One year ago, quarantine lockdowns were announced in the United States due to the COVID-19 global pandemic. Jennie Leininger’s job as a medical-surgical nurse in Washington changed but the spiritual connection of serving our sisters and brothers with health challenges remained the same. How did the pandemic change your job as a nurse? Jennie Leininger The general concept has remained the same, but the logistics changed overnight. My hospital received our first confirmed positive case on March 6, 2020. It’s interesting to think back on how we continually evolved during that process. I was out of work for almost three weeks with COVID-19 myself in the very beginning, and I got texts daily from co-workers to make sure I was recovering and to say, “Work is so different! Be aware of this when you get back.” Tents were erected outside the building to triage patients, and respiratory patients were separated from everyone else. Nurses were trained in skills they wouldn’t normally do, like drawing blood, respiratory treatments, or other tests. Normally, techs and respiratory therapists would do these things, but they wanted to limit who was coming in and out of dedicated quarantine units. Staff within that unit, once changed into hospital scrubs and PPE [Personal Protective Equipment], could not leave for the shift. Food was brought in. Policies changed several times daily as new information came. Mask. Don’t mask. Wear this PPE when that happens. Don’t wear this type of PPE, wear that. PPE can be worn between patient rooms when both patients were confirmed positive. Also, in the beginning, it took a long time to get results back. So there was a “rule out” unit, with patients waiting for results, where PPE was not worn between patient rooms because a potential positive patient could spread the virus to a confirmed negative patient. Once a positive result came back, they were transferred to the “positive unit” where single PPE was worn all shift, but hands were washed as usual and gloves changed between patient encounters. We have always worn PPE for different reasons. So the issue wasn’t how to use it properly to avoid contaminating ourselves and others. It was, “What are the characteristics of this virus? How is it spread? What combination of pieces should be worn to avoid transmission?” Throughout the rest of the hospital, other types of infections no longer required certain PPE, so that more was available for the COVID unit. Cloth masks were temporarily allowed so that supply could be stretched further. Once we had enough supply, staff wasn’t allowed to wear masks other than the disposable type, provided by the hospital. Classes and trainings were canceled. We had to figure out how to have meetings online, just like everybody else. Nonessential procedures were canceled, outpatient clinics closed, and all staff was deployed to the “labor pool” – extra helping hands to deliver food, take donations, divide donations between neighboring hospitals, be in the units to hand things into rooms – all in an effort to conserve PPE. We had what we had. and we didn’t know when more would be available, so we had to safely stretch the supply. We were all worried. We didn’t know what would happen from one day to the next, or how things would change more, or how we would have to adapt. A year prior, nurses were accused by a Washington state senator of not needing rest breaks because they just sit around and play cards all day. For the first time in my ten years as a nurse, I felt valued and supported by my community. Restaurants kept us fed. Churches had prayer and worship services in the parking lot. We were applauded at shift change. I was called a hero and compared to Rosie the Riveter. It was different, but I felt, “This is what I have always done. It’s nice to finally be recognized for the hard work I do, instead of the Hollywood portrayal of nursing, but this is what I do. I’m not a hero. I’m doing my job, my calling. Nothing special.” How has your nursing remained the same? Nurses have always been masters at adapting. New evidence-based practice comes out all the time as new studies are released. There are very few things I learned in nursing school that are the same now. We have a plan, but we have to be able to change gears in a heartbeat with a poker face. We guide patients and families through difficult things and we need to be the calm in the storm. We have to be the strong one in the room. That didn’t change. Our dedication to patient-centered care and our ability to be creative didn’t change. Our dedication to nursing and caregiving didn’t change. When people have tested positive, most stay home in quarantine and wait it out with a variety of symptoms. What is the level of illness to be admitted to a hospital? Any virus runs its course. Recovery efforts are geared toward symptomatic treatment, to ease the symptoms or support areas in the body that aren’t handling it well. Hospital admission happens when you aren’t getting any better at home and continue to decline, requiring more aggressive treatment. The emergency symptoms of COVID are difficulty breathing, sudden confusion, change of coloring, or chest pain. Any or all of these should warrant a trip to the emergency room under normal circumstances. There are many things that could cause these symptoms. We just now have a new, highly-contagious virus that these symptoms could also point to. Because it is new, people are dying because it takes time to learn about it, and how to prevent and intervene. You will be admitted from the emergency room to the hospital if you need extra oxygen while your body heals, or if you need certain types of nebulizers stronger than inhalers that you’d use at home. You will be hospitalized if you need IV fluids – some older people are quite dehydrated because they’ve lost their appetite due to being sick. Certain medications can only be given through an IV so needing any of those will require admission. There is an experimental medication, Remdesivir. It’s not approved by the FDA [Food & Drug Administration] yet – it helps with extra symptoms and can shorten the duration of the virus. You qualify for it if you have a lack of oxygen. There are also parameters around using convalescent plasma, from somebody who already had the virus and developed antibodies. These antibodies can give a boost to your immune system to help fight the virus. What do you do as a nurse with a COVID patient that is different from other patients? At this point, the main difference is strict isolation in a dedicated quarantine unit because it is transmitted so easily. In good health, your body maintains a state of normal – a normal level of chemicals, fluids, and electrolytes maintain all of your systems working together. Your body has backup systems for when this balance is thrown off and there are backup systems for those backup systems. The technical term for this is homeostasis. Disease happens when homeostasis is thrown off, whether by an invading bacteria or virus, a failure of one of the systems, chemicals being off balance, etc. So the treatment of any disease or chronic condition is going to the source and restoring the state of normal. COVID-19 is a respiratory illness, and treatment is focused on the bottom line – returning your lungs to a normal state while preventing other organs from being affected. Because the lungs and heart are so closely related, any prolonged problem with the lungs can lead to your heart beating abnormally which can be dangerous. So treatment can be respiratory and cardiac medications. Sometimes a person won’t respond to steroids, plasma, or Remdesivir, and require advanced methods of oxygen delivery or even continuous medications going through an IV to regulate the heart. This level could put somebody in the PCU [Progressive Care Unit] where they are too sick for the general floor, but not sick enough for the ICU [Intensive Care Unit], or continue to get sicker and sicker, eventually requiring the ICU and a ventilator. We have found that being in a prone position – lying front down – helps oxygenation levels. Just having a patient change positions can mean the difference between increasing levels of breathing support. There are heavy organs on top of your lungs – your heart and ribcage – and your lungs are working super-hard to breathe from the virus. Those extra heavy organs make it even more difficult. So if you’re on your side or your belly, you no longer have that resistance and the air can flow better. We also have lung exercises that can be done to strengthen the lungs. On the general medical floor, I can teach patients to prone and do these exercises. They can control it themselves to get stronger, in combination with other treatments they may be receiving, and be able to go home. This gives power back to the patient. So many things are unknown and out of their control – these are things they can control to aid in recovery. Hospitalization doesn’t mean all these patients on ventilators. That’s just for extreme cases? To qualify for a ventilator, you’re the sickest of the sick. You are just so low on oxygen and we’ve tried everything else. We’ve tried many, many, many, many liters of oxygen supplementation, through different delivery methods. A ventilator is the last option to support oxygenation and is basically a machine that breathes for you. I saw the stats of our hospital in an email – how many COVID cases we’ve treated from the beginning. About a quarter had been in the ICU. Of that portion in the ICU, there was even a smaller portion who were on a ventilator. So just because you’re in the ICU doesn’t mean you will be on a ventilator. I’ve been in the ICU just to help a handful of times and seen intubations done. Basically, they use medication to sedate and paralyze you while putting a tube down your throat into your lungs, to then connect to the ventilator machine. It’s not pretty. The reason for the medications is to help the patient be more comfortable, and to prevent them from grabbing the equipment in a panic if they were to wake up. So imagine waking up – you’re on your belly in prone position, you’ve got pillows all over to provide padding, you have a tube down your throat and can’t talk, you have a tube in your bladder so we know what your kidneys are putting out … It’s not a pleasant experience and the ventilator comes with its own risks. You’re definitely not saying, “Oh yeah, I was just on a vent for a few days, and now I’m good!” – it’s a huge deal to be on a vent. What’s the balance between “it’s just a cold” and “lock yourself in your house or you’re going to die”? I have to laugh a little when people ask if it’s like a cold. I’ve come to the conclusion that people who ask if it’s a cold are those who think it’s not real or even a hoax, and want some rationalization. Finally I said, “If you’ve ever known anybody who had to be in the ICU and ventilated for having a cold, it’s exactly like that.” I don’t know if I’ve changed anyone’s fundamental belief on the reality or danger of COVID but it makes me feel better after people not taking it seriously for an entire year. On the other hand, the media gives the worst possible story and makes it sound like this is how it is all the time. Yes, the cases they share are real, but it’s not a true representation of every case, every time. I’ve seen a lot of people on each side of the extreme. Where I live, people gathered in huge groups at a park with no masks to protest. I got online with one of them and said, “Why?” She basically said, “I have to put my faith over my fear,” so precautions weren’t necessary. So when you click your seatbelt, is that fear over faith? When you lock your doors at night, when you tell your kids to wear a bike helmet, or put your baby in a carseat – is that fear over faith? She ended the conversation without answering. I wasn’t trying to badger her. I seriously wanted to know. I don’t understand the difference. If someone understands this differently, please tell me! The balance is – we need to live our life, but we also need to take precautions and do our part. There is a level of protection from keeping your covenants, but God also expects you to use your common sense. President Uchtdorf said something along the lines of: God is much more willing to help the guy who is pushing his handcart with all of his might, than the one sitting off to the side offering a prayer, no matter how eloquent. We need to do our part as much as we can. We’re in a partnership with God. We can’t pray, “Make it go away,” and it miraculously disappears without any effort from us. So what’s our part? At the beginning, I didn’t promote masks because too many people use the mask incorrectly and have a false sense of protection. People need to be taught how to use it, just like we see signs about correct handwashing all over. Why aren’t there campaigns to correct use of a mask? The correct way to wear a mask is using a clean technique. Wash or sanitize your hands, and pick up the mask by the loops – you don’t touch the mask portion – put it on your face. Adjust the loops and nose wire for a good fit, covering your mouth and nose. Sanitize your hands again, and after that, you do not touch the mask. Don’t take it off until you’re done, because it’s contaminated. If you do end up touching it, sanitize your hands again immediately. When you remove it, take it off by the loops, seal it in a plastic bag, and it’s ready for the washing machine. Don’t take it off, wad it up in a ball, and put it on again, because you’re contaminating your face with the very thing you just tried to protect yourself from, if it’s on the mask surface. What are your thoughts about social distancing for holidays and family events? I have such mixed feelings. I understand the need to get with your hundred-member family. I understand the need to have all of your friends over in college for Thanksgiving. However, some believe that the only patients to end up in the hospital are those with comorbidities. “I don’t have heart disease, I don’t have diabetes, so I’m going to be fine. I can get my friends together.” I have seen patients in their 20s to in their 90s. Some have the biggest health history in the world. Some have zero medical history. There’s just no telling which person is going to end up in the ICU with all of the interventions, or who is going to need a couple of days of oxygen and can go home, or who won’t need to go to the hospital at all. It’s been such a political topic but it shouldn’t have anything to do with politics. I understand the need to gather. People react so differently to the virus so it could be spread from a person with no symptoms to another who may not be so lucky. I have mixed feelings but have to promote staying apart. There really isn’t any excuse, especially with the technology we have today…I mean, you and I are on opposite sides of the country and we’re talking face to face. Get creative, yes. Will it be different, yes. Will it be hard, yes. Is it possible, yes. I think about the Spanish Flu pandemic a hundred years ago – you see pictures of people wearing masks and they quarantined. I haven’t done a lot of reading about what their life was like, but they made sacrifices and they did not have the technology we have today. It’s hard for everybody. Everybody is doing the best we can with what we have, and we all have different ways of coping with stress. A person saying, “They can’t tell me what to wear,” maybe they just don’t want one more thing that’s a loss of control for them. We’re kind of seeing the worst of everyone right now, because we all have different coping mechanisms. I take extreme reactions with a grain of salt. I’m sure I have extreme reactions over things. What has the nursing profession taught you about resilience and how to handle challenging situations? While details are important, the big picture is the most important. Plans and expectations change, so make sure you are heading where you want to go. When things go downhill, know and use your resources. Know your way out. If you don’t know your way out, grab a buddy and walk through it together. Be honest. Allow yourself to feel whatever you’re feeling, and find a reason to laugh. Sometimes I sense a patient doesn’t want to know what I’m thinking in a tough situation, so I have a poker face because they need a brave person in the room. Other times, I have a rapport and I’m able to say, “This is what I’m seeing, what worries me, and what I don’t want to happen. This is what we’re going to do. Fair?” It’s okay to be vulnerable like that. I had a patient once who said, “This hurts so much, I just want to die!” I looked him in the eye and said with a straight face, “Please don’t do that because then I’d have to start CPR, and that would be an awkward situation when your wife comes in.” He just started laughing. That little burst of energy and comic relief was enough to get him through. It’s that way in life. Do whatever you have to do to make it, trust that there’s a solution, and make things work with whatever you have. How does your faith and spirituality connect with being a nurse? The Healer by Nathan Greene There is a piece of art that depicts a nurse caring for a patient, and Jesus Christ is standing by her side. It is a beautiful, beautiful piece of art – I saw it in an Institute class and I ran up to the teacher. “Where is that? I need it!” I have a friend whose mom was a nurse, and she has passed on – my friend said, “my mom would be right there with you if she was here.” I’m sure she already is, because there are angel nurses who walk the halls. At the beginning – when we knew some things, but less than we know now – we went into rooms in the COVID units only when it was absolutely necessary because of possible exposure for ourselves. There was a COVID patient with Down Syndrome. She was screaming, crying, calling out, and we couldn’t do anything about it. We had her on a camera to make sure she was safe, and I remember she was suddenly calm. I looked at the camera and she was looking around, smiling and reaching out. I have no doubt there was an angel nurse in that room. I had a patient just the other day – she and her husband were roomed together because they were both sick. The husband passed away and she is going through the ugliest grief. I had the thought go in and sit on her bed with her. So I did, and I just talked to her. Tell me about your husband – how did you meet, how did he propose. They met when they were 14 years old at a roller-skating rink. She had an abusive father. She grew up with terrible self-esteem. This man taught her what she was worth and stood up to her father, and really took good care of her. I held her hand and frankly, I didn’t really care about my personal exposure at that point. I had all my PPE. I just held her hand, and I noticed her hair was sticking all over her face. I combed her hair, I made her some hot chocolate. She told me we’re going on a road trip so I said, “Great, what are the snacks?” I spent a good hour and a half with her, just being there with her and talking. She needed a human connection. She did not need medication to calm her down. She was feeling real human emotion for a real situation in a really difficult time. I felt that connection with her and it was really special, and I’m sure her husband was there. The spiritual connection is serving our fellowman – giving of everything we can to help another. The most effective nursing isn’t giving medication, it’s not dressing a wound. It’s connecting with people, spirit to spirit. I am there for somebody on the worst days of their life, sometimes when nobody else can be. It’s the whole aspect of service – when we’re in the service of others, we’re in the service of our God. I was born to be a nurse – it is my passion and my calling. I’ve wanted to be a nurse since I was wee, wee little. Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely impossible days when I question my life choices. Sometimes a really bad day can erase 100 good days. On those days, I lean on my team. Most of the time I know right where I’m supposed to be. Pushing myself through school was the best thing I could have done for myself because I love what I do. I can give someone who is suffering a glimmer of hope, and that makes the difficult times worth it. At A Glance Name: Jennie Leininger Age: 34 Location: Vancouver, Washington Marital History: I have been married to Will just over a year Children: 2 kitties that are completely spoiled rotten Occupation: Registered Nurse Convert to the Church: Born in church Schools Attended: Bachelor of Science in Nursing Languages Spoken At Home: English and sarcasm Favorite Hymn: Be Still My Soul Interview Produced by Trina Caudle

Kathleen Parker McArthur and her husband moved to West Virginia in 1977 after they graduated from BYU, and never left. They now have eight children, thirty-one grandchildren, two grandchildren on their way to earth, and one great-grandchild. Today she hopes to share her testimony with her posterity. Let me tell you why I’m doing this – this is for my grandkids. I’m 71. Who knows how much longer I’m going to live. So, I’m hoping to get something recorded that my grandkids can look at and say, “Oh yeah, that was my grandma.” That’s what this is all about. Tell me about yourself. Here’s the quick version of me: I was born and raised in Ogden, Utah. I went to Brigham Young University, back when it wasn’t so hard to get into. My future husband, Larry, was in the military and snuck into a dance at BYU – he borrowed his brother-in-law’s student ID card. We were dancing together and I asked what he was majoring in. He said, “I’m not majoring in anything.” “Really? How are you here?” He said, “I’m in the Army, I snuck in.” It was Saturday, February 11, 1969. We spent a few hours together Sunday afternoon and again on Monday evening. On Sunday, Larry introduced me to his sister, brother-in-law, and two cute kids. Monday, he invited me to dinner and a movie, Camelot. Early Tuesday morning, he left Provo for his new duty assignment in Colorado Springs. During the summer 1969, Larry drove from Colorado Springs to Ogden, Utah, to take me out on a date. Of course, he couldn’t take me out every weekend, because he drove all night to Provo, and then up to Ogden. We would have one date and then he’d drive back to Provo and Colorado Springs. In September 1969, Larry received orders to go to Vietnam. He served for 13 months on a tiny firebase, then discharged to San Diego. Kathy and Larry McArthur with Child Larry transferred to BYU in January 1971. We got married in December in the Manti Temple. We graduated from BYU on the same day. I was heavy with our second child and so happy to be walking across the stage to pick up my diploma. Larry wanted to get his Ph.D. and was offered a position at West Virginia University. Our plan was to go back to Utah as soon as he got that degree. But our Northern West Virginia district presidency had been fasting and praying for priesthood holders to move into West Virginia. There were all these little tiny branches, and they needed leadership to grow these branches into wards. When we fasted and prayed about where to get a job, the answer was Elkins, West Virginia. We obeyed the promptings of the Spirit and moved to Elkins. We never left, except to travel, and serve a mission from 2013 to 2015. We’ve just stayed here. My husband was the bishop here 38 years ago when we were young and having babies, and he had a brand new job at Davis & Elkins College. We lived in an old house that needed work. It was a hard time for us. About a year ago, we decided to move to Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. We talked to a banker, and I looked at houses online. When we got back to Elkins, I knelt down and said, “God, we’ve decided to sell out and move to Coeur d’Alene. We have two sons, ten grandchildren, a sister-in-law, and a niece all there. We want to be closer to family.” I heard one word, and the word was, “Stay.” Stay?! Let’s go through the numbers—again!!! I have ten grandkids out there! The answer was, “Stay.” We obeyed and we stayed. Within three months, all three families had left Coeur d’Alene, and moved to Hawaii, Utah, and St. Croix. Everyone was gone. I sat back and thought, “Ya know, God, you really do know what you’re doing! I need to apologize for my attitude.” In December 2020, Larry was called to be the bishop—again. We knew this really is where God wants us to be. How many children do you have? We have eight children, thirty-one grandchildren, two grandchildren on their way to earth, and one great-grandchild. It’s tricky having that many grandkids for sure, but we’re happy to have them. Before Larry was called to be the Bishop of our ward, we would drive a large loop around the country to visit the majority of our children. For example, we would drive up in front of our son’s home, and we would sit in the car for a few minutes. And we’d go, “How do we pronounce all of their names?” Then we would say, “What are their family’s rules?” The rules change from house to house, so we refresh all rules in our minds before we go in. Your husband has been bishop twice, but women are just as involved in building the Kingdom as men. What have you done to support these tiny branches and wards? Kathy and Larry McArthur Our ward is small, so the number of active people decides how many hats you wear. I’ve taught a lot. It seems like I was in Primary for a long time. I also had stake responsibilities – I was a counselor in the stake Relief Society presidency and later in the stake Young Women presidency. I was called to be a Relief Society president a couple of times. Right now, I’m in Young Women and that’s probably my favorite calling. President Nelson has spoken a lot about personal revelation and “Hear Him.” How would you teach that to the Young Women group, and to your family? How do you hear the Lord? If I had my posterity in front of me, or my Young Women, I would say to them: revelation comes very differently to different people at different times. Sometimes it knocks your socks off. Other times, it’s subtle. I’m going to give you an example of both of those. Kathy McArthur with Mike Doig In December 2020, I was at the store picking up supplies for making Christmas wreaths in Young Women. While I was there, I had a feeling to go over to Goodwill and look at picture frames. “Spirit, I’m pretty short on time here.” “No, no, you need to go over and look at frames.” So I went and saw one that was silver and shiny. I thought, “This is a fun frame,” but I didn’t buy it. A few days later, I thought about it again, and said, “If it’s still there, I will buy it.” It was still there, I bought it. My husband said, “What are