lord would just take it away and that I could will myself into being what everyone else told me I needed to be. I just put myself through the ringer to the point I made myself sick. I had done everything I could think of to do. I convinced myself that I was going to marry a guy. I fasted. I prayed. I went to the temple. I received my endowment. Did everything I could think to do, and at a certain point I just realized that I was unhappy and broken from the struggle to make myself straight. As hard as I tried my homosexuality just wasn’t going to go away. I realized that at a New Year’s Eve dance at a Mormon church. It was just so pathetic. I was looking out at the dance floor at the guy that I had convinced myself that I was going to marry.  And he was dancing with someone else and I realized he had zero interested in me. And I thought to myself, “What am I doing here?” So, I prayed in that very moment and said, “Take this away from me.” The next day I went to my friends’ house where all of my lesbian friends from college were gathered. I knew they would all be hung over so I took over some eggs and potatoes to make everyone breakfast. That was the day I met the woman I would marry and spend the next seven years of my life.  We held a beautiful commitment ceremony two years after we started dating. It was an incredible seven years with her, even though I missed the church, the community, the spiritual nourishment. But eventually, I could no longer live in Seattle and be happy.  The jazz scene of New York City was calling my soul.  So we moved to NYC and she lasted 4 months till she was completely depressed and distressed. We both realized that she had no place in New York City and needed to return to Seattle.  I could no longer live in Seattle.  We had a long distance relationship for one year which completely unraveled in that time.  We tried to keep it together, but we needed such different things.  She needed to have children in Seattle and I needed to make music in New York, so we set each other free.  This was about five and a half years ago. That relationship must have been a great loss. How did you handle that? At the time, I was living with a Buddhist here in New York and he had this incredible library of Buddhist books. He practiced zazen or meditation every day; he taught me how to practice zazen too. We talked a lot about Zen and Buddhist precepts. I began to read these books and the Zen Buddhist approached really helped me embrace the suffering. My mom was also really sick with cancer at that time too. So, I started to redevelop my spiritual side through Zen Buddhism and through music. So, I just sunk deeper into music and my spirituality which was really powerful and wonderful. Buddhism is actually what brought me back to the church. How so? I was reading a book by Thích Nh?t H?nh, who is one of my favorites Zen Buddhist authors, called Living Buddha, Living Christ. In the book, he talks about the jewels of our traditions and how important it is to accept our own tradition. He says, “When we respect our blood ancestors and spiritual ancestors, we feel rooted. If we can find ways to cherish and develop our spiritual heritage we will avoid the kind of alienation that is destroying society and we will become whole again. We must encourage others, especially young people, to go back to their traditions and rediscover the jewels that are there. Learning to touch deeply the jewels of our own tradition will allow us to understand and appreciate the values of other traditions and this will benefit everyone.” And when I read this I was so struck knowing that I had to go back to my tradition, to my Mormon tradition. I was like, oh, crap! Really?  This information sat inside of me for about six months before I had the courage to go back to church, to be whole again, but I knew I had to do it. So, what were some of the first steps you took? I was always a tithing payer because as a musician you always need support. I’ve always had a firm foundation, a total testimony of tithing. I’ve paid my tithing since I declared myself a professional musician in 2003. You paid your tithing the entire time you weren’t going to church? To whatever ward you technically would have been in? Yeah, and I always had my files transferred to whatever ward I was supposed to be in. I would write the bishop a letter and say, “Hey look, I’m in your ward. You have my records. Do not contact me. Do not send the Relief Society after me. Do not send the missionaries after me but here’s my tithing.” And I’d tell the bishop I was gay and in a relationship. So, you actually meet with the Bishop and say, “Look I’m queer, I’m in your ward.  You’re going to get tithing but that’s all you are going to get from me”? Yeah, exactly. When I first got to New York, I had a bishop who tried to tell me I’d be happier if I was a wife and mother and I said, “You are not listening to my words. I am queer. I’m homo. I’m as homo as they get.” But then a couple of years later a new bishop was called. I just knew that cause the name on the tithing envelopes changed. I stopped by the church on Sundays and slipped my tithing envelopes under the bishop’s door. You go to the church house, fill out the slip and put it under the bishop’s door… I didn’t fill out the slips there. I would go in, grab some envelopes and some slips, slide my tithing under the door and get out of there as quickly as possible. Just like, in and out, boom. But, this particular Sunday I slipped it under the door and the bishop, the new bishop, pops his head out and is like, “You! Who are you? What are you doing? Where do you come from?” He was just so earnest, so curious. He wanted to talk: “I’m just really curious. Nobody pays their tithing who doesn’t come to church.” He was so befuddled and he was just so earnest. So, I make an appointment to meet with him and it also happens to be tithing settlement time. It turns out that this bishop is a saxophone player himself! So, we talked about music. We talked about me growing up in the church and being homosexual. And he said, “Well, look the door is open to you any time. Feel free to come to church and you can bring your girlfriend too.” Yeah, I was so shocked. I was like, What??? You just said I could bring my girlfriend to church? Did they change the Bishop’s Handbook? What’s going on? What happened?  