you going to do with that?” “I don’t know. The Spirit said to buy it, so I bought it. I just obeyed.” About two weeks later, a dear friend gave us a piece of art – it’s a print of an oil painting by Michael Doig. The painting is a picture of trees and powdery snow, with a young boy wrapped in a wool coat and hat. I knew I needed to frame Mike’s painting immediately. I went upstairs and grabbed the silver frame. The painting fit perfectly in the silver frame and even the matte was the right color and right size. I paid six dollars for the frame. If I’d gone to a frame store, it would’ve been very expensive. Some people say, “It’s just luck.” No, it’s paying your tithing and the Holy Ghost knowing you’re going to get this painting and you’re going to want to frame it right away. It felt really natural. I didn’t hear a voice, just had an impression to buy a used silver frame, and it worked.Sometimes I obey the impression. Sometimes I don’t, and then find out later I should have obeyed. Here’s a story when I didn’t obey: There was a time when an older lady lived across the street. One day, I was getting my four little children in the car to run errands, and I had a feeling to go see if she needed something from the store. I had all these little kids and I was afraid to leave them in the car alone, I already had them buckled in. I talked myself out of going to her home. About a week later, I went across the street to visit her. She said, “Oh Kathy, I needed you so badly the other day. I was running out of medicine and needed someone to go to the pharmacy. I could see you loading your kids in the car, but I was too weak to walk to the door and holler at you.” I blew it. Sometimes the Holy Ghost gives us promptings, but we talk ourselves out of it. We come up with excuses like I did. I felt terrible. Now, I will tell you a story that changed my life. In 1993, our 12-year-old son Jon started having seizures. We were in California attending a grandmother’s funeral. We took Jon to a hospital and the doctors ran a bunch of tests. They prescribed medication and we were told to quickly drive back to West Virginia and see a pediatric neurologist. At that time, there was only one pediatric neurologist in the entire state of West Virginia. We took our son to him when we got home. That doctor added a second medication and increased the dose. So now my son was drugged with so much medication that he couldn’t walk across the floor and could hardly talk. McArthur Family 1994 We did some research and realized there were much better drugs with fewer side effects. We made another appointment with the doctor and said, “We want you to take him off these drugs and try one of the new drugs.” He was very arrogant and said “No.” He’d prescribed these drugs for twenty years and they work. I said, “They don’t work. My son is still having fifteen seizures a day, even when he’s drugged. They’re not working, so change it.” He wouldn’t change the prescription; his plan was to increase the dose. I said, “I’m through doing business with you,” and left with my son. I thought about it for a few days. We knew there was a children’s hospital in Pittsburgh, and another one in Richmond, Virginia. I knelt down and prayed, “Lord, should we go to Pittsburgh or Richmond?” These office visits were $250 for each neurology doctor’s appointment. I knew I couldn’t doctor-shop, I had to get it right on the first try. I was praying, wanting this answer worse than I wanted air. I said, “God, where shall we go?” I heard a voice, and it said “Charleston, South Carolina.” I’m not the greatest at geography, and I thought, “Charleston, West Virginia?” The voice said, “No, Charleston, South Carolina.” I went to the phone – this was before cell phone days – and said to the operator, “Is there a children’s hospital in Charleston, South Carolina?” “Yes, a great big one.” So I got the number and called, “Do you have a doctor there who deals with epilepsy?” They had a whole floor of epilepsy doctors. I told the secretary that I needed to talk to the kindest doctor they had on staff. Dr. David Griesemer called me back. I explained to him that we needed new medicine. “You come down here. We’ll help your son. By the way, how did you find me?” I said, “I prayed. God told me to go to Charleston, South Carolina.” He said “I lived in Mesa, Arizona, and I prayed, and I was told to move to Charleston, South Carolina. Come down. We’ll help you.” Sure enough, he took my son off those drugs and started him on another medication. My son grew to love this man, and he grew to love my son. As my son got older, the priesthood leadership thought it was too dangerous for him to serve a mission because of his epilepsy. We called Dr Griesemer. It turned out he had family members who were members of the Church, so he knew what a mission meant to Jon. He wrote a letter to the Church, that Jon could serve because he would consistently take his medication. Even though it would make him sick, Jon would take his drugs, and those drugs were controlling his seizures. Dr. Griesemer, “Send Jon to a place that has good hospitals and where ward members will feed him good meals.” Our son was called to serve in the California Roseville Mission. The members fed him wonderful meals and took care of him, and he was able to serve a full-time honorable two-year mission. He came back from his mission and went to BYU-I, met a lovely girl, fell in love, got married in the Idaho Falls Temple, and now they have three children. I thank God for telling me about South Carolina and Dr. David Griesemer because I never would have found him on my own. Even now, when I think about God answering that prayer and the long-range effects it’s had on my son’s life, I weep with gratitude for that moment.It seems to me, at least in my life, when I need an answer so bad, I want it worse than I want air to breathe, I’ve gotten an answer. In this case, I wasn’t even fasting. I was just in my front room on my knees pleading with God, and that’s when the answer came. I think that’s probably a key to gaining revelation – how badly do you want the answer and how quickly are you going to act on it? Are you willing to act on it? I think that maybe we sometimes ask for information, but God knows we won’t do what He’s about to tell us. He doesn’t want to get us in trouble, so He doesn’t give us the answer. He’s trying to protect us from ourselves. How did you teach your kids this, so they can pass the principle down to your grandchildren? What were some strategies you used to teach your kids about revelation? Of course, they all know about Jon. They all know that I heard a voice. When I think about that, it’s probably more accurate to say it was a very clear thought in my mind. So clear that it seemed like a voice, so clear that I thought someone was speaking to me. All of our children know this. I’ve taught them to fast at critical moments in their lives – we call it two out of three. For example, if you’re considering marrying Susie, you need to think about it logically. You might write down everything you like about Susie, everything you don’t like about Susie. Look at the things you don’t like and think – can I live with those personality traits for an eternity? I’m not ever going to change Susie – this is what she is, can I live with these traits? Then do a fast three times, maybe a month apart, and ask, “God, is this the right decision? If this is right, please bless me with peace of mind.” That’s how I taught them. To use fasting, prayer, and listening. I think the answers come but we get up too quickly from our prayers. We need to stay on our knees a bit longer and think more, listen, and just see what our feelings are. Sometimes in our busy, busy lives, we say a prayer and jump up and go. We’re busy. Sometimes the answers are coming, we’re just not listening. Kathy and Larry McArthur One more story. When my husband and I left Brigham Young, our goal was to get through the WVU Wildlife Ecology Ph.D. program without any debt. We were living in married student housing, and it was tiny. One summer, Larry was doing research in a forest about three hours away. So he was gone Monday through Friday and came home Friday night. I was a Young Women leader. I took my children to someone’s house to be babysat, I’d go out and pick up the Young Women girls for the activities, and then I’d do the reverse. I would arrive home very late, and Larry wasn’t there. I carried the kids in one at a time because they’d fallen asleep in the car, and then I would get them settled into bed. One night, my phone rang even though it was late, I picked it up and all I could hear was a person breathing, and I could hear an air conditioner. These were old apartments and they had old funny air conditioners, and they all made the same rattily sound. So I knew it was somebody in the complex who knew I was alone and had probably seen me carry my children in. And was watching me. So I hung up. It rang again, same thing, hung up. I just kept doing that, and I started to cry because I was scared. The phone rang again, and I picked it up, and it was my dad calling from Utah – “What in the world is going on at your house tonight?” So I told my dad – “There’s a creepy guy calling me, I’m here alone with the kids and Larry’s gone, and I’m scared.” My dad told me to call the LDS family that lived across the street, wake them up, and ask the husband to come over. So I called them, he came over and stayed with me for a couple of hours, and the phone calls stopped. I’ve always been amazed at that experience. How did my dad know to call me at that moment in time? His first question was not “How are you?” It was, “What in the world is wrong at your house tonight?” At key points in my life, I’ve been blessed with comfort and guidance, and help from another world. An add-on story to this – one night, I got the kids in bed, and I scrubbed my bathroom and made it as clean as it could possibly be. I needed a sanctuary. I needed a temple and I wasn’t close to a temple. I went in and knelt down, and said, “God, I’ve had it. Larry’s gone. I’m pregnant, I’m sick. I’ve got three kids. We have very little money. I’m 2,000 miles away from home. I’ve had it, I can’t take this anymore.” And I heard a voice. The voice said, “This too will pass.” I was touched because the voice wasn’t condemning. It didn’t say, “You’re not crossing the plains. Your feet aren’t bleeding. You’re not walking through a snowstorm.” It wasn’t putting me down. It was a voice that understood that I was fed up, that it was hard, and I had emotionally hit the end of my rope. It was a voice that understood. I have much gratitude to God for helping me at key points in my life. I can’t thank Him enough. I think it’s important for people to know that ordinary, run-of-the-mill members can get answers to prayers. You don’t have to be a general authority’s wife or the prophet’s wife. Just regular people. I think that’s what President Nelson is trying to teach us – you guys can tap into this too. A lot of younger women are talking more about Heavenly Mother, that they want a relationship with Heavenly PARENTS, not just Heavenly Father alone. What’s your take on that? Kathleen McArthur I’m still working that out in my head. I grew up in the generation where you absolutely did not talk about Heavenly Mother. I heard things like – people might take Her name in vain, so we don’t talk about Her, because we don’t want anyone to blaspheme Her name. More recently, if you look at General Authorities statements, they are saying “Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.” Our wonderful hymn “O My Father” talks about Heavenly Mother. That was written back in Joseph Smith’s day and the hymn was accepted as part of our religious beliefs. If it wasn’t true, you’d think that a prophet back then would have said, “We’re not going to use this verse.” Do I pray to Heavenly Mother? No. Do I know that She’s there? I do. Do I know that She loves me? I do. Do I look forward to meeting Her? I do. In my patriarchal blessing, it says that I have angels and they will whisper words of wisdom and counsel in my ears. They have, over and over. Not only is there a Heavenly Mother, but there are some very righteous women who are angels and helping me get through life. Oh, how I appreciate them and value their cooperation, guidance, and words of wisdom. I think about women who pray and don’t get answers – I have friends who are in that category. They fast and pray and plead, and they don’t get answers. I don’t have answers for them. I just know that there is a God, and that He loves us, and that there’s a Heavenly Mother who loves us. And I have been assigned angels who have helped me at critical points. I know the Book of Mormon is true. I know that Joseph Smith restored the gospel. I know that President Nelson is a prophet and seer today. As I cling to the gospel and try to obey the commandments, I hope that my posterity will do the same. That’s it. At A Glance Name: Kathleen Parker McArthur Age: 71 Location: Elkins, West Virginia Marital History: Married December 1971-Present Children: Larry Dean, McArthur (Kim), Jen, Doug, Jon, Ben, Katie, Scott Occupation: Retired Middle School Teacher Convert to the Church: Yes, aren’t we all Schools Attended: BS Family and Consumer Science, MA Learning Disabilities Languages Spoken At Home: English – with a little West Virginian Favorite Hymn: Hark, All Ye Nations Interview Produced by Trina Caudle

Alexandria Scott has a background in nonprofit work, so when she didn’t find the resources she wanted to teach her children about being anti-racist, she created them herself. Could you please tell us a little about your background, family, and education? I was born and raised in Baltimore, Maryland as one of five children. I attended BYU Provo and received a BA in Political Science in 2008 after which I served a mission to Taipei, Taiwan. I feel like my work experiences were a big part of my education. During and after college and my mission, I worked for several different nonprofit organizations. I learned so much! Ditto Kid Magazine What was the catalyst that led you to create the magazine Ditto Kids? As the mother of young children, I saw first-hand and early on the importance of teaching my kids not just about diversity and inclusion or tolerance, but about being actively anti-racist. I looked everywhere for resources that could help me get organized and feel prepared to teach my kids on a consistent basis, but I wasn’t able to find anything. Antiracism is a fairly new term for a lot of people – how do you define it, and what does it mean to you? What separates it from inclusion and diversity? The primary goal of anti-racism is to dismantle systems of racism and create restorative justice. The root of anti-racism is action. The difference between anti-racism and diversity/inclusion is that anti-racism advocates for systemic change, and diversity & inclusion advocates for education and change without changing or analyzing accepted systems. Sister Joy D. Jones just spoke in General Conference about proactively teaching our children the gospel of Jesus Christ. What are some specific ways this fits into that charge from Church leaders? Every baptized member of our church commits to serve the Lord, mourn with those that mourn, and love their neighbor as themselves. This is, of course, about as difficult as it gets and it’s a life-long journey. But we can give our kids a head start by teaching them gospel principles within this context. The Savior’s gospel is an integral part of my life, and truly, a lot of how Ditto Kids is formatted and what it touches on is related to that. We talk about honesty, humility, and being willing to change when we realize we are wrong or have made a mistake and what a wonderful gift that is. Why was a magazine your choice of medium to share what you want to say? (As opposed to a book or podcast.) Over the course of a few years, I researched, took classes and workshops, and began to write a curriculum supplement that would help parents and educators guide kids through anti-racism using decolonized history and culture. I decided to put it in magazine form with plenty of images, stories, and activities as a simpler and more engaging way to help kids connect with the magazine. I felt like there were so many resources out there for parents or teachers to educate themselves and then to teach kids, but nothing that was expressly for kids. Where does the magazine name come from, what is the meaning of “Ditto” Kids? Every kid wants to be loved, wants to learn, wants to play, wants to feel and know that they’re special. We want kids to learn that when they meet people who they might not think they have much in common with, to remember that actually, “ditto,” they do! We can embrace our similarities, celebrate our differences, and care for and support each other and advocate for each other’s fair treatment. Has there been any feedback about experiences kids have had after engaging with your material that you could share? I think some of the most common feedback we’ve received from caregivers and educators is that this is a reference volume. It stays on their shelf and is something they can refer back to time and time again. Because of this and the way it’s formatted, we’ve received feedback that it really helps to set the stage for important conversations to come up naturally. Alexandria Scott What does the phrase “all are alike unto God” mean to you? More than anything, at this point for me, it serves as a reminder that still, people need to be taught this. It seems to be the quintessential struggle of the human experience and we all need help. And that makes me sad for us in some ways as people; but ever grateful for God, for inspiration and that humankinds’ ways and wisdom are not the edge of our understanding. What are some actions that you have taken as a parent with your own children to practice true Christian fellowshipping? To care for themselves and be authentic in their relationships and interactions with others. I think being real and vulnerable with yourself and others makes truer connections and that’s how we lift each other up. Are there any specific scripture references that you personally focus on to support your work? 3 Nephi 14: 7-8: “Ask, and it shall be given unto you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh, receiveth; and he that seeketh, findeth; and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.” I love this scripture because it reminds me that I won’t learn what I need and want to know if I don’t humbly ask others and the Lord. In my opinion, examining our own biases is some of the most challenging work that there is and though it’s a lifelong journey, it’s aided by humbly listening and embracing repentance and change as a wonderful and important thing. Would you be willing to share a time in your own life of examining a bias and changing yourself, and how the Lord helped you through that experience? I was definitely influenced by unfortunate commonly held beliefs in our faith and the wider faith community regarding LGBT persons and rights. In high school, I had some friends who identified as LGBT. They were just kids like me and what I was being taught didn’t square with what I saw around me. We’ve all been blessed with eyes to see and ears to hear and the Light of Christ. I think the Spirit is always trying to nudge us. Learning to separate impressions from what we’re hearing around us is a lifelong challenge for everyone. Is there a particular person of color in Church history you look up to as an example of faith? Darius Gray is a powerful example to me of the ability to make a difference. But I also think of the very many unknown. There are many people in the community who have chosen to take a step back from participating in the church who have a deep and abiding faith in God. I love seeing how often those closest to God are quietly faithful and often more unseen. I’d also love for us as a faith community to make them more visible! At A Glance Name: Alexandria Scott Age: 34 Location: Washington DC area Marital History: Married Children: 3 Occupation: Writer Convert to the Church: My family converted when I was 8- 1994 Schools Attended: BYU-Provo, BA in Political Science-2008 Languages Spoken At Home: English and French (non-natively) Favorite Hymn: Homeward Bound Website or Social Media You Would Like Featured: http://www.dittokidsmagazine.com Interview Produced by Trina Caudle

Rhina Toledo was born in the Philippines, lived temporarily in Spain, and is now in Mexico with her husband and their three children. Simple decisions have led her around the world with great impact. Haz clic aquí para leer la entrevista original en español Tell us a little bit about yourself- where did you grow up? I was born in the Philippines. We are five brothers and sisters. My mother was an elementary school teacher, and I was in her class when I was in 4th grade. My father worked in a restaurant in Manila. He would travel to Manila for two weeks, return to see us, and then go back to work again. Rhina Toledo Did you grow up as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? No, I learned about the Church when I was 21 and had recently finished college. I belonged to the Pentecostal church. My mom is a very devout Catholic, but I had not enjoyed going to church there. From the time I was eight, I was searching and enjoyed listening to other beliefs. My best friend, who was Pentecostal, invited me to her house and taught me about their church and I liked it. I started to find some things that filled my soul and spirit. I really enjoyed studying the Bible, but something was still missing for me. One day the Latter-day Saint missionaries stopped by my cousins’ house. I was curious and thought, “Let’s see what they have to say.” I was very skeptical because everyone said that they were anti-Christ. But I asked for a copy of the Book of Mormon, thinking that if I read it, I would be able to tell if they were anti-Christ. I started from the introduction. From the time I began to read, something caught my attention. There was something true in it, I could feel it, and so I continued reading. I remember that I decided I needed to pray, to ask God if it were true. And yes, I felt something. I was still reserved, though, and kept asking for more information. I didn’t want to be hasty. Were you like that in all aspects of your life? Were you generally that careful about making decisions? Yes, in the Bible they speak a lot of those who want to deceive us, those who will say that they are of Jesus Christ but that aren’t, and who want to distract us. I was hesitant for many days, but I felt something so powerful that I kept thinking that it must be true, this must be the word of God. I fasted, I prayed to God to know with a certainty that this was true, because I didn’t want to make a mistake that I would regret. Then I received a confirmation without equivocation. I knew that God was the only one who could have told me with that degree of certainty. I think three weeks later I was baptized. How did your family feel about this? They were sad and angry. The day that I was baptized, I had to go with the missionaries in one of those motor tricycles from my small village to the stake center. As we were leaving, my mother came running behind crying, “Rhina, Rhina, don’t leave!” It split my soul in two to see her running after me, and I didn’t think that I was going to be able to do it. I was determined to be baptized, and I was old enough to make that decision, but I still cried the whole way because my heart was broken. I got to my baptism, where I didn’t know anyone in the chapel except for the missionaries. The Elders introduced me to the senior missionary couple, and they were so loving, and even now I tear up thinking of them. The older brother said to me, “Rhina, I am not allowed to give you a hug, but I am going to give you a hug.” He gave me a hug and I was ready to go change into my baptismal clothes. But you know what, no one explains anything to you about the baptismal clothes! I put them on backwards! I wondered why they were so uncomfortable, and no one said anything to me! You were starting a new style, Rhina! It was so special anyway! You know what I remember most from that moment? When they confirmed me, I felt the Spirit so strong. I did not know at the moment that it was the Holy Spirit, but I was literally trembling. I don’t remember the words of that prayer, but I remember that feeling. What kept you from feeling isolated, being the only member of the church in your family? The senior missionaries visited me a lot. We had family home evenings at the homes of different members. At some point I found out that the branch president was a distant relative of mine. He helped me so much. He loaned me books about the gospel. A few months my father got a job in Spain and I left with him. My family was still very unhappy with me. They thought what I had done was awful. But at that point my conviction was total. It was like Joseph Smith said, no one could tell me that I had not felt what I’d felt. I had a strong testimony, and I do even today. But no one else in my family has ever joined the Church. Except for my husband, who joined the Church after we were married. Why did you go to Spain with your father? My father got a job there. We lived there for four years. Even though I lived there for that long, I mostly spent time with other people from the Philippines speaking Tagalog and wanted to learn Spanish. So, I went on the Internet. This was when chatting on the internet was just starting. This is how I met my husband, who was in Mexico. He helped me with my Spanish, and that is how everything started! Rhina Toledo with Her Family How long did you chat online before you met in person? More than a year. I kept telling myself that I would get to know him a little better before I went to meet him in person. So, I finally came here to Mexico to meet him, and I never returned to Spain! We started our family, and now we have three beautiful children: Sophie, Iñaki and Adrián. What was your husband’s path to becoming a member? For him, the senior missionaries also had a huge impact. They used to visit us when we first lived here in Playa del Carmen. We had a lovely friendship with them. We had them over to eat often and they talked to my husband, they spent time with him, they taught him, and then they just left it at that. One day, one of them said to me, “Rhina, you are soon going to be able to be sealed in the temple.” And I said, “How!? My husband hasn’t even been baptized!” I couldn’t believe it. I thought that would really be a dream come true. And it did come true through the patient friendship of many people. How did you come to be an English teacher? Rhina's English Class In the Philippines we learned English and Tagalog in school. At the beginning of our marriage, my husband had work with a good salary and housing, and I stayed home to care for our two older children. When our third son was born, I needed to look for work. I asked God to help me. I wanted to be close to my children and I didn’t want to work on Sunday, which meant I was probably going to be looking for a job forever. I prayed a lot and watched all the ads for jobs. Then one day, I was talking to one of the coordinators at the school where my children attended, and I mentioned I was looking for work. She said, “Come for an interview! We need an English teacher!” That job fit like a ring on my finger, and I was so grateful to my Heavenly Father for granting me all my wishes. I could be with my children, attend church on the weekends and go to the temple once a month. I knew that I was asking a lot of my Heavenly Father, but I asked, and He granted it to me. It made me feel like I had a purpose. I do not believe it was chance that led me to that job. A few years after starting that job, we moved to Puerto Aventuras, and attended a little branch. My husband lost his job, and we were not sure what we were going to do. At about that same time, some members from Canada who visited our branch told me they were looking for an English teacher for grades 7-9. The salary was double or triple what I had been making. I told them that I was interested, of course, and that is how I came to be working for such a generous organization. Tell me more about the school you work for. It is obvious that you have a deep love for your students and the difficult life situations they face. My bosses, Joel and Laura Bancroft, have been such an example to me. They love these people that they do not even know so much that they came from another country to start this program of teaching English to the neediest children. These students don’t otherwise have an opportunity to study English because they can’t afford a private school. And if the people here can speak English, they can earn more money. My bosses saw that need and opened this school to help them to have better work opportunities. How has the pandemic affected your classes? It is so difficult. We had to suspend school, and it is not possible to do our classes online. Families must pay for the data on their phones, and often it is a decision between food or online minutes. So, we decided not to force them to continue studying. I just hope that when this is over those who have left and gone back to the towns where their parents were born are able to return and study. I still feel like everything in my life from the Philippines to Spain has led me to Mexico, and that this is where I am meant to be. I love them, I love their culture, it is similar to my culture with its emphasis on families. I get along well with the people, they are so friendly! How have your life experiences helped you to follow the Savior? Rhina Toledo As a member of the Church, we all know that we should be followers of Christ. But I think that my personal mission has been to put effort into the small but important things, maybe to overcome the weaknesses that I have, to improve better day by day, and to keep trying even when I make mistakes. I also recognize that my family is my greatest mission. I am so grateful for the gift that is this beautiful plan we have, and the opportunities we have to repent. He always has us in mind. He is always reminding us who we can turn to. He wants us to know that if we get lost or make mistakes, it is not the end of the world, because He will help us. I think it is such a gift that our Heavenly Father gives us so many opportunities. When we make mistakes, we always have more opportunities! The Savior is always there with open arms to receive us. And I testify that there is nothing but God that can fill our souls with joy. At A Glance Name: Rhina Kathleen Toledo Benavides Age: 46 Location: Playa del Carmen, Quintana Roo, Mexico Occupation: ESL Teacher Convert to the Church: April 27, 1997 Schools Attended: Arellano University, BYUI Languages Spoken At Home: Spanish Favorite Hymn: I know that My Redeemer Lives Interview Produced and Translated by Jenny Willmore

Alejandra Salas enjoys writing, especially when her words can strengthen and support other women and their families. She felt prompted to use her gifts in creating in a new website called Refugios Fuertes (Strong Shelters) to share faith-based materials with women around the world. Haz clic aquí para leer la entrevista original en español Refugios Fuertes is a new collaboration with the LDS Women Project – they will be assisting in translating interviews and essays into Spanish. Were you born in the Church or are you a convert? Alejandra Salas My grandmother was a very devout Catholic until she learned about the Church at 30 years old. All the missionaries had to do was tell her it wasn’t good to smoke, and she threw her cigarette down and never returned to smoking. That’s how determined she was when she felt that something was right. Years after, her only son, my father, was married in the temple and gave her five grandchildren. I am grateful that my grandmother had the courage to change her life to follow Jesus Christ. I treasure that legacy more now that I am an adult, and I can understand how many things she left behind. Tell us about your family. My brothers and sisters and I were born in Argentina and then my parents decided to move to Europe to live. I lived in Italy, England, and Spain until I turned 23 and felt strongly that I should return to Argentina. My parents trusted my decision, and I came to live alone in Buenos Aires. Just two months after arriving, I met my husband, and six months later we married in the Buenos Aires temple. That experience taught me that the Lord shows us the path, and we move forward with only our faith, never knowing exactly what will happen. But He does know. This year my husband and I celebrated eleven years of marriage, and we have two daughters, one little boy, and we hope that more come in the future. That’s wonderful that you have the faith of your grandmother to act on the impressions you receive. Are you like your grandmother in other ways? Alejandra Salas with Her Family My grandmother carried a diary with her and took notes everywhere. She loved to write. I think that is something that we share as a family because my mother is a writer as well. A year ago, my husband shared something that made me ponder a lot about “writing.” We have the potential to receive the blessings in our Patriarchal Blessings, but they won’t come to us if we don’t do all that we can to bring them about. That changed the vision I had with respect to one of my promises in particular. I was “sitting and waiting” for opportunities to help and strengthen others by using my words. I pondered, I prayed, and finally, I decided to begin to write and record a podcast for women. Taking that step helped me to trust more in God, to see how He magnifies our actions when we try to use our talents to begin a great work. I see that a lot of women, like me, feel insignificant when thinking of how to help in such a depraved world with our “tiny” talents. We think maybe we can’t change anything and that makes us delay our small but good initiatives. But what if we decide to think differently about our talents? Each one of us could use her talents to do something small and afterward pray, asking Heavenly Father to consecrate that small effort so that it might be magnified and be of benefit to someone. We have to motivate ourselves to turn on our light, because as small as it may be, it is still brighter than the darkness of the world. I completely agree! I think that we have some talents thanks to our genetics, and it’s not that we don’t need to consecrate those talents, but I believe that we have all inherited talents from our Heavenly Parents as well, and that They hope that we consecrate those talents to bless the world. And the things we inherit from our Heavenly Parents are even more significant because they give us a purpose in God’s plan. I also believe that it’s from that part of us that we inherit from God that we get “divine discontent,” basically a feeling in the difference between who we are and who we could become. This divine discontent can motivate us and help us to remember our divinity. I am sure that we can make small steps towards becoming who we really are. I feel that I still lack so much! But I keep walking and trust in my Heavenly Father because He trusts me. Alejandra Salas and Analía It’s hard at times, especially when we feel like the answer is out of our comfort zone. For example, when the answer is “move to Argentina alone” or “start recording a podcast,” you have to trust that God will consecrate your intent and will help you. For example, when I committed to recording the podcasts, the Lord put in my path my friend Analía who had the same feeling about starting a project to support women. So we got together and built a website called Refugios Fuertes (Strong Shelters) where we share free materials, upload podcasts, and have a blog reflecting on strengthening the family. I notice that in the podcasts and blogs of Refugios Fuertes that you concentrate on encouraging and consoling women around the world in their efforts to live the gospel and strengthen their families. Why do you focus so much on this? What were the needs that you saw in the world? I think we’re living in a unique period in the world. Our leaders say that all the time. Evil is all around us, but the truth is that opportunities also abound, especially for women. Today we have a lot of privileges that our mothers and grandmothers didn’t. We just need to keep focused to feel encouraged and strengthen our homes. Our goal in Refugios Fuertes is to share that vision with other women and encourage them when they come up against life’s different situations with resilience and courage. I have been strengthened by listening to the experiences of other women and I have learned a lot from them. I think that we all have stories that could strengthen others. Alejandra Salas with Her Son I spoke about emotional resilience in a podcast, and a lot of women wrote to me after saying that it had helped them. My youngest son was born without sight in one eye, and this condition is physically apparent. He looks a little cross-eyed. That week, I had taken my son to the park and for the first time, I heard other children pointing at him and laughing at him. Obviously, I immediately felt dejected; I couldn’t speak. To see that they were making fun of him was like a dagger to my heart. My eyes filled with tears and I started to be filled with sad thoughts: that my son was always going to be like this; that my son was going to feel bad when he was older; I even thought, Why him? Why, when there were these children in the plaza with perfect eyes, why did my son have to be born with this problem? I had a knot in my throat and felt worse and worse. After a few minutes passed, my soul was in so much pain that I realized what was happening. I said to myself, “I am not going to think like this anymore!” I made the decision that day and I shared that in the podcast with other mothers. I realized that I was in control of my thoughts and could decide intentionally to change them. I replaced them, with a lot of effort, and decided that I was going to teach my son that his physical difficulties were not an impediment. God has a mission for him, just as he is, and he is exactly as he should be. My son needed a mother who admired him, who accepted him as he is, and that didn’t feel like crying when she thought of him, who could share that confidence in him that he will need to develop in life. We have the ability to change our thoughts and learning to do it will be key in our motherhood, especially in situations we can’t change. My positive thoughts can’t cure my son, but they do change me and my experience in the world. Sharing these experiences and listening to the experiences of other women fills you with hope. It’s realizing that we can change, we can be better each day, and that we can give everything a higher meaning than it seems to have at first glance. How did it make you feel to know that these experiences that you shared, and your decision to share them, helped so many sisters? I learned that we can find deep happiness when we put our gifts towards serving others. I read somewhere that the recipe for finding your purpose in life is to mix a little talent with service to others and I think that’s true. Life has more meaning when we get over our own insecurities, trust in our Heavenly Father, and consecrate what we are to the service of others. It also reminded me not to wait until I feel “capable” or “qualified” to act according to the promptings. When we begin to act, we learn as we go and train for that which we’re going to do. I remember an experience I had when I was 20 years old, and I went alone to live in London to learn English. I worked in a breakfast shop and we could take the paninis that were left over each day. On the way to my apartment, I always left a panini with a man who lived on the street and after a while, we started to talk. One day I told him that I was in London to learn English, but I didn’t have enough money to pay for a class yet. The next day, he was waiting for me with a notebook and a pencil, and he offered to teach me. When I told my friends, they also came so that he could teach them, and this man without a home became a volunteer English teacher. After leaving London, I didn’t hear anything about him and now, after all of these years, I meditate on how it would have felt for him to give that service. Maybe he found himself after beginning to serve others? I sincerely believe that we pass through different phases of life and there are moments in which we can give and moments when we need to receive. And above all, there are moments when we receive more light because we are giving. Because of that, what I would like most is to see some of my listeners and readers record podcasts as well, or get excited in Refugios Fuertes to edify other women. I think that as the world advances against the family, we have to speak more about correct principles and strengthen each other. We can encourage each other to be more than what we are and that will only happen when we “listen” to what the Father wants from us and we start to act. He will help us to change into that which we have the potential to be. I really like the emphasis that you put on mothers and sisters supporting each other. What support have you felt, and have your husband and your children felt from other women and other sisters of the Church? Alejandra Salas with Her Husband I think my husband is the best example for me. He is my best friend and my counselor. But I’ve also been very inspired by the women in my family. When I go through times of change, and it’s hard for me to adapt, I remember how my mother traveled alone to Italy without speaking a word of Italian to look for a better future for us. Thanks to her, we were all able to go there to live with her. When I feel like giving up on a project, I think about my older sister who achieved so much success in her work because of her responsibility and determination. My younger sister served as a missionary in Brazil and changed the lives of so many people. My maternal grandmother was a nurse who helped people even if they couldn’t pay her. Even my daughters are an inspiration to me because I see how Heavenly Father has put in them divine qualities so that they can prepare this world for the Second Coming. Having been surrounded by such noble women has been a blessing for me and gave me the courage to make good decisions. I’ve also been inspired by women like Heather Farrell and her books about the women in the scriptures. Not only have these books helped me, but knowing that she wrote them while a mother of six children is the most inspiring. Knowing her history helps me to be a better mother because my natural tendency is to dedicate myself 100% to my children. But seeing women like her who, besides being mothers, also use their talents to embark on other projects, helped me have a clearer vision of what Heavenly Father expected of me. Now, aside from dedicating a lot of time to my children, I also add other activities to my life that permit me to teach them by example. Alejandra Salas with Her Mother and Sister Our leaders have mentioned a lot lately that in this moment women should step forward and take their place at the side of men in the Kingdom. The talk by President Eyring called “Sisters in Zion” is a clear example that the call to women is to edify each other and I think that’s through example, service, and love. Having lived in different countries helped me to realize that there is a big difference between local cultures and the doctrine of the Church. Though the languages, the races, and the traditions might change, all women are called to take our places, trust in personal revelation, and act in accordance with it. I believe that God expects a lot of us and is telling us to be one, to help each other, to accept each other, and to welcome each other. Just before returning to live in Argentina, I was living in the Canary Islands and I was the only young single adult in my branch. Making a fairly immature decision on my part, I decided to stop attending the Institute classes because I was the only student. A while later, I happened to pass by the house we used as a chapel and I noticed that it was open. I went in and found Elena, my Institute teacher, alone in the classroom. I asked what she was doing there since I had let her know that I wasn’t going to attend anymore because I was her only student. I still remember her loving look when she answered, “you decided not to come anymore, but I decided not to stop preparing the classes. My Heavenly Father has given me this simple task and I am going to fulfill my commitment. When you want to come, you know that you will find me here.” After discovering the selfless service, my heart was moved and I returned to those Institute classes that were so necessary for a young woman. Even when we aren’t perfect in everything, we can all be examples of something specific. We can all fulfill our small part. At A Glance Name: Alejandra Salas Age: 35 Location: Buenos Aires Marital History: Married since 2010 to Ezequiel Children: Two daughters, 8 and 6, and a son, 2 years old Occupation: Right now, mother and independent worker Convert to the Church: Baptized in 1994, but my conversion is ongoing Schools Attended: Graduated in Business Administration from BYUI Languages Spoken At Home: Spanish, English and Italian Favorite Hymn: Abide With Me (Hymn 20) Website or Social Media You Would Like Featured: https://www.refugiosfuertes.com/ Interview produced and translated by Jenny Willmore

Maya Yerman Sanchez was raised primarily in Mexico and attended the Church-owned Benemerito High School as a teenager. She served a Portuguese-speaking mission in Cape Verde. She views being multicultural as a blessing, as she blends her varied heritage from the U.S. and Mexico in her life. Haz clic aquí para leer la entrevista original en español Where did you grow up and what was your family life like? Maya Yerman Sanchez “Where I’m from” was always a hard question to answer while growing up. I was born in California, but most of my childhood was in Mexico. I lived in Mexico from ages two to twelve, lived in Utah for a couple of years, and went back to Mexico to attend the Church boarding school there, the Benemerito. The campus is now the Missionary Training Center. My family stayed in Utah, so I wasn’t living at home from age 15. My mom and dad are both from the U.S. but my mom is a first-generation Mexican American. She grew up speaking Spanish; her dad was a migrant farmer. My parents met at BYU and they’re both educators. They had five girls so I only have sisters – it’s really great, we’re all really close. My family is very supportive and very close. We’re very open and we love each other a lot. I consider my sisters my closest friends and I think that they feel the same. That’s how I would describe my family. After we were born, my parents decided to do international education and went to Mexico because of that. Why did you decide to go to the boarding school in Mexico? After we lived in Mexico, my dad was hired by the Church to be the Director of Elementary and Secondary Schools. He went to the school in Mexico City often. We had been there when we were children because all the members in Mexico know that school in Mexico City. When we were living in Utah, we visited Mexico again to see friends and family. We visited the school and I told my dad, “I am going to come here.” I don’t think I realized it then, but it was definitely a strong spiritual impression that I had to attend. I did the whole application myself. My dad told me what I needed to do, but I wrote my essay, did what I had to do to get in, then ended up going when I was 15. I remember thinking when I got there, “What am I even doing here? How did I end up here?” It happened so quickly. My life just kind of led me there somehow. Attending that school has definitely been one of the best experiences of my life. Did you have to convince your parents? Were they nervous about it? Did they know enough about the school to trust it and feel good about sending you there? That’s young! That is young! I don’t know what was going through their minds but my dad visited maybe twice a year so they knew I’d see him, and I would obviously go home for vacation. My mom didn’t get to have similar experiences while growing up because of finances, like study abroad, so she was very excited that I could go and experience something like this. Another thing is that it was run by the Church and had a long history. I had family who worked there, aunts and uncles. I had cousins from Mexico who had gone there. So my parents were familiar with the school. I’m sure they were nervous to some degree, but I think they were overall excited. I enjoyed Utah, but out of my sisters, I definitely had the strongest connection to Mexico. I think my parents noticed that and saw that maybe I would be happier if I went back, and I was. I felt totally happy and just enjoyed the experience. I was at the Benemerito for two years and graduated from there. I was definitely happy, and my parents were really happy that I attended. Maya Yerman Sanchez with Her Sisters What were some of the differences in your church experience between Mexico versus Utah? What were some of the cultural differences? My family attended an expat (people living outside their native country) ward in Mexico City when I was younger, so almost everyone spoke English, and the majority of the members were from the U.S. There’s no ward boundary for it – everyone who speaks English who wants to can attend there. It’s called the Lomas Ward in Mexico City. Many people work for the embassy or the U.S. government, or multinational corporations. I felt like a lot of the members were doers, so things always worked the way they were supposed to. It was also neat to grow up with kids from all over the world, from so many different countries. There was a lot of support for all of the activities. I realize now that not every ward is that way. Because the ward was in English, I didn’t feel a huge transition when we moved to Utah. I was about 12 when we moved to Utah – when you’re that age, I think you don’t feel those differences as much. I felt a bigger transition from my high school experience to my college experience. In high school, you are experiencing a lot more, and you understand more of the cultural differences. I went from a student ward of 15 to 18-year-olds in Mexico City to a student ward of 18 to 25-year-olds in Provo, Utah. So that was a big difference. The gospel is obviously the same, but every culture gives it a different feel. There’s a warmth and connection that was more difficult for me to feel in U.S. English wards. Not that there wasn’t friendliness or activities, but there’s a little more structure in the U.S., which is nice, actually, but seemed less organic. I had to get used to it. It was just easier for me to feel included in the wards in Mexico. You are instantly family. However, sometimes there was a lack of structure to a fault. Everything starts a little bit late in Mexico and goes a little bit longer than it should, so you have to be comfortable with this slight lack of structure. I think if someone came from a U.S. ward to a Mexican one, it would be frustrating for them because “Why aren’t we starting on time?” I think it can get hard for missionaries too. Those are some differences. Can you say more about the warmth? It’s the culture that affects that. In a ward in Mexico, everyone feels like family. You instantly connect. You meet with people or go to their house once, and you already feel a genuine connection with them. It’s tough to explain unless you’ve experienced it. You know someone cares by the way they treat you, by the way they talk to you, by the way they look at you and make you feel. In my experience, I think that it is a lot easier with Latinos because they reciprocate and are very welcoming. It is easy to have fun. I remember getting together with a group of friends in Utah, and to have a conversation, a friend took out a book with conversation starter questions. It was fascinating. “What are your thoughts on … (a subject)?” And everyone would talk about their thoughts. It was intellectually stimulating, and we got to know each other’s thoughts, but there was also a need for structure during our time together – what are we going to do in this specific amount of time? I notice that when I talk, like right now, I go all over the place. In Latino wards, you just share, connect, open yourself up. You don’t need everyday conversations to be led by questions (small talk); instead, they are led by stories. I will add that it’s not always like this in the U.S., but it is a general cultural difference when you are first meeting people. To give a more specific example – as a student in Mexico, when a teacher asked a question in Sunday School, anyone would answer. There’s no raising your hand; you just speak. Then someone else speaks. In a ward in Provo, everyone would take a turn, and there was more organization. Is one better than the other? I don’t know because, in one class, there’s actual structure and leading the conversation somewhere. In the other, you get to hear a lot