It’s been 9 years since I’ve attended church and this guy is inviting me to bring my girlfriend to church. I knew at that point it was time to go back to church. I was going to honor my tradition. I went back to church. The very first Sunday back was fast and testimony, the very first Sunday of the new year (2011). I got up and bore my testimony to my congregation. I said I hadn’t attended the church for nine years but I’ve always known it was true. I just bore testimony that I know that Jesus is the Christ and that this is the restored gospel. I didn’t announce that I was homosexual. I think it was pretty obvious though. You know, I showed up with a tie and a button down shirt and nice slacks on. I bore my testimony and everyone was so kind and loving and I was like, okay this is cool. And I just began to work with my Bishop. I continued to practice zazen and I continued to read Buddhist books. I continued to practice mediation and mindful living but I slowly incorporated reading the scriptures, starting with the New Testament because I felt like I needed to get to know my Savior more. I began to pray more to Heavenly Father as opposed to just mediating or chanting. It only took about five or six months before the Lord showed me that I could totally incorporate my zazen and scripture reading. I still chant. I think it’s something really important that our culture doesn’t teach but it is a very strong tool and I chant what people would praise in church like: “Praise God,” “Thank you, Jesus,” “Thank you, Father in Heaven.” Just chant like that because it is very powerful. So, I still keep that in my personal practice. What benefits does chanting give you? It just opens up my chakras. It opens up all of my channels to feel the Spirit. It gives me groundedness and rootedness in a way that I’m able to feel the Spirit…in Buddhism they talk about “the mirror”. There is a mirror in our minds that reflects life and sometimes the mirror gets really dirty and we need to clean the mirror to see clearly. To be spirit-led, you have to constantly clean that mirror. This is a significant shift, from Buddhism to Christianity. What has that been like for you? Well my return to the Church came at the same time I was ending a relationship. My new freedom allowed me so much space to feel the Spirit, which is the awesome filler of everything, right? It just gave me more mental space, more spiritual space to be calm. It felt so good and the Lord just filled me with his spirit all the time. I was so happy. There were definitely hard, hard days. But I didn’t try and solve it. I didn’t try and fix it. I said – great, I’m just going to love whatever is going through me right now because that’s what the Lord would do and that’s what I’ve been practicing the past several years living my life. Buddhism isn’t a religion, it’s a philosophy. It’s a practice of life. I just put all of my Buddhist practice to work by going back to church. So, during this time that you are getting to know yourself what did you learn? What did you discover? Who’s Tina? I discovered that I really love more than anything to wake up alone and pray first thing. I don’t want to talk to anybody. I learned that I need a lot of alone time. I learned that I’ll put myself way on the back burner for the happiness of someone else and that can be really extreme for me. I don’t take care of myself. It just shows how horrible I am in relationships.  I really don’t need to be in a relationship to be happy is what I discovered and that actually I prefer to be single. That’s what I learned. It’s a happy coincidence that my preferring to be single lines up really with what the Church expects of me as homosexual, and perhaps a more faithful way of saying that is that God blesses me to feel this way. That’s what I think. The Great Creator can make us into whatever he wants of us. If we move ourselves in slightest right direction he will take it and he’ll magnify it for our good. I feel like I’ve been blessed to be at such peace about this. I have this incredible relationship with the Lord and with the Spirit. I’m just so peaceful. Peaceful! Joyful! I will take the gifts of the Spirit over the gifts of the flesh any day of the week.  I’m all about it. What do you think got you to that point? The Lord, I really do, without question. And also my desire to feel the Spirit got me to this point. My desire to know the truth.  My desire to align myself with the Lord’s will. My desire to not be afraid and say – hey, I’m a homosexual. I’m the big bad word. I was created this way.  It’s not an affliction. I was created this way. And I was given the ability not to be afraid of that any more. I reached out to my Stake President and told him I’m a homosexual and if he needs any help or advice on how to help other homosexuals I’m a resource. I’ve spoken to the Relief Society in my ward to share my mother’s faithful experience of how she came to accept me as a homosexual, my faith journey as a homosexual in the gospel, and how much that hurt and how much I had to get over to come back to church. If someone has a question, let’s talk about it and to use the word homosexual . I’ve also joined Affirmation which is the gay and lesbian bisexual transgender organization that’s not affiliated through the Church, but it is member organized and run.  