more personal thoughts and experiences, and people seem more open about speaking.In my experience, U.S. LDS Sunday classes seem more analytical or focused on friendly debate and bringing in knowledge. In Latino wards, it’s, “I have this experience, let me share it.” A lot more informal and more about feeling and emotion. In the U.S., it’s more about trying to make things click, leading to an “Aha!” moment. In my Spanish-speaking branch and my Mexican ward, you do want to understand things, but there is more focus on understanding things on an emotional level. What does your heart feel? There is a very emotional way of approaching the gospel and a more logical way of approaching it, and I’ve come to appreciate both. Are there things that affected your understanding of the gospel either from one culture or another, or by comparing the two? Does this affect not just your cultural knowledge but your actual understanding of the gospel? There’s the scripture where Heavenly Father says, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart” (D&C 8:2). It seems that I feel the Spirit more in Spanish or even Portuguese. My greatest spiritual experiences were in those languages. When I want to feel the Spirit, for example, when I’m speaking to someone about the gospel, it’s so much easier to connect spiritually in Spanish than in English. But when I study the scriptures and want to understand or analyze things, it’s much easier for me in English. It’s like my spiritual whole – my mind and my heart. I need both languages to feel complete. When I think about how I understand the gospel, there are principles associated with the language that I learned them in. Maya Yerman Sanchez with Her Husband It’s interesting that you differentiate between studying and connecting in the different languages – both languages are part of who you are. Then you got your mission call to speak Portuguese in Cape Verde – was that a surprise? How did this third language and culture affect your gospel understanding, if at all? I was surprised. When I went on my mission, I was just happy and ready to go. I felt like I had been through a lot to get there, so anywhere would be fine, wherever Heavenly Father wants me to be. I was kind of surprised but kind of not, because I had been taking Portuguese at BYU and I thought, maybe that’s why I was called there because I put on my papers that I was learning Portuguese. But I was surprised that Cape Verde existed! You then became at least missionary fluent, spiritually fluent in Portuguese. Did that affect your knowledge and understanding of the gospel, bringing a third language and another continent and cultural way of living into your view? It definitely affected me because, as a missionary, my spiritual language was Portuguese and not Spanish. That was the language I would use to connect with people and the Spirit. There were a lot of cultural similarities. I loved Cape Verde because people there accepted the gospel with so much ease, and therefore, the blessings of living the gospel were almost always immediately apparent. I think that was partly because there weren’t as many distractions that cloud spirituality as there are in the U.S. There is a growing culture, especially in my generation, that persistently asks faith-demolishing questions. I feel like everything is overanalyzed in the U.S. and scrutinized from every point. It even feels political at times. And in keeping with that pattern, I ask myself, “But is that bad to question?” I don’t know, because you learn a lot and can validate everyone’s experiences. These societal pressures to question belief have sometimes been a challenge to my faith. But when you take that out, spiritual things are so straightforward. If you pray with real intent, you will get an answer. If you have questions about faith, you just practice having faith. You trust that through your efforts, you will receive a very real answer to life’s questions. You need to understand gospel principles in your mind, but they need to be practiced from the heart if you hope to really experience things of a spiritual nature. I don’t know if I would have learned how to use my heart in spiritual matters without exposure to the Church in different cultures. If I had not gone on my mission, I wouldn’t have learned how powerful simply applying the gospel principles can be. I still catch myself being pulled by the social pressures of everyday life, but then I remember how many of the members in Cape Verde lived the gospel so fully and experienced the blessings so abundantly. I also remember my own spiritual experiences. It was real, and it’s something I will never forget.As for my knowledge, I learned a lot from my mission president, my companions, just from having so much time to study. I don’t remember all the scriptures I memorized; I don’t remember all the lessons but learning the scriptures and lessons strengthened my relationship with the Spirit, and that I remember. Personally, one of the greatest things I learned on my mission is understanding how the Spirit works with me, and with that came more growth inside. I felt fuller. What is your husband’s cultural background? What have you been doing to combine your heritages? We’re both Mexican-American. He grew up here in El Paso, Texas. I don’t know what percentage it is, but almost every person I see is Latino, so it almost feels like a Mexican city on the U.S. side of the border. It’s nice to share cultural similarities with my spouse, and now with my community. I have a lot of love for the tradition, love for my heritage, love for the language, respect for both countries, and he gets that. After we were married, we moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He had a connection with the Hmong people during his mission, so we moved to Milwaukee so he could teach at a Hmong school. We attended the Spanish branch because I wanted to reconnect with Latino members, and with the spiritual connection I felt when learning the gospel in Spanish in Mexico. It was a new experience because the Spanish branch in the U.S. was very different from the Mexican wards I had attended. Almost everyone was within walking distance from our home, and a significant percentage of the branch was considered underprivileged. We had youth that had to talk to parole officers and things like that because it was in the inner city of Milwaukee. So we had challenges that I had not experienced before, and a lot of members dealing with difficult life struggles. Despite the challenges, we felt so connected to that branch and loved the experience there. We had abuelitas, and the members there felt like family even if it sometimes felt like organized chaos. Maya Yerman Sanchez with Her Husband Do you speak Spanish at home? We primarily speak English, but we go between both. When we lived in Milwaukee, we spoke more Spanish at home than when we did in Mexico City, which is strange, but my husband was the branch president of the Spanish branch. Your life is almost the branch. We were either with the missionaries or with the families. In a small branch, you are sometimes stretched thin, with multiple callings. So that meant a lot more time with the members than in a larger ward and speaking Spanish with a lot more frequency. We would leave church speaking Spanish, and have language fluidity. With our daughter, we speak only Spanish, but she’s picking up English from her cousins. We pray with her in Spanish. You can look at being multicultural and multilingual as a blessing or a difficulty. I view it as a blessing because I can go with Spanish speakers and feel comfortable, or go with English speakers and feel comfortable. There’s always a part of me that feels a little bit different, but we’re not here in this world to all be the same. I enjoy connecting to people in both languages and feel the ease of going to the Spanish ward if I want to, or the English ward, knowing that each has different challenges and something special to offer. That’s just the way life is; you have to go and adapt. Right now, we’re in an English ward, and we’ll probably go to a Spanish ward in the future depending on what kind of experience we want. I get the sense that you feel more alive in Spanish culture. Would you say that’s fair? I think anyone who speaks multiple languages can say that they have different personalities in each language. I feel like I connect differently to people in different languages. In English, I’m a little more extroverted but in Spanish it’s easier for me to connect with people. Being extroverted does not mean connection to me. In Anglo cultures, I feel like culture is very individual, whereas in Latino cultures, it’s a group mindset and you always feel like you are part of a group. I definitely have a love for my Latino Hispanic background, a love for Latinos and people from all cultures really. Does your husband still work with the Hmong people or language? Is that part of your family life? I never picked up very much of it because I wasn’t around it, but we picked up parts of the culture in the sense of the cuisine. When we moved to California, we stocked up on Hmong sausage because we love it. Hmong people in the U.S. are generally in certain states – Northern California, Minnesota, Wisconsin. Not in El Paso. Since we left Wisconsin, we haven’t done much with the Hmong community but we have really good friends who are Hmong that we still visit when we go to California. Back to your childhood, what kinds of things did your parents do to keep you connected to all sides of your cultural heritage? I know they tried to speak to us in Spanish. My dad served a Spanish-speaking mission, so in the two years that we were in California, my mom made an effort to speak Spanish. When we went to Mexico, we picked up Spanish from school. We spoke Spanish at school with our friends and had church in English with other friends there. We just learned both languages growing up. I really perfected my Spanish when I attended high school in Mexico. My parents were always good at telling stories about our heritage – letting us know about who our grandparents were and where we came from. On my mom’s side, my grandmother, Maria de la Cruz, is a convert. When she was about 16, she was invited to a party but didn’t go because her family was invited to a church primary activity. There was a huge fire at the party and she thought, “This activity just saved my life, I’m going to church.” She became a member of the Church, and she was the first sister missionary in Tijuana. She loved serving so much that she extended her mission, serving 25 months. She kept extending it. The Tijuana Temple was recently dedicated, and she was invited as a special guest for being one of the pioneers in the state of Baja California. The church authorities in Mexico published a history of the pioneers of Mexico and she’s mentioned there. My grandfather, Carlos de la Cruz, was the first branch president in Tijuana. Learning that and being told stories about them connects us with the spiritual or religious history of my family. My dad also told us stories about his parents. My grandfather, Jack Yerman, was also a convert. He was an athlete and ran in the Olympics and was a gold medalist in the 1960 Olympics. He met my grandmother, Margo Brown (Yerman), at Berkeley. They were at a party, and my grandmother didn’t drink and he didn’t drink, and that was how they connected. My grandmother was a member of the Church and my grandfather was being healthy for sports. They ended up dating and he became a member of the Church later on. My parents have made an effort to retell my family history through stories. It is because of this effort that I have a strong connection with both my Mexican side and my American side. That all makes a part of who I am. We share stories of family members who have overcome challenges – when you have your own challenges, you think, “It’s already part of me, I can do it too!” Just hearing stories of your past family members is very empowering and makes you realize where you come from and sometimes why you do things a certain way. Those are awesome stories. They’re a reminder that pioneer ancestors come in many different forms and places. Anything else you want to share? Going back to the main subject of this interview, I just want to be sure I share my appreciation for what our multicultural church has taught me. The Church is the same everywhere, and yet it’s also so different, and that is beautiful. The cultural differences are something that should be celebrated – they really bring different layers to spiritual understanding, and spiritual connection. It has influenced who I am and who I will become. At A Glance Name: Maya Yerman Sanchez Age: 29 Location: El Paso, Texas Marital History: Married Children: 1 Occupation: Photographer Convert to the Church: No Schools Attended: BA Languages Spoken At Home: Spanish, English Favorite Hymn: Nearer, My God, to Thee Website or Social Media You Would Like Featured: http://mayaisabellaphotography.com Interview produced by Allie Bradford Brown

Jenna Hardy joined the National Guard at age 17, and while her high school friends were serving missions, she was serving in the military in Afghanistan. Whether she’s attending her local ward in Colorado or interacting with military personnel from other countries while on duty, she connects with people by finding common ground. Tell us a little about yourself. I was raised in Colorado my entire life. I joined the Colorado National Guard when I was 17, right before my senior year of high school. I drilled with the National Guard throughout that year, and went to basic training after graduation. At age 20, I did my first deployment to Afghanistan. I came home, went to college, received a scholarship to become an officer with the National Guard, and was commissioned at the age of 24. This summer, I will be wrapping up ten years in the Colorado National Guard.I was really young, so I have to think on why I joined. Growing up, I had no intention of joining the military. I was raised as a military brat, so I knew what it meant to have a parent gone from the house a lot. It was hard, and I swore I would never do that to my family. Well, then the Spirit, through personal revelation, made it known to me that this is the path I needed to take. I had an inner desire to serve something with purpose, to have a purpose. The Spirit also gave me insight as to who I could become and the difference I could make if I took that step in my life. So I went ahead. I looked at my parents and said, “I’m going to join the National Guard!” What’s the difference between active duty military and the national guard? How does your civilian job fit with that?The main difference between Active Duty and Guard service is the operational tempo, or number of training and deployment days. State National Guard units conduct one weekend (2-4 days) with an additional two to four weeks of training per year. In addition to being a federal asset, National Guard also belongs to the state. This means that we can be called to serve on state assignments or emergencies such as the Capitol riots in January 2021. We serve our communities in addition to our nation.We do have civilian jobs to maintain when we are not conducting our military duties. We work our usual scheduled hours until the allotted dates/times required to complete our military obligations. Our employers also serve our states and our nation by making accommodations that allow us to complete our military duties and come back to work when all is said and done. Were you raised in the Church? Yes, ma’am. My mother was a convert and I was raised in the Church. I have the unique experience of being baptized in the Tabernacle on Temple Square, prior to it being closed. [The baptismal font in the Tabernacle was removed during the building renovation in 2007.] I did not serve a traditional mission. My peers and I were immediately qualified to serve when the Church changed the age limit for missionaries to 19 for females and 18 for males. But while my peers were serving traditional missions, I was on my way to Afghanistan. That experience taught me that there is more than one way to serve and promote the Lord’s plan of salvation. Of note, it is possible to do both. The military makes accommodations for those who wish to serve a traditional mission after they joined the military. For sure, there is more than one way to serve. How did you promote the Lord’s plan of salvation while in Afghanistan? Was it within your military group or with the people of Afghanistan? Jenna Hardy Establishing Common Grand I did not have the experience of interacting with the local people in Afghanistan. We were given set rules to follow when engaging with those who worked on the base and were not permitted to engage with or attempt to promote other faiths with the local populace.As to promoting the lord’s plan of salvation, I feel I’ve borne my testimony more in uniform than I think I ever could have on a traditional mission. Being LDS, let alone a female LDS soldier – it’s very rare. Those who know I’m LDS have said, “I know a couple of men who are LDS, but you’re the first female I’ve ever met who’s LDS.” That opens a window of opportunity to share my testimony and some basic principles of the gospel. One of the more common windows of opportunity to share is the fact that I don’t drink coffee. In the military, people react, “Are you insane? How do you survive?” Another occasion is that I don’t drink alcohol, though I make an awesome designated driver. When I say I don’t drink, I sometimes get asked, “Are you pregnant?” I consider all of those windows of opportunity to share my testimony, my beliefs, the Church, what the Church focuses on. I’ve noticed that it plants a seed. I have worked with officers from foreign countries and sometimes have the opportunity to share my beliefs as they do with theirs. Once, when I was working with an officer from Mauritania, we had a discussion about green tea and the Word of Wisdom. I’m not sure if it’s a skill I’ve developed over time, but if you can find a common ground, you can explain a basic principle in a way that can be understood. We disputed over the benefits of green tea and we left at “we’ll agree to disagree.” But I was able to explain my beliefs and perspective in a way that he was able to understand, without causing any offense. Knowing his background and a bit about his culture – that helped build common ground when working with him and explaining a principle like the Word of Wisdom. I have a funny story about finding common ground with others. When I was in Afghanistan, we had to take turns doing gate guard. A couple of the Afghan men were curious because I was the first female they’d worked with there, and they had a lot of questions. One question was why American men only have one woman/wife. They explained to me that the number of girlfriends and wives they had was dependent upon their financial situation, so it was common for a very wealthy man to have multiple wives or girlfriends. The gentleman I was speaking with had two wives and one girlfriend. I thought about how to answer in a way that would be politically correct and wouldn’t offend. I finally said, “Because American women are very expensive.” I share this story to show that you can find simple ways to explain even in unique situations like the one I found myself in at that time. Regarding integrating with others who are not of the same culture or the same country, prayer also assists, especially if you’re going to be in a country for a long time. Having gospel knowledge and finding common ground to communicate a basic principle or idea – that’s how you can give better understanding without creating offense. I used to get upset that I don’t have one of those huge conversion stories that people like to share. Through prayer and personal revelation, I’ve realized that through sharing my testimony while in uniform, I’ve planted seeds that others will help to grow and nurture along the way, should the individual choose to pursue that route. Finding common ground is in missionary training – the term used is “build on common belief.” Missionaries try to find some way to connect with a person before they start teaching the lessons. That’s something I’ve really tried to promote within my own wards and social groups. Often, members of the Church find it hard to connect or find a common ground with someone simply because we do not understand. For example, I just got married in January and we went to our new family ward. When we met the Relief Society president, I said, “I’m military so sometimes I’m not going to be here for church activities.” She was so surprised. As we introduced ourselves to others in the ward, the surprise and uncertainty was very noticeable to myself and my husband. It was simply because I am considered an anomaly, almost something foreign that people don’t really know how to compute because as I said, there are very few females in the LDS Church who serve in the military. So, understandably, how does one respond to that? That’s been a struggle for me for the majority of my career. Not a lot of people understand. It’s not like I’m gruff, rude, crass or anything like that. You’d probably have no idea I’m military unless I told you. Finding people who understand or don’t treat you like you’re this foreign adversary is something I didn’t often experience until I moved to Denver. Something I’ve noticed within the Church culture – when we meet somebody who breaks the mold or doesn’t fit in, a lot of times, we just don’t know how to find common ground. Working with someone from another country and another culture is almost easier than meeting someone who is different within our own culture or our own society. In our mind, we have a category to put them in. If they’re from a foreign country, we can dismiss anything that might not align with our personal thoughts and feelings because it’s different, it’s foreign. But when you have somebody who is different within your own ward or social group that may challenge your thoughts and feelings, we haven’t quite figured out how to compute that. Finding common ground and creating understanding – I think that’s what has really helped me speak with people who are outside my own culture. I’ll be honest, I don’t think I even have a culture – I live in both the military culture and the LDS culture. My feet are in two different cultures and I bounce back and forth. Common ground and understanding are how you find a way to communicate your feelings effectively, because while different, I’m a sister just like you. What are some strategies you use to find common ground? What I do, and I encourage my soldiers to do, is to ask questions. If you don’t understand, or even if you do understand, get to know the individual, try to find that common ground. Sometimes you won’t. But asking questions to gain a better understanding allows a foundation of friendship and civility. Not everyone you meet is going to be your friend – we don’t always get along with everybody we meet. But ask questions and get to know an individual. Even if you don’t understand them entirely, you can empathize and be a caring friend.For example, you’re a mother of five kids, correct? I don’t have that experience because I’m not a mother yet, but I can empathize. That is something I’ve struggled with throughout my career. While all my friends were getting married and having babies, I had yet to meet my spouse. I’d love to say that I can understand that experience, but truthfully, I can only empathize with it. I’m going to use an example of finding a common ground between motherhood and being a soldier, if that’s okay. My best friend has two babies with another on the way. Even though I don’t understand what she’s going through – I can only imagine, three little humans, oh my goodness – I can still try to relate through my own experiences. She was having a hard week this week. She’s in her third trimester. Her kids are toddlers – they want Mom, they want this, they want that. She was venting and said, “I don’t know how to do this!” Well, I’ve had to deal with grown humans so there are a couple of things I can relate to. She’s feeling overwhelmed – what do I do when I’m overwhelmed? I asked her, “When’s the last time you had some self-care time?” When I say self-care, I’m not talking about face mask or mani-pedi. I mean taking time to sit down and reading a book, go for a walk, and take time for herself. She said, “I haven’t!” “Do yourself a favor and take thirty minutes if you can when the kids are sleeping, and do something just for you, okay?” She said she’d do that, but she has so many tasks in her mind. So I thought, “What do I do when I’ve got so many things in my mind that it’s just scrambling?” I have two planners, one for work and one for personal use, that I use to write things down – the mind tends to make things bigger than they actually are. But if you write it down, it helps you contextualize things better. That’s how I’m able to handle my mountains of tasks between my civilian job and my military job. So I asked her, “Have you tried writing it down?” It worked for her! So as a gift, I sent her a self-care book and a planner. So even though I don’t have that common ground of having children, I’m still able to relate and empathize, and be a support regardless of the lack of similar experiences. You don’t have the same experience but you can relate – it’s not “I’m overwhelmed with three kids,” it’s “I’m overwhelmed.” And then you connect over how you deal with the feeling, regardless of the situation around it. Right. And when you’re listening to someone else, actually listen. That’s another part of finding the common ground. Too many times we listen just to find a response. It’s okay to say, “I’m sorry, I empathize,” or “What can I do to support you?” then leave it at that instead of trying to say, “I had this happen to me.” A lot of times, your experience is not going to equate on the same scale for the individual that you are listening to, especially if you have not been in the same and or similar situation yourself.To give an example, coming home from my first deployment was a profound experience for me. One of my friends tried to equate it to a three-week firefighting course that she’d done. I was thinking, “No. Those are not the same.” Listening, instead of listening to answer, is another key component to building or finding common ground. I like that. How do your church membership and military service support each other in your life? I don’t think I would have made it this far in my career or had as much success in both my military career, civilian career, and even my Church membership, if