So, now I’m deeply involved the outreach and membership of that work. What have been the challenges for you in this work? I think the biggest challenge is when people question why I’m celibate and they act as if it’s a just phase. Or that I’m hiding behind the Church in a way that makes me less authentic. Or when my gay friends are like, “What are you doing hanging with the Mormons?” So, that’s hard. That’s actually lessening up now. I think the hardest part is when my gay friends question my happiness. When they can’t believe that I’m happy and joyful. Even though they meet me and see that I’m a happy person, they can’t believe that God would ever support a person being happy in being celibate. Everyone just assumes that you can’t be happy unless you are in a relationship and that maybe that is true for some people, I just feel better not being in a relationship. What have been the blessings as you returned to the Church? My mind is more sharp and more clear about what I want to do. It is evident to me that in the past two years God has been directing and guiding my footsteps. I’m blessed with a peace. When I read the scriptures, I’m given revelation on what the Lord wants me to do. I am given the courage and the confidence and the strength to live my life. The Lord has also changed me physically and mentally to be able to do this. I can go to the temple now. I can go to the temple and do the work for my ancestors, which is just such an amazing blessing and get help from the other side. I have full access to all the mysteries of the kingdom of God. If that isn’t a blessing, there isn’t one. I have the reassurance given through the Holy Ghost. I live an abundant life. The blessing of knowing that at any moment I have access to divine energy is just awesome.  I know who I am now. I know who I am. I’ll tell you what – one of the biggest blessings is saying, “I’m a homosexual and I’m a daughter of God. The Lord loves me and there’s a work to be done, brother and sisters. There’s a mighty, mighty work to be done and it’s called building up Zion.” To be able to build up Zion like this and strengthen other people who have had such pain caused from being homosexual is joy and fulfillment in my life. Sometimes it’s very stressful and I get bombarded with emails or things I need to do but it’s such a blessing to know what to do with my life. To have meaning in my life. To know where to put my time and my energy and to be directed in every step is the best blessing that anybody could ever want. Is there anything else that you would want the women reading your story to know? If we try to live up to some ridiculous idea of perfection we totally miss grace, we completely miss grace. Grace is something we need to embrace; the Lord knows us, and He doesn’t want us to be like everyone else. He didn’t make us to be like everyone else. We’re all individuals and he needs us to do his work to build up Zion to strengthen and edify each other. We are all part of the same body but if the body is walking around with the knee thinking it’s supposed to be the nose or the head thinking it’s supposed to be the shoulder… You can’t do your job if you think you are supposed to be something else. Just find out who you are in the Lord and make your space in the Church. I do want to close with saying that I know that the church is true and I know that Jesus Christ is the son of God. And that the restoration of the gospel is the truth and if we seek the truth it will be made known. If we ask, we’ll have the answers. All the answers are available. Even though they aren’t always clear we will get the answer. I say these things in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Are you hosting a discussion or book club about Women at Church? If so, feel free to use these questions to stimulate discussion. Also, add your own questions or responses in the comments section here for others to learn from and use. Which experiences related in the book resonated most strongly with you and why? Was the author successful in her attempt to create greater compassion and understanding for women who struggle with issues in the church? Did you feel moved or changed by what you read and how? Does she address the full range of issues that are making women uncomfortable, or did you think of others as you read? Which changes suggested seem most important to you? Do you think they are possible on a local level? Which changes suggested don’t seem possible or necessary to you and why? Did reading this book make you feel more powerful or less so as a woman in the church? Why? Do you think the author’s establishment of the Church Handbook of Instructions as a standard for orthodoxy is fair, or should she have engaged with other sources such as conference talks and published leadership trainings, etc.? The author does not deal with the issue of women’s ordination to the priesthood. Is this a strength or a weakness of the book and why? The book gauges small changes in women’s visibility and participation as big progress for women in the church. Do you agree with this assessment and why? The author states that Mormon doctrine claims “one of the most progressive gender doctrines among any Western religion” (xvii). Is this true, and in what ways is Mormon doctrine progressive or not with respect to women? What effect would it have on the church as an organization if we did and heard more teaching about women as role models and heroes in the scriptures, the Relief Society and Gospel Doctrine manuals, etc.? The author suggests that LDS members would be better served if they stopped claiming gender equality in the practices of our church in the same way that other institutions claim it (52). Do you agree with her that we should disregard this term, or