I didn’t have the constant companionship of the Spirit. Most people think that the crude environment of the military would drive away the Spirit. If anything, it encourages me to draw closer to it. For me as a leader, I have the responsibility and care of soldiers in addition to my duties as an officer. Leadership is a privilege to serve. It’s not a podium to do my own agenda. I’m there to serve. My biggest fear is to have to make a phone call one day to tell a spouse or a mother that their soldier is not coming home. To make the right decisions, to make the right choices that are taking care of my soldiers and completing the mission in full, I have to have the companionship of the Spirit at all times. I’ve noticed throughout my career that my relationship with the Lord has conditioned me to rely heavily on Him, and to be very sensitive to spiritual promptings. That took work. It didn’t happen overnight. One of the things I have to do – part of my self-care plan every day – is morning prayer, scripture study, evening prayer, journal. Making sure that I’m always in tune with the Spirit by setting that tone for myself that day. Even if that’s all I get to do, that is enough for me to be able to be sensitive to the Spirit. There are days that I just feel so disconnected and wrapped up in struggles so I can’t really hear it. But I’ve found that there’s more than one way for the Spirit to make itself known. That is the biggest way that my Church membership has supported my military service. Jenna Hardy For military service supporting my Church membership, there are a lot of basic concepts and principles that my military service has taught me that have benefitted my Church membership. For example, resilience is something we often rely on Christ for. As soldiers, we are taught how to maintain resilience, not in a religious focus but from an overall standing. You can find the connection between the two teachings especially when you’re trying to help somebody else because we rely on Christ all the time, but we don’t always have a sound understanding of how we can accomplish what we’re asked to do. Having that knowledge has helped me teach and assist my husband as well as others in the Church. My military service has also helped me maintain my testimony and stay within the Church. I had a very poor experience with local Church leadership a couple of years ago that almost made me walk away from the Church entirely. The Lord did not make it easy for me to walk away and I’m glad that I didn’t. But being a leader myself, reflecting on the teaching and training from my military career, reminded me to have more understanding and patience, especially when a leader is in the wrong. We’re all human. A question was asked in one of my Institute classes: if the prophet gets it wrong, how can we rely on him all the time? One of the common principles that we are encouraged to follow as soldiers is “trust but verify.” We can always pray and get confirmation of what a Church leader is asking. It builds our testimony and faith in what that leader is sharing, and it builds our relationship with the Lord. My military service has also taught me how to have a good relationship with the Lord. I got to a point in my last assignment that when I asked my soldiers to do something, they wouldn’t ask questions, “Yes ma’am,” and they’d get it done. It was the result of a good team and work environment. I built that environment first with open communication, which built trust, and trust led to faith. Faith is what got my soldiers to do what I asked them to do, when it needed to be done, without question. When you compare your relationship to the Lord, we like to say, “You gotta to have faith.” Well, you can’t have faith without trust, you can’t have trust unless the communication is there. So having constant prayer builds trust as you build your relationship with the Lord, and when you’re asked to do something, you’re able to jump without question. Of note, I make a point to make sure my soldiers know the “why” of what I was asking them to do. However, the unpredictable, ever-changing environment of the military doesn’t always allow time and the “why” is something that has to wait until after. Ironically, the Lord’s “why” often comes after too. What is your most important message to share with others? There’s more than one way to serve. I think I’m an example of that. It’s okay to be different. The one thing that I learned that gave me peace about being different from all the sisters in my local ward was – we know that the gospel is meant to be spread to every corner of the earth. Some of those corners can’t be reached by traditional paths. Being different can help reach those corners and help spread the gospel. At A Glance Name: Jenna Hardy Age: 27 Location: Colorado Marital History: Married Children: None Occupation: Analyst Schools Attended: Bachelors in Anthropology, Minor in Military Science Languages Spoken At Home: English Favorite Hymn: Because I Have Been Given Much Interview Produced by Trina Caudle

Eileen Velazquez lived in Utah as a teenager but was not a member of the Church. When her high school friends were preparing to leave for missions, she said she would pretend to be an investigator so they could practice the lessons. Less than two years later, she was teaching the discussions herself on a mission to the Dominican Republic. Traducida al español por Alejandra Salas, Refugios Fuertes Haz clic aquí para leer la entrevista original en español Tell me a little about your childhood. I grew up in California until I was about 11 when we moved to Lehi, Utah. That was where I first interacted with any Church member. I did know one LDS girl in California but we were kids and religion isn’t really something people talk about in elementary school. I thought “What is Lehi?” and on the way to school, kids on the bus had scriptures with them. I remember saying I didn’t know who Joseph Smith was and everyone looked at me like, “What??” My sisters and I were invited to Young Women and that’s when we started going to church. They invited us for activities that weren’t really doctrinal or anything like that, but eventually, they invited us to everything. We didn’t understand a lot but we would still go, they were super nice and would pick us up. Then we stopped going after a while. Was your home religious? Did your parents have another faith they participated in? Eileen Velasquez with Family Yes, my parents are Roman Catholic. At first, they were more devout, we would go to church all the time, after a while we stopped, then went back again and I did all their ordinances. I was baptized and had First Communion and my confirmation. It kind of went up and down. They tried and they weren’t super religious, they just really wanted us to grow up and be good people. That was pretty much it. When did you join the Church? What was the pivotal time that made a difference in having a deeper interest in it? It was after graduating high school when all of my friends started to go on missions. Before graduation, many said, “I don’t know if I’ll go on a mission because it’s not really something I’m thinking about right now, I don’t really know if I want to do it.” Then suddenly, all of them wanted to go and they were sincerely going because they wanted to. I was surprised, why would you give up two years of your life to do that? I was going to sacrament meeting farewells every week and I started paying attention. I started to feel a difference. It wasn’t until one friend was going to serve and wanted to practice the lessons before leaving. I was trying to be funny and said, “You know, I’ll pretend to be an investigator.” But at that point, I had questions of my own. I felt like I had gotten a really big answer to one of my biggest questions about life and I just couldn’t ignore it after that. Do you feel like that was the start of your testimony? I had a pretty big answer with knowing what was the true church for me. I had already contemplated why were there so many churches, why was there only one Christ, and was there only one way He was trying to teach people to go. So for me, it was a really big deal because that’s one of the big pieces of my testimony to this day – what I believe is the true and only gospel. What did your parents and sisters think during this time of investigation? Did you tell them about it at that time or did you keep it to yourself? I kept it to myself until I decided to be baptized. My dad was really supportive and said I could do whatever and I’ll be with you and it will be good. My sisters just laughed and asked why I was worried about telling them since they expected me to do it anyway. My mom didn’t want me to do it because of other people. She was a little more wary about it. But ever since, she will remind me, “Make sure you’re reading your scriptures and going to church.” How did you have the discussions? It’s a funny story when I look back. I was moving into an apartment in Salt Lake with a friend but we needed another roommate because the rent was too high for just two people. I didn’t want a crazy roommate, not to sound judgmental or anything, but we wanted someone with similar values and wasn’t going to do things we weren’t okay with. Someone told me there was a room and job board at the institute building at the University of Utah, you can put an ad there and people will contact you. I went to do that on a Friday afternoon. I don’t know if this is still the same now, but usually the institute building is closed on Fridays and you can’t get in. But for some reason, it was unlocked that day and the only people in the building were two missionaries doing their weekly planning. I had never been in that building and didn’t know where the board was, I was obviously lost. I asked them for help and they eventually figured out I wasn’t a member and they gave me their number. I didn’t call them for two months. We had them over for dinner, and by then I already had the friend who taught me the lessons, like I said. And being around it for so long, I already knew what they’d cover in the missionary discussions. I knew about Joseph Smith, I knew about the Word of Wisdom, I knew about tithing, the plan of salvation; there were very few things they had to teach me. I was also going to church consistently for mission farewells. I already felt like I needed to be baptized before I contacted them, so it only took about two weeks of reviewing everything and then I got baptized. Had you read the Book of Mormon at that point? I hadn’t read the whole thing, I’d read parts of it. The one thing that really struck me during the lessons was they asked me to read the Introduction to the Book of Mormon. One of them asked me, “Who is God to you?” It was funny because I knew who God was to me but when they asked me that, I had to ponder and read a little bit. It really got me to know who God was to me. I thought that if the introduction was enough, then it was enough, and I just went for it. I didn’t really pray about it until after I was baptized. So you had a confirmation of the Book of Mormon without even reading it fully. That’s amazing. How long after you were baptized did you serve a mission? I served a mission about a year and a month and a half after I got baptized. Eileen Velasquez on Her Mission Earlier, you said you didn’t know how missionaries gave up the two years. When did your thinking change with that? I never wanted to go on one, even after I was baptized. I thought I was going to find a returned missionary husband who is going to help me with the gospel for the rest of my life, and I was okay with that. I was always talking about the Church and the gospel on campus. I made a lot of good friends that were members of the Church, we were always talking about stuff. They were always asking if I was going to go on a mission: “It feels like you’re a missionary already but you’re not.” But I just said I wasn’t going to go, I had actually promised my parents that I wouldn’t. But I received a prompting that I should serve and that I needed to go. It was really strong and I couldn’t ignore it, and I ended up going. Where did you serve? I served in the Dominican Republic Santa Domingo East mission. They speak Spanish and there are some Haitians who speak a little bit of Creole. When I first went to my mission, part of our area used to be known as the ABC Islands, so you could learn Papiamento. I almost got sent there but I’m really glad my mission president kept me in the Dominican Republic. How did your family feel about you leaving the country for 18 months? Were they still supportive or was that difficult for them? They didn’t really understand. It was harder because at that time you weren’t allowed to call every week like missionaries do now, so they said, “I can’t even call you?” We could call twice a year and could only write emails, so it was hard for them. Also just the different beliefs, they just didn’t get it. But they were supportive. Tell me a little bit about how you met your husband. He was a missionary with you? Yes. I always have to clarify. The rule is to “lock your heart” in the mission and we both promise to the end of our lives that we didn’t even think of each other in the mission. We weren’t friends or anything; the only interaction we had was we were both leaders at the same time. I didn’t get to know him until after the mission. I was accepted for an internship with the Church in Peru working with the self-reliance program. Before the mission, he had been a self-reliance manager in the Dominican Republic when the program first piloted. So we started talking about that and getting to know each other, and then we did long distance for a while, and then we got married and now we’re here in Canada! Eileen Velasquez with Her Husband Awesome. So he’s from Canada, right? Montreal? He’s actually from the Dominican Republic but he migrated here. So after living in Utah and the Dominican Republic and Canada, what do you notice are similarities and differences within the Church? I think everyone is friendly in the Church wherever you go. It’s really nice when you go to a different country and you can still expect to feel at home. I’ve been lucky because I’ve been able to speak the language everywhere I’ve been, so I’ve never felt out of place. The only thing different about Church members are the societal norms of where they’re from. Latino people are very friendly and in each country everyone was super welcoming. They want to get to know you right away, give you hugs and things like that. It’s similar in Utah – people will say hi but maybe they are not as forward. Here in Canada, it’s really fun because there are people from all over the world. We have members from Nigeria, from Ukraine, from all parts of Latin America, the Philippines, China. Everyone here is friendly and I think it’s exciting because you hear all of these languages spoken at church and it’s really fun. Especially when Church leaders are talking more about being a global Church and realizing there’s more members outside of the United States now than are in it. That’s a great opportunity. What have been some of the callings that you’ve served in? Do you have a favorite? I’ve done a lot of things. I remember in the Young Single Adults, there were a lot of different callings I participated in. I served in the Relief Society, and with temple and family history. The callings I’ve enjoyed more have been here and I think it’s because I feel like an integral part of helping the ward. In Utah, it’s so normal that everyone’s helping, everyone’s in a calling, doing different things, sometimes you don’t notice the service. But here, you can tell it’s really inspired and the contributions people make can be really impactful to a ward. I’ve been asked to serve as Primary President and I’m currently the Stake Primary Secretary. My family also serves in the YSA branch with my husband as first counselor in the branch presidency. We get a lot of involvement here and it’s really joyful to serve people. I think my favorite has been Primary President because I love kids. I was a little scared of Primary because I didn’t grow up going to Primary in the Church. My earliest exposure was Young Women. I remember thinking, “Don’t put me in Primary please, because I don’t know anything about Primary.” But I guess it’s the Lord’s funny way to say, “Well, you’re just going to learn.” And to give you an opportunity to experience that after all. That’s amazing. Since your initial conversion, have you had any experiences that have really solidified your faith and confirmed to you your choice to join the Church? There are two experiences that helped me feel this is where I need to be and where I want to be for the rest of my life. My mission was one of them. I had a really great mission president, Ahmad Corbitt, he’s currently one of the counselors in the Young Men General Presidency. He taught us key doctrines that really impacted me in the mission, and they still impact me now, like my true identity, who I am as a daughter of God. Our mission had a really big emphasis on faith in Christ, the eye of faith, keeping the end in mind, and seeing others as well as yourself with that. There were so many little moments where I felt like all the principles of the gospel were really true, and they still are. I couldn’t get that anywhere else. In Peru, we had a really great experience with a member family up in Cuzco. That really solidified my testimony of the doctrine of the family, which is something that when I get the opportunity to share in Church, I do. I truly believe in the truth of the family and the doctrine that the Lord has put in place since the beginning. Those have been two really big moments in my life, and they have led to where I am now. I met my husband through my mission, which is one of the greatest blessings in my life. There was no other way I would have met him. So I’m grateful for that. Eileen Velasquez on Her Wedding Day That’s amazing. It’s almost like you’re a modern-day pioneer in the sense of joining the Church and leaving your family’s religious beliefs. Do you have any advice if someone wants to join the Church and their family is of a different faith? I would just say to not be afraid to follow the promptings that you have received. I think it can be really nerve-wracking. I remember I was really nervous to tell my family. There have been moments when it hasn’t been easy because they are not of the same faith. Sometimes they have higher expectations of me or they don’t understand why I will do certain things. I would say, don’t be afraid of man. Have faith in the answers you’ve received. It won’t be easy because maybe there will be trials coming your way or maybe a good-hearted member of your family will try to discourage you because they think that’s the right thing to do. The answers you’ve received are real and you don’t need to ignore them. Just have faith and go with them. At A Glance Name: Eileen Velasquez Age: 26 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Marital History: Married Children: 0 Occupation: VFX (Visual Effects) Production Coordinator Convert to the Church: August 31, 2013 Schools Attended: Bachelor of Arts in Latin American Studies from BYU Languages Spoken At Home: Spoken at Home: English, Spanish, and very little French Favorite Hymn: I have so many- 129 - Where Can I Turn For Peace, 165 Abide With Me Tis Eventide, 85 How Firm a Foundation, 175 O God the Eternal Father Website or Social Media You Would Like Featured: http://@eileenbocanegra Interview produced by Darcey Williams

When the COVID-19 pandemic was declared in March 2020, full-time missionary work around the world changed immediately and dramatically. Sister missionaries, Jade Hansen, Brynn Lee, and Tressa Alexander, from the Massachusetts Boston Mission, shared their experiences of serving while under quarantine. When did you decide to serve a mission? Sister Jade Hansen SISTER HANSEN: Growing up, it was something that I always wanted to do. When I was a sophomore in high school, I started a missionary preparation class. It helped me gain a testimony of the importance of missionary work and I wanted to share the joy that the gospel has brought to me. I continued to build my relationship with God, and study the scriptures, and focus so I could be the best missionary possible. I had a lot of opportunities after high school and had to put everything on hold to serve, so I prayed a lot about the decision to go. It felt like the right thing to do. SISTER LEE: I decided to serve a mission when I was twelve years old. I remember preparing to go, always having that in my sights. As COVID started happening, people asked, “Are you still going to go on a mission?” I distinctly received the revelation that there’s no greater time to serve than now because people need to know of God’s love for them, because we are in this turmoil. I started my mission in January 2021. My call was to the Philippines Cebu Mission. I was about three weeks into the MTC when I got a call from my stake president that I’d been temporarily reassigned to Boston Massachusetts. I never thought I’d be here, I honestly thought I was going to the Philippines. I’d been in contact with missionaries there and they said it looked like things were going to open up, and I’d be able to go. Obviously, things happened and virus numbers went up. I’ve been in the Boston Mission for half my time already, but I love it here. SISTER ALEXANDER: I always wanted to go on a mission and I was really inspired by women who served missions. I was preparing to leave in spring 2021, and my call was to Boston. In Utah, it seemed like the pandemic was clearing up quickly. I know this sounds so selfish, but I was worried about going “back in time” to a lot of quarantine restrictions. I said, “Heavenly Father, I don’t really want to do a COVID mission, but I’ll do what You want me to do because this is Your work, not mine.” The desire to serve stayed consistent for me, and I thought, “Okay, maybe it’s just going to be different. But I know I need to go.” What was your Missionary Training Center experience? SISTER HANSEN: I went to the Provo MTC in December 2019. It was closed off from the world – you’re with your district members, you’re in devotionals and classes all day with just breaks for meals and exercise. It was really cool being in such a spiritual environment, surrounded by people who are working together to prepare for missions and share experiences. It was a really good support system to get over the stress and nervousness of going on a mission. I loved the MTC. It was such a pivotal moment for me that I’m sad for those who don’t get to experience it in that way. There’s the home MTC program now, which is a completely different experience. Some people do really well with it, but I need interaction with people. I’m so thankful the timing worked out because if I had left a few weeks later, I wouldn’t have had those experiences and made those friendships. Sister Brynn Lee SISTER LEE: I did the MTC online. I personally loved the home MTC, because I shared the spiritual experiences with my family. They got to be a part of that. It was nice, after being on the computer for nine or ten hours, to debrief with them and talk about everything I’d learned. There is a spirit when you have a missionary in the home. The hardest part about it was being alone as a missionary. We were living in an area where there aren’t many members of the Church, so I got interesting looks when I went out. When I visited my grandma in Spanish Fork, Utah, people got excited – “You’re a missionary! You’re probably doing the home MTC.” At home, I felt alone and vulnerable. But I loved home MTC, and I absolutely believe you can feel the Spirit over the internet. SISTER ALEXANDER: I also did the MTC all online. It was a struggle because I’m the oldest of seven kids, and we live at my grandparents’ house. The rooms are all connected unless it’s a bedroom with a door. You can hear something from anywhere in the house, so it’s really, really loud. The neighbors said I could do my MTC studying at their house, and I was there for a couple of days but it felt wrong. So many people talked about blessings that came from being in their home and sharing with their families, and I wasn’t sharing it with my family. So even though it’s really loud, I needed to be there – God wanted me to have that sacred experience of the MTC with my family and take advantage of it instead of trying to avoid it. Focusing was hard, but I was surprised at how much more I felt the Spirit at home than at the neighbor’s. Sister Tressa Alexander I had toured the MTC in Provo when they did a lot of remodeling and had an open house. I felt the Spirit stronger than I’d even felt it in the temple. I thought, “WHOA. I need to be here!” My call said that I was going to the in-person MTC in Provo, and I was so excited! I wasn’t surprised to get an email changing to home MTC, but it was still frustrating. In the dedicatory prayer of the MTC, they gave a blessing for the spirit of the MTC to go with the missionaries wherever they are. I found that fascinating. It was so cool that the Spirit I had felt so strongly in that place was also in my home. I had no idea this was possible. The Lord will go where His people are. What happened in spring 2020 for the Boston missionaries when the entire world went into the pandemic lockdown? SISTER HANSEN: In February, we thought COVID was blown out of proportion. My companion and I were visiting a member in March when we got a text from mission leadership to go get two weeks’ worth of food, right now, and they’d given us extra money. We went to the store and it was like Black Friday, but worse. We wondered what was happening. The next day, we were visiting another member when we got another text that told us to go to the apartment immediately and stay inside for two weeks. We were kind of excited, to be honest. My companion and I went to the church and got all the animated Bible videos to watch, and it was going to be a party. We weren’t allowed to see anyone in person – no members, no people we were teaching, not even other missionaries. Then that two weeks just kind of continued. It was a month, and we still couldn’t see anyone at all in person. The members weren’t allowed to bring us food, even to leave it on the porch. Church was shut down and everything was really closed. It was so weird because as missionaries, we weren’t getting a lot of information so there was a lot of wondering and speculating. It was hard that we couldn’t fulfill our purpose as missionaries. Time went on and COVID kept going. Eventually, things relaxed a little bit during the summer, with limited church