is it helpful for us to continue to claim that women are “equal” to men in the church? In what ways do women in the church “roadblock” other women (107-117)? What can we do, as sisters, to ensure we are not hindering the progress of other women in our church on local and also church-wide levels? A good deal of controversy has arisen over the author’s assertion that “visual representation matters deeply” (126-130). While the book asserts the deep importance of women’s visibility in leadership positions of the church to both women and men, some critics have dubbed woman’s desire for visibility beyond the status quo to be unholy ambition and worldly vanity. How do we reconcile Jesus’ teachings that we not seek for the glory of the world while nevertheless recognizing the contributions of women in more significant ways? How can we ensure that our sons and daughters learn proper respect for female religious leadership as well as male? Beyond just our church leaders, how can we as parents change how we teach these notions of gender in the home? How can we do a better job on a local level of recognizing and honoring women’s skills and abilities beyond motherhood and marriage to build a more inclusive ward family? What did you think about the author’s assessment of women’s current participation in ward council and PEC? How can our women leaders better represent the women in their stewardship in these meetings? The author’s sources include books written on business, communications, and advertising, among others. In what ways are these useful and appropriate books for the management of gender relationships in the church, and in what ways may such sources fall short? What other sources might be useful as we ask for the greater participation and visibility of women in the church? When our ideas or suggestions for change are not heard or valued by our church leaders, how can we become more adept at “assessing our spiritual lives separately from our Church experiences” (169)? How do we find the strength to persevere in a less-than-perfect church, surrounded by and governed by less-than-perfect people? How can we support others who are struggling to persevere despite their pain and their doubt?

I’m the Primary chorister in my ward. My 9 year old daughter had said to me “Mom, there aren’t a lot of girls in the scriptures are there?” I wanted her and other kids to be more aware of the wonderful women who are in there. The scriptures about Anna the prophetess lend themselves really easily to a verse ((they’re from Luke 2:36-38), so I used those scriptures as the source for a new verse in the popular Primary song, “Follow the Prophet." When we first started practicing the new verse about Anna the Prophetess, it was neat to see how a couple of the older girls who were usually somewhat sullen and withdrawn became engaged and participated. As the months went on, I was surprised to have all different types of personalities request to sing the Anna verse. It just became a normal part of the six verses of Follow the Prophet and other songs we were preparing for the program. Our Primary chose "Follow the Prophet" as one of our optional songs this year and we sang the Anna verse in our Primary Program, but the song is slated to be one of the required Sacrament Meeting Program songs for 2015. Anna was a prophetess, in the days of Christ. Serving in the temple, she would pray and fast. Though she was quite old she served there night and day, telling all she met the joy of Jesus’ way.

When we were in our early thirties, my husband was called onto the high council of a university stake.  We were asked to speak once a month together in the various wards of the stake.  We were also asked to have our 4 children participate through songs and talks.  The stake president said, “We want the women of our stake to be taught by the experience of the women and well as the men who are their leaders.”  At stake conferences, the women married to the members of the stake presidency always spoke, along with their husbands. Those men had the vision of how much more would be learned by the congregation if their wives also shared their own stories and testimonies. It was powerful. I still remember, 25 years later, many things that were taught at that pulpit by those women and those men. We had a rich experience as a family, and were greatly blessed by those times, along with the students. My husband was called as bishop sometime after that, over one of those wards. He continued, upon the advice of the stake president to invite me to speak at each ward conference, and asked me to teach Relief Society occasionally. The students in our stewardship did thrive on the involvement of our family, with our five children, in that ward. We were just ahead of them on the journey of building a family in this mortality, and they often expressed their gratitude and enthusiasm for examples and ideas for their own futures. Our family was equally blessed in return by their examples and love. We were not perfect, but that served to make the experience all the more real and easily shared. I will always be grateful for that wise stake presidency, and the loving God who revealed these principles of leadership to them.  They set a high standard for couples and families in that married student stake. They made both the man and the woman of equal importance, strengthened marriage and family, and allowed us to share the burden and joy of the work of building the kingdom, in both small and important ways together. The wards and stakes operated on principles of love and inclusion; and the love was keenly felt. It was a vibrant, joyful time for me and my family. I am so grateful for the restored gospel of Jesus Christ in these latter days; and the continuing revelatory blessings made possible by that restoration.

When I became bishop of my ward about three years ago, one of the thoughts that stuck in my mind was a quote of President Hinckley’s: “If the women of this Church will be united and speak with one voice, their strength will be incalculable.” (I can’t recall exactly where this came from, but I wrote it in my journal way back in 2004, so I think it must have come from one of those worldwide leadership training meetings.  It may have come from General Conference though, I can’t remember exactly where). Also, about that same time, I had conversations with our ward’s Relief Society president about how to unify and solidify our Women. Since speaking with one voice = incalculable strength, the question was “How do we get the women of our ward to speak with One Voice?” One way to make that happen was to get as many of them in the same place at the same time, as often as possible, especially the leaders. So we instituted two things: 1) full presidency Personal Priesthood Interviews (PPIs) once per quarter; and 2) Womens’ Council. 1)      Whenever I conduct (February, May, August, November), we hold PPIs with the entire Bishopric AND the Entire Presidencies and Boards.  Thus, 4 x per year, we get a chance to see the entire Primary, Young Women and Relief Society Presidencies, along with their counselors, advisors and board members. a.       All of the ladies serving in these Presidencies and boards are invited to join the PPI, and as part of that PPI, we request their counsel, guidance, thoughts, opinions, and ask them if they need/want Priesthood blessings; b.      We operate on the Principal Of Three (3) so we typically ask the Presidency what the 3 biggest challenges/concerns are and how we as a Bishopric can help; c.       We ask what we can do to resolve the 3 major issues facing each auxiliary; d.      We elicit thoughts on 3 individuals who need assistance or guidance; e.      We report on items and individuals discussed at previous meetings; f.        We give estimates as to when we may have responses on items/individuals discusses; g.       From the Bishopric’s standpoint, these PPIs have been largely successful at building trust between our Bishopric and each Presidency, and allow us a window into how well each Presidency is functioning. 2)      Each Second Sunday, we hold Women’s Council, again with the entire Primary, Young Women, Relief Society Presidency and Board invited to attend.  We substituted Womens’ Council for one PEC each month. a.      At this meeting, our goal is to make sure that each of the Womens’ Auxiliaries are on the same page in terms of ALL calendar items and activities, and that there’s a synchronization between the Relief Society and the Young Women in particular, and that the Relief Society is assisting with Primary staffing shortfalls where necessary (e.g. last month we needed bodies in Primary to substitute and that was coordinated in Womens’ Council meeting very smoothly). b.      From the Bishopric’s standpoint, this Council allows our Women to schedule and coordinate their functions and activities in a way that frankly, takes a ton of pressure off the Bishopric.  It’s amazing how a simple coordination council meeting solves problems and resolves issues before they become issues.  It’s really quite remarkable.  There are so many visits that get made and service that is given as a result of this meeting that it’s really difficult to quantify all that they do to move the Work forward, but it happens.

As a young mother, still in my twenties, I was called as Family History Leader in my ward.  In this capacity, I organized the other family history consultants (all men but one) to put together family history activities and home visits.  I worked closely with the High Priest Group Leader, and was surprised when he invited me to join monthly in their High Priest Group leadership meetings.  They reserved the first part of every meeting to discuss family history initiatives in our ward with me, to listen to my report and hear my ideas, and inevitably to offer their support (and they always followed through).  I was amazed at the respect and support I received from these brothers.  I was no expert on family history when called, but they and the other consultants recognized my authority in my calling, and helped me believe in it myself.