meetings starting in July 2020. So four months of total lockdown. It all got shut down again during the winter. Near the end of my mission, after a full year under tight restrictions, things started to open up more. That was good. So basically, you spent your entire mission in your apartment. SISTER HANSEN: Pretty much. It was just my companion and me, that’s it. She was one of my favorite companions, thankfully. I was very glad to be in those first few weeks of isolation with someone I got along with well. For the first two months of the lockdown, we weren’t allowed to see anyone at all, including other missionaries. We did not even get the sacrament ordinance at our apartment, which was hard. The Elders could do it for themselves, but obviously, we could not. So we went a couple of months without the sacrament, which was so sad. I was really thankful when a member eventually brought us the sacrament. The work during the lockdown was all online. There was nothing in person. It was weird. It was hard because no one expected it. If I had known that’s what my mission would have been like, I think it would have been easier. But I was expecting to be out and talking to people all the time. So those first few months were especially hard. You’re with just one person, your companion, and we couldn’t see people at all. How did you do missionary work from an apartment? Sister Jade Hansen SISTER HANSEN: At first, we just called people in the area book, which is the guidebook with contact information for members and nonmembers who have previously been taught. We’d go through the area book and take two breaks in the day. That was all we did. Calling people wasn’t effective. They wouldn’t answer or they weren’t interested. We had to come up with stuff to do before the leaders figured out all the online things on Zoom and social media. We didn’t start Zoom meetings or Facebook finding or online conversations for at least a month. That was a huge step up because we could actually see people! Facebook pages were created for the areas. Every week, we made a specific video. We tried to be creative with it. We made a video that was a car wash and talked about washing off the sins of the world. Such a meme. I’d seen some funny missionary videos here and there before the mission and thought they were cool, but as a regular missionary before COVID, we didn’t have time for that. We were told not to be on social media because it was a distraction. It was definitely a different environment that leaders then wanted us to put ourselves out there and make videos to post on social media. We really had to use our creativity in coming up with video ideas that we could relate to gospel principles, and be relatable to other people. My favorite thing was making videos called “Christ is the Way.” We made a Facebook story for 26 seconds. We did a skit and read a scripture, and talked about how we can apply those things. It was really fun. It made missionary work enjoyable and we had a lot of success. We grew a lot in video-making skills and sharing our testimonies in other ways than just talking in a lesson. We were thankful when things started to open up in July 2020 and we went back to church in small group sacrament meetings (25 people or less), and we could at least go outside. We could leave stuff on members’ doorsteps, as long as there was no contact. We could have district meetings in person. We could meet members outside only at the church but not for meals or lessons, and always with masks. New England is a strict place, and the mission authorities were very conservative in their approach to the pandemic – they did not want to take any chances so they were very strict about us not seeing people. That was hard, and annoying, because in other parts of the United States, the missionaries were never restricted from visiting the members’ homes. I wish it had been consistent for everyone. My parents would video call and the missionaries were at my house. But it was over a year before we could go to any members’ homes to visit with them, even outside. I never again went inside someone’s home from the time the pandemic started until I finished my mission and went home. That was so sad. Some of my friends say that the pandemic wasn’t that bad. Well, they had contact with people through the whole thing and that support on their missions. I heard, “We went tracting today!” You what? I was frustrated that other missions kept going like nothing happened, and we were still hoping to go back to normal. I stopped reading my friends’ emails. The Church and the missionary work never fully opened again while I was still in Boston. I rely on interactions with people so that was hard for my mental health. Thankfully, I had good support back home and I knew why I was on the mission, and that helped me get through. But I did see a lot of missionaries go home, who had come out after me because it was just too much. It was so sad because it wasn’t really fair. SISTER LEE: When I first got here, everything was online. That was the norm. I expected that so it wasn’t hard to transition to it. Facebook finding, in my experience, hasn’t been very effective. You friend people that you don’t know. You think to yourself, “Would I accept this friend invite? Would I genuinely do that?” Probably not! But you try out different tactics – you say, “I’m new to the area, I’m looking for things to do, what do you know about outdoor activities,” or whatever seems to fit. Or you just go straight to the point – “I’m a missionary and we talk about Jesus Christ, would you be interested in a message?” Sometimes people respond, “Do I know you? Am I supposed to know you?” It is hard that way. Sister Brynn Lee Probably the most effective Facebook finding is prayer posts. Everybody wants prayers. You join a group page and type a quick note, “I want to pray for you, like/comment if you want me to pray for you.” We get a lot of responses from that. People are constantly saying, “Yes, I need prayers in this area.” It doesn’t matter what they believe. Everybody wants help from heaven. That opened my eyes. We meet people where they’re at. It’s really interesting to get into conversations with people about what they need, and they just open up to you because you’re willing to act and willing to pray for them. SISTER ALEXANDER: I arrived in Boston in June 2021, so I’m still new. I was really nervous about what the dynamic would be here because COVID regulations for the Church and the missionaries were a lot stricter for much longer in New England than they were in Utah. The week before I got here, the Area Seventy and the mission leadership lifted a lot of the COVID restrictions. Before, the missionaries couldn’t leave the apartment at all without masks on, and that was lifted just before I got here. It was a tender mercy for me. We wear masks indoors, but don’t outside where we can be socially distanced. What has it been like to teach discussions on video calls? SISTER HANSEN: You hoped they’d log on. A lot of people flaked on us. It was a lot harder for them to keep that commitment, even though they were also in their home and didn’t have anything to do. It’s a lot easier to ignore a phone or Zoom call than if we knocked on their door and were actually at their house. We’re all guilty of that but we were easy to brush off. It did show people’s true colors more, but it was sad and frustrating. Even when people did follow through, it was hard to teach and have a good conversation on Zoom because they tend to get distracted and it’s hard to stay focused. When you’re in someone’s home, you notice things like a family photo on the wall. It was harder to pick up on context clues and get to know them, and harder for them to feel the Spirit and give it priority. We didn’t have that in-person persuasion. On a good note, I remember someone we had been calling for a while. We were finally able to have a Zoom meeting, and we were surprised by her appearance. We had pictured her so much differently. It was great to have the resource of the video calls because not seeing someone’s face changes everything. It was really cool having somewhat of a physical interaction with her – we could see and talk to her. We could build a more personal relationship and when church started again, we were able to get her going back to church. SISTER LEE: Honestly, I think the hardest part of online lessons is many people don’t want to put on the camera. That’s hard. Just recently, we got someone to turn on the camera, and it was awesome. As we transition into more in-person things, we have to be sensitive to how people are feeling on the other side of the screen, how comfortable they are because of the virus, what is okay to talk about. We don’t want to scare them away. That’s what we’ve been trying to navigate more. Our current rule (as of August 2021) is that we can meet in person, in homes, which is very nice. Some people prefer that we wear a mask or stay outside. We do whatever that person is comfortable with. Sister Tressa Alexander SISTER ALEXANDER: People at home ask if we’re having a hard time with all the technical stuff, but it feels normal. It feels normal to do a hybrid mission with the home MTC and a mix of online and in-person. Facebook work is really interesting. When I heard missionaries were using Facebook, I was skeptical. But I feel like the Lord has so much trust in us to use technology to propel the work forward and prepare the Kingdom of God. Cars and computers and all these different things are helping to move His work forward at an accelerated pace. Facebook is just another one of these tools. I had no social media before the mission. Now I have social media and no wonder people waste so much time on this! You can scroll forever! So I have to keep a purpose in mind. Remembering our missionary purpose is important. We’re still doing Facebook work, even though we can meet in person now. My MTC trainer taught the importance of not wasting time. Someone did a test: if you have thirty minutes because a lesson drops, it is more effective to do a social media post than to knock doors because more people will see it, more people will show interest with likes or comments, and you can just start talking to them online. They can see the post at any time. The prophets and apostles have said that we’re not going back to the old way of doing things, let’s go forward and combine the best of both worlds. Someone described missionary work as being done with our right hand, but then our right hand was taken away and we had to use our left hand. Now that the right hand is coming back, we can still keep using the left. I like what you said about social media having a purpose because it definitely is easy to scroll forever. What social platforms do you use as missionaries? SISTER LEE: Right now in our mission, everyone uses Facebook, but a select few have been assigned to also use Instagram. I’ve heard that other missions use Tik-Tok, but not our mission right now. I see a mix of all ages on Facebook. I think a lot of young people join Facebook for the group activity. That’s what I’ve seen, and it seems pretty well-rounded. Were you required to be vaccinated against COVID or did mission leaders give you the option? SISTER HANSEN: The vaccines started while I was still in the mission, and the mission leaders said if we got vaccinated, we could have these certain benefits, but not have them if we did not. Toward my last few months, they said we could go to members’ homes if we were vaccinated, but if not, then no, and the district couldn’t meet in person. I hate to be the weak link and that’s what it felt like. I wasn’t a fan of that tactic – I didn’t think it was fair. But New England is very pro-vaccination. First question, people would ask straight out if we were vaccinated, and it changed their comfort level around us. It wasn’t necessarily required for missionaries, but if we didn’t, we still had restrictions. I saw a social media post that reminded me we’re so blessed to have a prophet who’s a doctor during this time. It had a list of all the things that President Nelson has done about the pandemic. That’s when I started taking things seriously. The Church has been very on top of things with a lot of precautions, especially with the vaccine – the Prophet and the Apostles got it, so that made me feel a lot better about it, seeing their example. I was able to trust more. I didn’t understand what was going on, I didn’t like what was going on, but President Nelson was giving messages of hope. That really helped me pull through some of the harder times, knowing that the Church leaders have our backs, they’re watching out for us. SISTER LEE: They said we could start taking our masks off at district council meetings if we got the shot. That’s when many missionaries did it – they wanted to take the masks off. For missionaries who were assigned to other countries and are here on reassignment, this is a must if you want to go to the country of your call. Other countries won’t let anyone in without the vaccine. I want to go to the Philippines if that opportunity comes open. I feel so present here that sometimes I forget that my call is actually to the Philippines, even though I could still get a phone call that says I’m going tomorrow. And I honestly trust our prophet. President Nelson got the vaccine. Even though I don’t know everything about it and I felt kind of pushed into it, I trust him. If he can get it, it’s not going to hurt me – I really did trust that. That was a big part of my decision. I had COVID before so I did have some crazy side effects from the vaccine but in the end, I’m grateful I got it. What missionary work patterns are being brought back from pre-COVID, and what things are being dropped? SISTER HANSEN: We took the basic things for granted, like just talking to people. When we got back to it, I’ll be honest – my social skills were off their game. I had a hard time just going up to someone and starting a conversation. We had to get back into the habit of talking with everyone. The mission president said we will never knock doors again. I was surprised. That was one of the harder things – it was an unknown, you’d knock a ton of doors and have one person answer. Tracting is like the Facebook finding of regular mission work. Toward the end of my mission, we were able to have both – in person interactions and social media messages. We had a bigger outreach. It was great when we had the hybrid schedule. We asked members to help us make videos, and they could post also. That was more relatable so there was more success with that. The social media – we created posts, sharing messages, we took that and brought it with meeting with people in person, and had a hybrid. It worked a lot better to have both. SISTER LEE: For the best of both worlds, we’ll keep doing online video lessons because travel time takes a lot of your day. Remaining productive and using your time wisely – obviously, there’s a trade-off because in-person is best and it’s going to help that friend. But be prayerful about it so you’re maximizing your time and use that opportunity. We cover a lot of area. Try to be inspired about what to do instead of just following a set routine. SISTER ALEXANDER: Our mission president said we’re not knocking doors. He said if we’re prayerfully pondering to visit this person, and they’re not there, then look at the surrounding doors. You’re in that area for a reason. God has put you there for a reason, so go and try. But knocking on every door on a street until someone opens – we’re not doing that anymore. Every day, we are to go out with a purpose, have a plan, have a motive, and work with the Spirit. I was very struck by that. I think it is more personal because I’m going forth with that intention, and my all is with that person instead of just thinking, “Okay, I’m going to the next door.” I think it’s more ministering than trying to check a box for work done. When have you made a plan and it changed? SISTER ALEXANDER: When I first got to the area, I had a strong feeling that we needed to focus on people who are less-active. We were going to a teaching appointment and it was canceled when we were driving there, so we thought we would visit some less-active members. We decided to go to one member’s house and started driving there. Then I thought, “No, we need to go to this other sister’s house,” and Sister Lee said out loud, “We should visit this other person.” We both had the same idea. We drove to her house and I was nervous – we’d never met her before, never talked to her. And here we are, randomly knocking on her door without calling first. We just asked if we could talk to her and see how she was doing. We asked about her conversion story and she shared it, and at the end, she said, “I know you were inspired to come here because I was considering whether or not to go back to church.” What do you want the entire world to know about being a missionary? SISTER HANSEN: It’s one of the hardest things you’ll do but also one of the most rewarding. I’ve been home for about three months and when I look back, I see the good things. What really makes the mission special is the connections you can make. It’s really important to look at the positives. It’s hard sometimes and not always what you expect, but the missionary work is only going to go up from here. It’s so important to bring as many people as we can to the Savior. I love that even though some of us have name tags, that’s not what makes you a missionary. A missionary is someone who invites others to come unto Christ, and all of us can be missionaries. I still share my testimony even though I’m no longer a missionary. I hope that’s something we learned from the pandemic – that we can all do missionary work, even though we don’t have a companion and an assigned area. It’s the connections we make with other people that make the difference. If we’re all of one heart and one mind in gathering Israel, we’re going to be a blessing, be a light in these darker times to people who don’t have that. SISTER LEE: The Lord’s work moves forward, and it will move forward whether I’m a part of it or not. I want to be part of it. We can all be part of it, if we choose to. I love being part of it. SISTER ALEXANDER: I believe that God’s work is moving forward. Every time something huge tries to get in the path to stop God’s work from growing, it doesn’t. There’s a scripture that says man will stretch forth his puny hand to stop the Missouri River in its course – nothing will stop God’s work. Missionary work is so different. We’re not meeting in person at all, we’re staying at home. This seems like it would take a huge toll on the work. But it hasn’t. Instead, we’re finding these new, powerful, even more effective ways than before to move God’s work forward. Have faith that this is God’s church, this is God’s work. It’s going to move forward, no matter what. At A Glance Name: Jade Hansen Age: 21 Location: MA-Boston Mission, December 2019 – June 2021; Home: Herriman, UT Occupation: Hospital Orderly Schools Attended: BYU Favorite Hymn: Lord, I Would Follow Thee Website or Social Media You Would Like Featured: http://@jade_hansen18 Name: Brynn Lee Age: 19 Location: MA-Boston Mission, January 2021 – June 2022; Home: Louisville KY Education: BYU Favorite Hymn: Come, Come, Ye Saints Name: Tressa Alexander Age: 19 Location: Location: MA-Boston Mission, June 2021 – December 2022; Home: Orem UT Education: Utah Valley University Favorite Hyman: Lead, Kindly Light Interview Produced by Trina Caudle

Jaynine Thompson was adopted as a child by her extended family, who joined the Church at about the same time. Even with knowing her adoptive parents loved her, she still struggled with feelings that she didn’t belong anywhere. The gospel and the Church have helped her know where she belongs, and she now works to extend that invitation of belonging to others. Traducida al español por Analia Hoole, Refugios Fuertes Haz clic aquí para leer la entrevista original en español Tell me about the beginning of your life. I was born in Jersey City, in the state of New Jersey in the USA, and my biological parents were teenagers. Unfortunately, my father was never part of the story and my mother struggled with health issues, used alcohol and drugs, and was affiliated with gangs. I went into the foster-care system when I was about five while they tried to find extended family to take me. Thankfully, my now-dad, who was biologically my great half-uncle, cared about my biological mother and promised he would take care of me. My now-parents took foster classes so I would be able to live with family. And right around that time, we found the Church. Jaynine Thompson What do you remember about that? My dad finding the Church is one of the funniest things to me! He would fall asleep to pay-per-view commercials, and one night he saw a commercial for a free Bible from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He called and they said, “We could have two guys deliver it within a few days or we can mail it there in a week or two.” And he said, “Have the people drop it off!” That’s when the missionaries showed up. They talked to him about the Bible and another free book, the Book of Mormon, and the lessons started. I remember feeling or seeing light around them! It was tough. We were a Hispanic household of avid coffee drinkers and there was social alcohol, but we were all baptized at that time except for my dad, who didn’t feel ready. He was a very active non-member, though, and even got a calling to help with Scouts. Around the same time, I was legally adopted by my family. Which was the bigger change for you? Joining a family or joining a church? I was more excited about my baptism than my adoption! Adoption is weird. It’s just a long day of people waiting in court to hold a paper. But I was so excited to be baptized, and I loved Elder Aston and Elder Bryner so much! I was so excited for Primary that I would run to class after sacrament meeting even though my parents hadn’t planned to stay. And then we’d stay because they felt guilty taking me out of Primary. But it didn’t last. Jersey’s a rough place to live and conflict with my biological mom was increasing. She lost her parental rights and instead of maintaining a good relationship with my dad, she became very angry. Threats and vandalism started happening, so they felt it was safest for us to move to Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania. As a kid, I didn’t realize what was happening, but as an adult I do. I loved them then, but my love for them has grown as I realized that they picked up and left for me. Unfortunately, in that move, we stopped going to church. We had a ward in Pennsylvania, of course, but it was kind of weird for us. We were fresh converts and no one really felt confident. Around 2006, my dad decided to get baptized, too, but because none of the rest of us were active, eventually he went inactive, too. When I was 18, I went through a rough time. I was in my freshman year in college and upset that I didn’t have any contact with my biological family. I started questioning my identity and lost a lot of self-worth. I started doing horribly in school and I was just very angry. I lost my belief in God. Did you still think about your birth mom and wish you could connect, or did you feel the separation was for your own good? I yearned for her, but I was angry at her for not doing her part, for not even trying to stay in touch. No cards, no ‘Happy Birthday’, nothing. I thought, if I had a child, I would do the impossible to see her. But that resentment ended up shifting to the parents who had adopted me. It led me to making some poor decisions. I started smoking marijuana and I drank alcohol. I lost the ability to care. I thought that if my own mom wouldn’t do her part to show she cared, then no one could really care about me. I just had no self-worth. I made the mistake of having pre-marital sex and my parents found out. My mom, as a very angry Hispanic mom, after doing everything she could to protect me… she just lost it. We had a huge fight and I tried to take my own life. I felt cornered. I didn’t believe in God. There had been a time when I did, when I was young, and I felt like He should have known that this young person needed Him so badly. Jaynine Thompson with Her Husband You were viewing Him like your birth parents. Yes, just like they weren’t putting forth any effort, I thought He wasn’t. I didn’t want to live. I went to a rehabilitation center and was released after being treated. One day, I was helping my mom clean the house, and we were reminiscing about how times were easier before. The doorbell rang, and there was a set of Elders outside our door. I remember thinking, that’s a coincidence, right? They started coming by often for dinners because my family always wanted to feed the missionaries. One day they got ready to share a message and I was going to go back to my room. Elder Wright said, “Look, I don’t know for sure what you’re going through, but I think I do, because my brother went through it.” Then he said, “I want you to know that you’re loved. And that you have a friend.” At that point, they had invited us probably fifteen times to come back to church, but this time I committed to go. I couldn’t drive, church was 45 minutes away, and I didn’t have church clothes. But my mom felt I needed to get back in touch with God. She bought me this terrible flowery dress that I hated SO MUCH because I did not want to wear anything cheerful and flowery. My brother Victor, who was in his twenties, would take me. He wasn’t happy, but I had committed. Everyone knew I needed it, so they were willing to sacrifice to make sure I was there. One Sunday a sister came up to us, “You’re the Villaltas, right?” When we said, “Yes,” she said, “We’ve been waiting to meet you for a long time. We’ve been praying for you and hoping you would come.” That helped my brother want to come, too. When I was 19, I was called to be a teacher in the Relief Society. There was a little group of Spanish-speaking sisters and occasionally, someone would whisper-interpret the lessons for them. I’m bilingual, and I decided I wanted to be “Dora the Explorer” and teach in English and Spanish. I didn’t have a candy bowl or table decorations, but this was what I could contribute! So the Spanish-speaking sisters went from sitting in the back, always listening, never contributing, to discussing the gospel in their own language. When I translated the Spanish comments into English, people would often say, “Wow! I never thought of it that way!” Our Relief Society went from being segregated to the sisters communicating and bearing testimony to each other. That’s