Within a few Sundays of receiving his call, the new Elders’ Quorum president in our ward asked if he could speak to the sisters during the regular Relief Society time on Sunday. He wanted the entire lesson time. We, as attending sisters, had no idea what was on his agenda. I’m assuming the Relief Society president knew what was planned. He, along with his counselors, joined us after their Priesthood opening exercises. The Elders’ Quorum president thanked us for allowing him there and then asked us to advise him on how the Elders’ Quorum could better serve the sisters in the ward. He wanted to know what our concerns were, and what they could do better to serve and support us as women, as sisters in the gospel, as mothers and as wives. He had his counselors write everything down so as to be shared and reviewed regularly (and anonymously). As soon as trust was established in that meeting, I remember the sisters shared their thoughts freely and openly. Surprisingly, it didn’t turn into a gripe session with the airing of petty grievances, but it stayed within the spirit the Elders’ Quorum president established. I think if there are gender issues prevalent in a ward, perhaps based on traditions and practices of the past, this is an admirable way to bridge the gap and form a new level of cooperation and understanding. Fortunately, the Elders’ Quorum president was nothing but sincere in his efforts to do just that.

Our two oldest children have both served missions, and my husband and I both noticed that all communication that comes from church headquarters or the mission president in regard to their mission activity is addressed directly to my husband. They happen to be my step-children, so I assumed it had something to do with that aspect of our family dynamic. Recently my husband was called as Ward Clerk, and was asked to send a letter on behalf of the bishop to all of the members of our ward. When he sat down to print the address labels from the ward/church record keeping software, he realized that it would only print out the “head of household”– the husband’s name– along with the home address. He mentioned to me that he tried to figure out a way to also add the wife’s name, but the software would not allow him to make any changes– he deduced that it was an issue that would need to be fixed at church headquarters. Instead of mailing out the letters with the labels as such, the Relief Society presidency volunteered to hand address each envelope. Bless them. We realized then that the issue with our correspondence regarding our missionaries has nothing to do with my legal relationship to our two oldest children, but instead comes from an oversight that can be easily fixed in the software, I hope. I am currently researching who to contact in Salt Lake City make aware of this oversight and solve the problem.

When “Daughters in My Kingdom” came out, my husband looked through it and said, “You know, I’d really like to teach this in the Elders’ Quorum.” He’s not currently called as an Elders’ Quorum teacher so he asked the Elders’ Quorum president for special permission to teach it as the 1st Sunday lesson each month for a year. The Elders’ Quorum president liked the idea, went to the bishop, who also liked the idea, and so since January 2012, my husband has been teaching the Elders’ Quorum the history of the Relief Society using “Daughters in My Kingdom” as the source text. Maybe next year, our Relief Society will take the cue and do it as well…

When I taught the Laurels, the Young Women president told me when I was initially called that the bishop’s top priority for our girls was for them to understand the importance of attending college and developing their minds before marriage, rather than looking at marriage as the end-all, be-all for young women in the church. Our YW lessons emphasized the divine role of young women and the potential we have to contribute to the world as thinkers, doers, creators–and yes, mothers!!–but our focus was on individual growth, development, and expansion which would then allow us to be good wives and mothers as part of a well-rounded life, rather than focusing solely on attaining wifehood or motherhood.

Budget Negotiations by Kathleen Hughes, Former General Relief Society Presidency From LDS Living Magazine, December 16, 2013 I particularly recall an occasion when the Bishop announced in Sacrament meeting that the young men in the ward would be given the opportunity to raise money for their activities by placing flags in the front yards of homes within the ward boundaries. All members and neighbors were invited to give a particular amount of money to the young men and in return, on special national holidays, the flags would be placed in their yards. I had recently been released from serving in Young Women and I well knew how little money there was available for their activities. I was upset. And during the week, as I thought about the announcement, I became more upset. Finally, my husband said, “Kathy, go talk to the Bishop. He’ll listen to you.” So, I called his office at work and made an appointment to visit with him. I laid out my concerns and my rationale for why the planned money-raising activity for the Young Men seemed unfair. He listened, asked some questions, but made no commitments. I could do nothing more. I wondered if my meeting had done any good, and when I heard nothing from him, I began to think that the original decision would stand. But, a week later the Bishop sat down next to me before Sacrament meeting and said, “Kathy, I just want you to know that we are going to involve the young women in the project. And you were not the only woman who came to see me. I heard from several!” Courageously, but courteously advocating for those we are called to serve had made a difference. I have consistently found that to be true.