so great that you found a way to change something that wasn’t working for your ward, in a way that brought the Spirit! It was the coolest experience! If you have an opportunity to teach someone in their language, do it. Don’t just hand them a written version in their language for them to read. Make it more inclusive! Around that time, I realized I could be serving a mission, but I had made so many mistakes in my life I didn’t know if I qualified, or if they’d let me go on a mission. I finally got my courage up to meet with the bishop, and he said, “We can do this!” He warned me that the adversary was going to work hard on me, and it wasn’t going to be easy. My first thought was, Bring it! Well, a few weeks later, I had a car accident and couldn’t go to church, and lost my motivation to do anything church-related. One day, my family came home from church and said there were sister missionaries in the ward and that they really wanted to meet me. I had a neck brace and felt awkward, but I went to church just so I could meet them. They were awesome! They knew I was struggling, so they asked for my help teaching in Spanish. We’d go teach a lesson, and then we’d come back and they’d teach me a lesson. They started teaching my grandma who lived with us. She was 82 and a die-hard Catholic! But those sisters were so special, and she committed to be baptized when she was 83. The sisters got in the water with her to help her with my brother and my mom because she was in a walker- it was a mega-baptism! So a lot of really cool things happened to prepare me for a mission, but there ended up being problems with my mission papers. They kept sending them back. I had to meet with LDS Family Services, and there were a lot of concerns. I’m an adopted child, I’ve had a lot of things happen in my life, and they were concerned about my being able to handle a mission. And how did you feel when the papers kept coming back? I was discouraged and started questioning. But at that point, we had been made a Spanish branch, and my branch president would not give up. He said, “You are going to serve a mission, and you are going to be the first missionary ever out of this branch!” In August 2014, I got my mission call to serve in the Arizona Scottsdale mission. And I knew that was where I needed to be. I had people waiting to hear from me. And I was going to have that cool glowy light that I remember seeing around the Elders the first time I met them. I felt like I was worth it. Why do you think that getting your mission call changed that? I think maybe the validation of knowing that God accepted my offering. I thought, well, if I have to sacrifice two years of dyeing my hair cool colors and wearing all these earrings and the clothes I want to wear, if I have to give up seeing my nieces and nephews that I love so much, and my grandmother, just so that you know that I am really trying, then I am willing to do it. So, when I got that call, I felt like maybe He had accepted the offering, and that He accepted me and forgave me. But I still had months to prepare, and more trials came. I butted heads with my parents all the time and every time we had an argument, I decided I couldn’t go on a mission. Sometimes I felt like I was arguing with the wind, with the adversary, asking why so many hard things were happening. I got into such a bad argument with my parents that I ended up calling the branch president because I didn’t have anywhere else to go. At moments like this, I always felt, I don’t have anyone. My branch president and his wife and my parents agreed that I would stay with them. A week turned into a month and no one from my family reached out to me. Four days before I left, I reconnected with my parents and soothed hurt feelings. So I was home the last few nights before my mission. I had missed them so much that I almost didn’t want to get on the plane! I just needed that. I needed them. Jaynine Meeting Her Family at the Gilbert Temple for Sealing When I got to the MTC, my parents wrote me a letter apologizing for their faults and letting me know how much they supported me and my mission. When I called my parents at the end of the MTC, they told me they were going to the temple to be sealed, and my grandma and my brother were going as well! I just started crying! I couldn’t wait to finish my mission so we could all be sealed together. During my first interview with my mission president, I told him my parents were getting sealed, and I would be sealed with them when I finished my mission. I guess that stuck with him, because at Christmas he said, “Sister Villalta, for you to be a better missionary and teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, Sister Sweeney and I felt like we should give you a Christmas present and allow you, if your parents are willing, to get sealed right away.” They arranged for us to get sealed in the Gilbert Arizona temple! My family drove down and I remember seeing the Pennsylvania license plates in the parking lot and thinking, “It’s happening!” I remember closing my eyes, sobbing, and seeing nothing but pure brilliance. I was born to a different woman but I knew that this was my spiritual family. I’d imagine there are a lot of people who don’t feel like their families fit the mold of what a family ought to look like. How did this journey shape what family means to you? It’s something so profound. You have no idea how much they mean to me because they chose me. I think when people adopt kids, you choose them, they choose you, and that bond is stronger than blood or a document. When we chose to be sealed, I felt that we were celestial beings. And that can come about even if you don’t look like what you think a typical family should look like, because we definitely didn’t. My parents had a family of four. They didn’t need anyone else. They chose to take me in. And because of everything I’ve been through, I’ve spent a lot of time wondering about my purpose in life. Sometimes I ask God, “Where do you want me to be? Where am I supposed to be?” Because I would feel disconnected. I used to think I wasn’t part of their original plan, but now I wonder if maybe I was! I wonder if, before this life, we chose our family, and maybe we didn’t choose all the circumstances of getting together, but maybe we chose that at some point we would be present in each other’s lives, and we would help each other. My family has had our bumps, but I love them soooo much. My grandmother passed away a few months after I returned from my mission. That was a really hard time. I started dating my husband, Paden, who I had served with on my mission. So we were Facetiming every night because I was in Pennsylvania and he was in Utah. He kept me in tune with the Spirit. We got engaged and started planning, and two months before our wedding I got a message that my biological parents were looking for me. I was almost 24, and suddenly after 14 years, you’re looking for me!? I had all those old identity issues again. All of my past came up and I didn’t know how to process it. I was trying to plan for this beautiful family-centered wedding day, and I had people I didn’t know claiming me as their child! I felt settled and had a mom and dad now, so I just focused on having the beautiful wedding day and sealing that we did. Jaynine Thompson with Her Husband and Parents Once I felt up to it, I told my biological father I wasn’t ready to know him. But I felt bad for my biological mom. She had been severely impacted by her life choices and I decided that, though I couldn’t change anything about her life, I could be present. I finally approached it as a missionary: look at her as a Child of God, put your own feelings aside, don’t be angry. I went from feeling angry to feeling bad because I don’t think anyone properly cared for her. All the drugs and alcohol had really affected her life and she wasn’t really literate. When Paden and I went to visit family in Pennsylvania in 2019, I told him I thought I needed to finally face her. Why do you think that was? Ironically, I kind of wanted my adopted mom to know I loved her. I was sealed to her. I chose her. And that she didn’t need to be hurt by any contact with my birth mom. I also decided I needed to see for myself what my birth mom’s circumstances were. I thought I would handle meeting her very missionary-esque, “Hello, nice to meet you…” Thank goodness Paden was with me, because I got to the gate of the house and she opened the door, and suddenly I felt again like I was that little five-year-old girl being sent away to foster care. She was crying, and we hugged each other, and the whole time, you know how you smile so hard sometimes that the muscles in your face hurt? I could not stop smiling the whole time. Paden noticed the two of us were wearing the same outfit — jeans shorts, sandals, flowery shirt, and a tight bun. It was so weird because I really did look like her. I went from you gave birth to me and I’m angry, to I feel charitable towards you, to I have more of a connection with you than I thought. I think I had been downplaying it to protect myself and my emotions. The visit helped me because there had been some wounds still eating at me. But now my adopted mom accepted that I am hers forever and it helped me cement my testimony even more. How? I think the whole time I was just mad, not just at my birth mom but at Heavenly Father. I think that there’s an idea that children in difficult family situations, children that go into foster care, those who have had bad things happen to them in childhood can’t be repaired. I thought that it was never going to get better, but He repaired it all. When everything came full circle, He softened everyone’s heart. Everything I was afraid of having to fix, He handled it. Jaynine Thompson with Her Husband Tell me what your cultural and racial heritage means to you. I feel strongly about that. I’m mostly Puerto Rican and part Salvadoran. My adopted mom is full Puerto Rican and my father is full Salvadoran. My adopted parents have dark skin. And, boy, is culture important in our family! It was cemented from what we ate every day to how we celebrated holidays to the way we conducted ourselves. It is cool that I can live my culture and also live the gospel and they actually work very well together. Why is it important that we know that? Why is it important for us to have the perspectives of someone who is of a different race, language, and/or culture than us? Why was it important for your English-speaking sisters to hear the sisters from other countries discussing the gospel in Spanish? First, those Spanish-speaking sisters sitting in the back of the Relief Society room got a chopped-up, watered-down version of the gospel. Interpreting is hard – you end up chopping up the language. It’s true you can learn from the Spirit, but the Spirit really confirms what is being said, so if what is being said isn’t understandable, I think the Spirit can have a harder time testifying. And some of those sisters were recent converts, so they didn’t have a base of knowledge yet. Second, make sure people feel like they belong! There’s the idea of keeping the circle open. We have to show we believe that women who have been in the Church for generations can still learn from new converts, or at least have something brought to their remembrance. People say all the time they learn from the Primary kids. How is that different from a new convert!? Because it wasn’t just the Spanish-speaking sisters getting more out of those classes. Oh no, the English-speaking sisters would tell me they loved the classes. There was an African-American sister who played piano but she never participated in the discussion. One day, as I was going back and forth translating, she participated! She told me that when I was teaching, it made her want to participate. I think, unconsciously, seeing someone who looks like you can trigger the idea that you belong. My Relief Society president started inviting other Spanish-speaking sisters to teach and I translated. They’d seen me do it so now they knew it was a possibility. I think we have to try and keep the circle open. I’m grateful for the changes the church tries to make, to keep us from feeling like a closed circle. Anything else you’d like to share? I feel like I’ve been given so many opportunities to share my testimony because of my mission, but you keep adding more and more to it and it cements what you already thought was a good testimony. And I know it might be too early to say, but I don’t think I could ever be done with this church. I know too much the power of Heavenly Father and what He has done for me. The gospel has literally saved me. At A Glance Name: Jaynine Thompson Age: 29 Location: Logan, Utah Marital History: Married Occupation: Case manager for Homeless & Low Income families Convert to the Church: January 12, 2002 Schools Attended: East Stroudsburg University and Utah State University Languages Spoken At Home: English and Spanish Favorite Hymn: Redeemer of Israel Interview produced by Jenny Willmore

Melinda W. Brown has worked with multiple nonprofit organizations focused on women’s issues and for a time, was also seeking guidance on how to resolve a family conflict. Her personal and public lives combined into a single memorable spiritual experience that led to three years of study and writing that became the book Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance. Tell me about yourself. Melinda W. Brown I grew up in two places: Belmont, Massachusetts, and Palo Alto, California. It was almost split time – about nine years in each, but it was back and forth. My dad was a professor of business at Stanford and Harvard Universities. He was playing the tenure game, so he went back and forth several times between the two to make sure that he was taking good care of his family. My younger siblings claim Boston as their hometown, but my older sister and I tend to claim California because we were teenagers there. I love both places. Both places molded me into who I am, because of the amazing expansive-mind type of people we interacted with at those meccas of education and learning. The list of mentors is long in the twenty-year window from 1970 to 1990. All the great brains and hearts and minds that passed through those places – I went to Sunday School with them or had them as seminary teachers. They really did make me who I am. The other piece that really shaped me was my father’s profession as a professor and as a business mind. In addition to teaching, he did loads of consulting with businesses and companies. He completely embodied a building and teaching mindset – that is who he is. His profession shaped our dinner conversations for my entire life. We always talked about things related to his students or the university or the latest factory he had visited, things he was figuring out and writing about. That’s in my blood – nature and nurture. It was both. That sounds like amazing groundwork for your own college education. When I got to BYU, I started in a math space, then moved to history, and ultimately landed on economics because I’d found my people. This is how my brain works, this is how I think, this is the thing that feels right at home. I was married halfway through my undergraduate time and had our first child in September of my senior year. I was determined to walk through that graduation line with her on my hip, at nine months old, which I did. Economics made that possible because it was something that came naturally to me. I loved it enough to do the hard work of plowing through school with a baby, who was not a good sleeper. Melinda with Her Husband From there, I was committed to supporting my husband through his medical training. We jointly made some important hard decisions about where that would take place so I could be home with our children. First and foremost, I really yearned for motherhood and for those experiences and blessings in my life. I was grateful to have four children. We have a daughter and a son, then a gap, and two more daughters about six years later. They are the joy of my life. While I didn’t necessarily practice in the field of economics during that time, I used my education every single day in my home, teaching my children. I also had opportunities for side gigs that were really fun for me. Life at home is a lot of work but a fair bit of mundane, so those side gigs helped keep things interesting. Now that my children are grown, I’ve been digging into so many different things. I would really like to go back to college and get another degree. I’m getting a little older – I’m 51 – I can’t do dozens of degrees, so I’d better figure out which one I really want to do. There’s so much value in a multi-disciplinary approach. I was just reading the excellent book, Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World, by David Epstein. He did a great forum for BYU in January 2021 – he has so many great insights about how crucial it is that we experience broadly to be able to think creatively about current problems. That is a great perspective for our day. Some of the complex problems we are wrestling with are going to require the greatest creativity this planet has ever had. I’ve been really inspired by the idea that the more broadly we learn and expose ourselves to different solutions that have worked throughout history, in different places and cultures, little bits of that learning will come to our minds as we search for solutions to really thorny problems, of which we have many. Which thorny problems have you decided to work on? I’ve had several experiences with great organizations such as Fight the New Drug, Big Ocean Women, Days for Girls, and Better Days 2020. The common thread is women’s issues. I got so deep into women’s issues that I started to really struggle with just how thorny those problems are. How are we STILL, in many places around the world, some not very far from my home, having issues that are plaguing women? We look back millennia and read the history, and of course, we expect to see hard things then. That seems to make sense. But still? Today? In the twenty-first century? This is really disheartening. I don’t mean to paint with too broad a brush but so much abuse and so many struggles come from the hands of men, and some cultural traditions are so hurtful and harmful, and the repercussions are not just for women but also for children. It was in that space that I felt like surely, we could do more. We have to do more. There’s just so much, and everybody should be doing something. My parents have created a family foundation and to prepare for it, I attended an intensive course on nonprofit management at Duke University with my daughter-in-law, Allie. That has been a great education. Most recently, I’ve worked with the Elizabeth Smart Foundation and I’m currently on her board. For several years, I’ve worked with Fight the New Drug because I feel that they do great work in effective ways on one of the thorniest issues that I believe is at the core of a lot of these problems, which is pornography and the objectification of women. That then led me into some very deep research trying to figure out our faith’s doctrine about Eve, about women in general, about the relationship between men and women, about our Heavenly Parents. All of this study came from that nonprofit work. Eve and Adam When I began the study that became the book, Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance, I really thought it would be in a nondenominational sort of vein, that it would just inform my humanitarian and philanthropic work, to figure out which organizations I wanted to work with, that sort of thing. I did not start with the intention to publish a church book. Surprisingly, I discovered that the phrase from the Book of Mormon about “trying the virtue of the word of God” has really rung true (Alma 31:5). I know this is different for everyone, and thank heavens we’re all filling different roles because it’s much more effective that way. But personally, my space has shifted a bit to helping members of our church understand our faith and doctrinal beliefs well enough to apply them better, model them better, teach them better to the younger generations. I hope that’s one way I can leverage my passion for this topic to make a difference and facilitate change. Why Eve and not one of the other scriptural women? About five years ago, I had so much angst about women’s issues around the world and the things they struggle with. I felt so inadequate to make a difference, though I also felt this huge burden that I should make a difference because of how richly blessed I’ve been. I really needed to do something. I was having that whole existential crisis. Concurrently, a family matter came up that was equally heart-wrenching, but for very different reasons. There’s so much love and complexity in a large family – we were trying to preserve and strengthen relationships, but there were some conflicting issues at play. We were having a bit of a struggle to navigate a rough patch through these relationships. Mother of All Living by Caitlin Connolly It was a day when the family matter weighed heavily on my heart. I was in my office looking at a painting that my husband had just given me for Christmas – “Mother of All Living” by Caitlin Connolly. Doug had chosen it for me because it was scriptural and feminine and temple-related. I’d just gotten off the phone from a hard conversation. In some desperation and with tears, I looked at this painting, which I loved and really appreciated, and I said out loud, “Eve, can you help me?” I had a very, very profound spiritual experience as if she leaned out of that frame and said, “Yes, I thought you’d never ask.” It was unique enough – I don’t usually hear voices like that, that’s not how the Spirit has typically spoken to me – that wow, it knocked some sense into me. I was instantly done crying. What does that mean? How could Eve help me with this? This is not a Biblical sort of situation we’re in. What could her little story from a couple of chapters and a few scattered verses do for this real-life, real-hard experience we’re in the middle of? Quickly, I got on the computer and figured out the right things to start reading, and eventually dove into everything I could find to read about her. For the immediate family crisis, within twenty-four hours, I felt like I had the answer presented to me by Eve. It had everything to do with: life is all about hard choices and about opposition. I’ve come to recognize that this notion of “opposition in all things” is so much more than just “hard stuff.” It’s about tension and pressure and balance and harmony. It is a grand scope of what has to happen for us to learn well and effectively through the mortal experience. For the family crisis, I took my thoughts to my parents the next day and said, “Maybe you won’t see the connections that I’ve found in Eve and Adam’s story, but I think this holds our answer of a way through this – by putting love first, by understanding that there are just some things that aren’t going to feel perfect all the time, we can all handle them a little bit differently, and we can put our relationships at the forefront. We can put our arms around each other for the greater good of the big family.” Right away, things started to shift. As I shared those feelings about Eve and Adam, it really resonated with the women – my mother, my sisters, my sisters-in-law. Sometimes it took additional discussions with the men to help them recognize how we could do this effectively. Everybody got on board quickly and it turned into the sweetest time for our family. This experience has borne so much beautiful fruit because we were interested in following Eve’s example of embracing the hard thing for the sake of love and family and with a very long-term perspective. We’re playing the long game. And then this study evolved into an actual book. What was the transition? When I started the book research, it didn’t start out as “book” research. It was just research that later started to feel like the makings of a book. For the first year, it was just to satisfy my own searching and wrestling and struggling to figure out how all the pieces fit together and how this could make sense. When I began the writing process, I leaned pretty heavily on some close friends and relatives who I really trusted with doctrinal issues as well as creative pursuits, as beta readers and pre-editors. The two at the forefront were Candace, my third daughter, and Allie, my daughter-in-law (married to my son). My parents were phenomenally helpful in that role as well, as was my husband. Brave.Like.Eve Instagram Team I decided to finish the manuscript before I pursued any sort of publishing. At that point, Allie and Candace were the most critical. They were the bravest at telling me what I needed to hear but maybe didn’t want to. Candace had a particular knack for saying, “Mom, at some point you’re going to have to stop doing research and start writing. I think you’ve crossed a line that you’re now being selfish not putting this out there, what you’ve found. A year from now, you would have written a different book, and that’s okay. The next person can write that book. Get this one out so it’s a stepping stone to more information.” She was crucial in my pulling the trigger because maybe I’d still be researching and wouldn’t have even picked up the pen at this point if she hadn’t pushed me. Allie was such a great voice to the people in the space of young adults – she is a mother of two small children, recently finished graduate work, and is incredibly intelligent and aware of what is happening in the world among her peers. That’s the group that I was most focused on writing to. So she was a great sounding board to make sure that I was finding the right language to speak to that audience. Language matters. That was so huge to me through the whole process. In the language of the scriptures, there’s so much that we assume. We cross cultural bridges without even realizing they exist as we study and read scripture, and then add the modern experience of ongoing scripture. I’m getting a new idea of what the Tower of Babel may have really been about because I feel that we’re in a time with so many different communication styles and languages between even the people we think we’re closest to. We are just not speaking the same language. We’ve got to find a way to have our thoughts and feelings and emotions not confounded based on our lack of vocabulary similarities. I believe strongly in “Meet me in the middle.” This is my motto that I remind myself of every day. I want to stop with the extremes, come in where we can put our arms around each other, put our heads together, listen, feel each other’s feelings, and then find solutions based on our common ground. We have so much more common ground than we think we do. But if we’re not speaking the same language, that pushes us to the extremes, and it’s a terrible place to be. I think we all feel that right now. It’s a very uncomfortable, awful place to be, and language matters. We’ve got to develop better communication skills so we can listen better and learn better from each other. Emotion has clouded everything so much recently that people are literally incoherent and just making sounds, not saying words. The phrase “confounded language” explains so much today! Good call! That’s what it feels like to me. So to go back, I was able to take the manuscript to Deseret Book and they were excited about it. But it was a long process of publishing – sixteen months from the date of the first visit until the day the book was released, right at the beginning of lockdown in COVID, which was not great timing. It was important to them that I create a social media presence – that was very foreign to me and wasn’t something I was looking forward to. I found professional help to get it off the ground but quickly realized it was something I didn’t feel capable or interested in doing by myself. I thought I would do a better job if I had different voices and insights with me and realized that Candace and Allie were the perfect people to do that with. Our Instagram is @brave.like.eve. It has been the sweetest experience to do that together. We work on it jointly even though we live in different places. We’ve got some great systems in place through all the various technologies at our disposal. It provides a beautiful opportunity to talk and think and ponder together about spiritual things that often doesn’t happen in the rush of the world between three women in different stages of life, all very busy. But it’s just the right thing for us. We try to really focus on the idea of faithful courage – it’s all about doing the brave thing. We post three times a week with one insight about that week’s Come Follow Me materials, another about what we’ve found in our readings or experiences that might resonate with our community, and a Sunday post always focused on the Savior. We use a lot of outstanding art and try to feature LDS artists especially, but also artists from everywhere and lots of different traditions and time periods. We make sure that we’ve chosen our words carefully, and we try to be very inclusive and thoughtful and sensitive to how other people might feel as they read it. As it turns out, it’s blessing lots of additional people’s lives – women and men – we’re enormously grateful because it’s blessed us immensely. I was going to ask what you’ve done in your personal life to incorporate what you’ve learned about Eve through the book research, but I see now that’s a backward question, because your life is what triggered the book research in the first place. So you’re working on women’s issues with your family’s foundation, the book, the Instagram account. What’s next? Melinda's Family I’ve spent the past year and a half since the book came out doing speaking events, writing articles for different outlets, little things that I’ve just felt like I’ve needed to do to ride that wave. My friends at Deseret Book have asked what project might come next. I’ve been thinking about that and want to be sure I don’t jump into something that I’m not so totally passionate about that I could spend five years on it. That’s what a good book takes, in my opinion. It’s a lot of work. Right now, one of the great joys of my life is that my husband and I serve in one of the BYU campus wards with pre-mission freshmen, and I’m teaching Temple Prep to fifty to sixty kids a semester. It is sheer delight for me. It feels like such a crowning blessing to the last decade of all these things we’ve just talked about. There’s no topic I’d rather think about and expound on and share ideas about, and especially with the rising generation. I put a lot of thought every day and every week into that. At least for now, I feel like that’s my current mission. I would love to be a full-time missionary in that vein – teaching young adults and sharing thoughts and ideas with them, really working to un-confound our languages, reframing things in a way that is more effective in helping them understand the bigger picture of what mortality and the gospel of Jesus Christ are about. It would be such a shame to lose the thread because we’re speaking different languages. The vast majority of the temple experience is hidden in plain sight throughout the scriptures and throughout history. There are lots of ways to prepare people well for that experience, talking more openly than we have in the past. Elder Bednar said in General Conference that we should talk about everything we can talk about, so people are prepared for it. A lot of what I share with the students is from my own experiences and my own study and research. And it all goes back to when Eve “talked” to you from a painting. Five years later, I can see just how hugely life-changing that experience was. Since that time, I’ve had other family crises and hard things. Always, I take it back to that basic message that we learn from Eve’s example in the scriptures: do the brave thing with faithful courage. In her case, that was facilitated by her relationship with our Savior, who I believe was in the Garden of Eden with her. In a powerful way, not physically but spiritually, I believe He left the Garden with her and Adam. Eve can serve as a proxy for us, as a representative of us, and mentor to us. We all made very similar choices in our premortal existence to embrace mortality and do the hard thing with a very long-game perspective in mind, and with the understanding that we could trust our Savior, that He could and would do what He said He would do for us to make it feasible, that it could work out and all be for our good and benefit. Here we are in the middle of it. It’s working, and we just keep following Eve’s courage. ————————- Melinda W. Brown will be presenting an online fireside with the LDS Women Project on Tuesday, November 9 at 6:30 pm MTN/8:30 pm EST. She will be discussing her book, Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance and taking questions, and there will be a drawing give-away to receive a copy of the book. Register here to receive the Zoom link. At A Glance Name: Melinda W. Brown Age: 51 Location: Provo, Utah Marital History: Married, 31 years Children: 4 Occupation: Writer, Researcher, Public Speaker Convert to the Church: Born in the church Schools Attended: B.S. in Economics from BYU, 1992 Languages Spoken At Home: English Favorite Hymn: Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing Website or Social Media You Would Like Featured: https://www.instagram.com/brave.like.eve/?hl=en Interview Produced by Trina Caudle

Mary Lythgoe Bradford was the editor of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought from 1976 to 1982. She had previously taught English and writing at the University of Utah, Brigham Young University, American University in Washington D.C., and as a contract instructor for various federal government agencies. She is also an award-winning author and poet. This interview is a distillation of several hours of an oral history created by Mary’s children and their spouses in 2015 when they gathered to celebrate her 85th birthday. Mary Bradford turned 91 on October 24, 2021, just before the publication of this piece. The interview was produced for the LDSWP by her granddaughter. What do you remember most about your childhood and your parents? My father was such a great dad. I remember when I was about eight years old, Mother had gone on a trip, so I was home by myself. I was listening for Dad to come home in the ‘28 Chev. I could hear his car way up the road, half a mile away. He’d always stop and pick up ice cream cones on his way home. He’d hold them in one hand—three of them—and drive with one hand, ice cream dripping down the other. Dad was always there. Whenever I needed a ride, I just had to call Dad. He’d come and get me wherever I was. He would do anything for me. Very sweet on his daughters. I think I was lucky because I had such a loving home. Dad thought my brother Dennis was “doing something” because he worked for the newspaper. Dad loved to read the newspaper. He only went to sixth grade, so he didn’t read much. But Mother had a lot of books in the house, so I loved to read. I sort of taught myself when I was about five years old. Mother loved the classics. Her copy of Jane Eyre was signed by her grandmother who came across the plains. Do you have a favorite book? Well, Gone with the Wind changed my life. I read it all the time. In the summertime, I’d always get a big old stack of books from the library. I have that copy of Little Women my mother gave me. Loved it. In fact, I put on a whole backyard production of it for the neighbor kids. Of course, I played Jo. I got an award for reading the most difficult book in the ninth grade: Les Miserables. How influential has the Book of Mormon been for you? I read the Book of Mormon for the first time when I was just a kid. I’ve read it several times, but not recently. I was very religious as a kid. I read all the Church books. My boyfriend down the street was worried about me. He caught me reading all these Church books on my front porch and he decided to bring me something he thought I should be reading, like Lad the Dog. He thought I was “too churchy.” He was our bishop’s son! I did love reading and learning about the gospel. I would stand and bear my testimony on a minute’s notice. One time as only a teenager, I got up and called the ward out for gossiping! Mary was the first person in her family to graduate from college and earned her bachelor’s and master’s degrees from the University of Utah from 1949-1955. Mary reflected on being in her 20s: I hoped to be a writer. I hoped to marry a good man in the temple. I wanted to have kids. But I was in no hurry. Mary L. Bradford Graduation Virginia Sorensen was my [master’s] thesis subject at the U. [Virginia Sorensen was a Latter-day Saint novelist who received the Newbery medal for children’s literature in 1957.] Bill Mulder was my professor. He knew her personally and thought I should write about her. I first thought I would like to do a thesis of original poetry, and he didn’t think that was very good. He said, “Why don’t you write about a publishing Mormon author?” So I got acquainted with Virginia. I could interview her, get to know her and her family. It was a great subject. It lasted my whole life. I did finish my master’s thesis, and I wanted to write a book on Virginia. I have all the pieces, but I made a mistake. I thought I needed help and I decided two people could help me. Well, I didn’t do it, they didn’t do it. It’s too late now. Should have just done it myself. I don’t know why I didn’t. I’d been studying Virginia my whole life. I could sit down right now and do it if I had the energy. Mary met her husband, Charles “Chick” Henry Bradford, at the University of Utah but they did not marry until 1957. Mary was 26. You should have seen Chick on the campus. He was always with some girl. He dated a lot of wonderful women. One night we were at a fireside, and I was sitting next to him. Someone asked what we were going to do in the fall, and he said he was going to teach at BYU, and I said, “I’m going to BYU with Chick!” I loved his sense of humor. He could see the humor in anything. He had this angelic face. Returned missionary, been to Harvard, working on a dissertation. And we had the same value system. We got down to BYU and my friend Barbara decided that we should get together –Chick and me. So, Barbara started calling me up and saying, “Get a ride to Salt Lake with Chick,” because I liked to go home on the weekends. I decided to call him, and we spent a whole evening talking. A couple of weeks later, Barbara called and said, “I’m sorry, Chick just got engaged.” I said fine. A month later she called and said, “Call Chick for a ride.” I asked why and she said, “Well, they broke up.” So he was engaged before, but so was I! We started dating after that and decided to do what Lowell Bennion suggested – have a secret engagement. Get used to the idea before you let anyone into it. [Lowell Bennion founded the Institute of Religion at the University of Utah, and authored several books about the Church.] Mary and Chick Bradford Wedding When Chick proposed to me, we were driving down Main Street and he said, “I see no reason why we shouldn’t get married.” I said, “I don’t either!” Then he didn’t say anything about it for a couple of weeks. I thought maybe I misunderstood. Then we went up to Emigration Canyon, and he showed me this little box with a ring and he slammed it shut and kept talking. I said, “Did you mean for me to have that?” He said, “Oh yeah.” This was the 4th of July so he lost his independence on Independence Day. My father had kind of a woman’s intuition, more than Mother. When I started dating Chick, Dad started staying up waiting for me, which he hadn’t done for years. I said, “Why are you up, Dad?” And he said, “Because I think this is it. I think he’s it.” Mother was worried about it because he was crippled. [Chick had Facioscapulohumeral Muscular Dystrophy, a genetic disorder that causes progressive muscle degeneration, atrophy, and weakness.] She got over it once she knew him better. But Dad had a real knack. After we were married, we moved to Arlington, Virginia. That ward was wonderful with a lot of couples like us, same age. We’d all left our families behind in Utah, so we depended on each other. It was great. Chick and I had a dream of building a home in Provo. We even owned a lot in Indian Hills. We thought we’d stay three years in DC and go back and build a house. I got homesick enough that we did go back to Utah. But then Senator Wallace Bennett called and said we have a great new job for you, so we went back to DC. I realized we loved it in DC and we didn’t want to go back to Utah anymore. I figured out how to have a teaching career while we had kids. I taught writing classes and some speech classes to accountants from the GAO (Government Accountability Office). The head guy there was in our ward and he decided they should write better reports, so he had me come up and tell him what course I would do. I designed it by looking at some reports. In the class, I pointed out their report troubles and what to do with them. One of the guys leaned in and said, “Mrs. Bradford, if there’s anything you need to know, I can help you.” I thought, “Oh, I’ve found a writer!” I thought it was a comedic thing. He apparently didn’t want me giving courses and I think he was going for intimidation. Mary and Chick Bradford and Their Young Family I did it for about twelve years. Started with the GAO and other agencies came along — Interstate Commerce Commission, American University. They thought it would be good to catch students going into government and teach them how to write. We had weekend courses to write memos, reports, proposals… and I used poetry. I used the Jabberwocky: “T’was brillig, and the slithy toves did gire and gimble in the wabe!” I used that to talk about sentence structure. The word choices are something else, but you have to have a subject, verb, object, and stuff. You can use nonsense words in your writing and still get along. Of course, their sentence structure was like a freight train! They had to go back and learn how to write a decent sentence. I went around the country as a government consultant to teach classes. They were usually three- or four-day seminars. It was a good part-time job. I could tell them I needed to be home with the kids and be there when they got home from school. Can’t do that now. They hadn’t had this type of consultant before, and they let me do what I wanted. When I went out of town, I would hire a Mormon couple to stay with the kids. Chick used to call me in the daytime and say, “What are you doing?” And I’d say, “What do you mean, what am I doing?” So one time I said, “Why don’t you stay with the kids for the weekend?” I called him while I was away and he’d been home with the kids, and he said, “Do you know what I had to do today?!” I said, “Yes, I do!” He never called and asked what I was doing again. I still had a dream of being a writer, but I didn’t know how that would look. Then, in my forties, I took over as editor of Dialogue. [Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought was the first independent journal in Mormon Studies. The journal has not shied away from publications on some of the difficult and controversial issues in Latter-day Saint history and doctrine, which made it somewhat controversial to more orthodox members. However, the editorial boards and contributing authors have been mainly scholars and writers who are actively participating members of the Church.] I’d always loved Dialogue but I never expected to be editor. Gene England had founded Dialogue and put me on his staff – I knew Gene in college. He was at the U, and the summer before my marriage, I had lunch with him and his wife on campus and he told me the idea he had for a journal. I said, “Well, find me and put me on staff and do it.” And of course, we moved to Washington not long after that and I heard that he was starting this journal, so I called him up and asked to be on the staff. And that certainly led to a lot of wonderful experiences. Then in 1976, Bob Rees said he needed to pass it on to me. I took Chick out to dinner and said if he didn’t want me to do it, I wouldn’t. He refused to say anything. “It’s up to you, I’ll support you,” he said. But I knew it was going to be a big hassle because he was the bishop of the Arlington Ward and the bishopric business was upstairs. Dialogue was downstairs. Our kids said, “The Celestial Kingdom was upstairs, and the Terrestrial Kingdom—Dialogue—was downstairs .” When we had the book signing for one of my books out in Utah, the publishers asked my son Scott some questions about living with me, the bishopric, and Dialogue in the same house. Scott said, “My parents loved each other, so it was fine.” I remember that. What are your favorite Dialogue issues and why? When we first got it, Dialogue was almost gone because it didn’t have any subscribers. So we stayed up all night typing it up, sent out a little brochure, and people came back. So I think we can be credited with saving it. I thought we were transitional. We’d just keep it going until somebody would come along to really take it over. We ended up with a shelf of very good issues that people worked hard on and I’m really proud of. It was a good crew. We worked with them the whole time and didn’t lose anybody. Dialogue Pink Issue We did the red one on Nauvoo – the history of the Church there, as well as the restoration of the historic sites in the 1960s. It’s one of my favorites. Followed up with a pink issue on women. One section was photos of Mormon women doing things they aren’t usually known for, like Didi Willis remodeling her house. Then we had one woman with her dance concerts. We concentrated a lot on women in the arts, which I liked. We had a lot of good stuff in there. And the Sonia Johnson issue. [Sonia Johnson was excommunicated for her vocal political support of the Equal Rights Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.] I interviewed her. I went to her house and it looked like mine – same color scheme, same stuff on the fridge, you know. She seemed like somebody I knew from way back. I think she was in a study group with me at one point. One time, she asked, “Why did the Lord decide that women couldn’t speak in church?” And I said, “What makes you think the Lord decided this?” She had a really black and white mind, thought the Lord had done it. So when the Dialogue issue came out, I heard that several of her followers subscribed who hadn’t before. But she didn’t like it because I emphasized her husband. She didn’t want him in it, but she followed her husband around the world with his job and had finally had enough. I thought that was important to the story. I tried to maintain a neutral voice as an editor. People thought I had joined “Mormons for ERA” because I was friends with a lot of them. I had friends on both sides of the issue. I also interviewed the bishop who excommunicated Sonia Johnson, but he wouldn’t let me publish it. He said he’d like to do it but had to find out if “they” would let him do. So that’s when we knew for sure that he wasn’t offering any information. There was the sex issue. The half-eaten apple [on the cover] was Greg Prince’s idea. I want all my grandchildren to read the Black issue, of course. I wasn’t the editor, but I had a lot to do with it because I knew Lester Bush and Larry Bush. They were in the ward next to ours and knew about my work with Dialogue before I was the editor, so they came to talk to me about it. They had this bound copy of research on Black people and wanted me and my brother Dennis Lythgoe to write it up and publish it in Dialogue. I decided that Lester would make a better co-editor. He was great. His research skills were amazing. I looked it over and said, “Why don’t you do it? I’ll see that it gets in.” So that’s what we did and it was really ground-breaking. Larry and I did some articles together for the Ensign for the opening of the DC temple and one on the history of Mormons in Washington. But they didn’t want to publish an article by a man and a woman who weren’t married to each other. So they divided it up and put his name on part and my name on the other. When we were working on the article, I talked to the editor of the Ensign and asked him about publishing Dialogue people in the Ensign and he said it’s okay if you’re not the editor. I had just signed on to take it over! So we published in the Ensign just before I took over Dialogue. Dialogue was a great arrangement for me. I loved working on it while we raised our kids. They were growing up and leaving the nest. I stopped working on Dialogue in 1982 at age 52. I had other books I wanted to work on. My next project was Mormon Women Speak in 1983, after Dialogue. I started that because I wanted to get some articles for Dialogue from women. That became the first Mormon women’s personal essay book that wasn’t published by the Church, I guess. I thought it was just something I could do for Dialogue. I didn’t realize it would become its own book later on. Then Chick died when I was 61. He died on his birthday, December 11, 1991. We were married 34 years. Didn’t quite make it to 35. I was not expecting to be a widow, so that was bad. It was hard to have hopes and dreams and plans as a widow. What am I going to do next? I did start to have grandchildren. Multiple grandchildren in the 90s. I tended to them and we all cried the whole time. My friends decided it would be good for my grieving to go to Ireland with them. Good place to go. I got in with the Irish friends and went to Ireland, so I also attended Catholic church for a while. Are you more comfortable in the Church or less comfortable than you were twenty years ago? Fifty years ago? Mary L. Bradford with Her Children and Their Spouses It comes and goes. Fifty years ago, in the 1960s in the Arlington Ward, I was quite happy. Chick became the bishop soon after we moved there. I loved the church; it was fun with a lot of great friends our same age. I loved my callings—mostly teaching Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society. We had some great lessons, lots of literature lessons. There wasn’t a lot about church that made me uncomfortable at the time, but some people thought I was a little uppity. I should’ve been having more kids instead of trying to write things, you know. I “only” had three kids. But it was a good ward. I was happy in the Church. They gave me lots of support. Then 20 years ago, it was about 1995, I was 65. I was very uncomfortable. Chick had passed away. I was a widow. Still living in Arlington, but Chick was not with me anymore. That changed things. At first I thought I had to move away, but I got good advice not to do that. Don’t make too many decisions. So I stayed from when he died to 2001 or 2002. I rented out the basement and always had a bunch of different people coming to stay. In 2002, I moved to Leisure World [a retirement community in the DC metropolitan area]. It was too quiet. “The grave is a fine, quiet place, but none, I think, do there embrace.” I didn’t really attend my ward there. Being single at church made it different. I realized how hard it is for single people. I’ve spent over fifty years single, so I know what it’s like. I was a “special interest” at BYU – an unmarried adult when I was an instructor there. People at BYU thought I was going to church in Salt Lake. Salt Lake people thought I was going at BYU. I was really inactive because I felt out of it and left out. And that happened again as a widow. Well, as a widow I was active, but not really. I’d go to church but once in a while. Then I shifted to [my daughter] Lorraine’s ward in Sterling, Virginia. I go every week now. It’s important to feel part of the family, but it’s easier to feel part of the family when you bring a family to church with you. You’ve discussed some regrets—some unfinished work. What do you consider your greatest accomplishment? My children. I don’t really take full credit, though. I’m really pleased with all my kids and grandkids and the choices they’ve made. I’m quite proud about the books I’ve written. I think they’ve turned out well. That Bennion book was really wonderful [Lowell L. Bennion: Teacher, Counselor, Humanitarian]. Brother Bennion was happy with it, so that’s important. His son told me he kept looking through it, and he was reading it again the day he died. People loved him and were glad to have me do it, so it was a good project. But it turned out publishing it was another matter. People say if you’re doing something really good, it builds up a big shadow, and the shadow will try to get you. I found that out. I had no trouble writing the book because people loved it and loved him. But suddenly when it came to publishing it, there was all this trouble. So Dialogue finally published it, which I thought was right because he liked Dialogue and he helped us get going. It ended up being a really nice volume. [It won the David W. and Beatrice C. Evans Biography Award in 1995 and the Mormon History Association Best Biography Award in 1996.] I’m also proud of my book of essays, Leaving Home, and my recent one Mr. Mustard Plaster. And my poetry book, Purple, which had limited circulation. About 300 people read that. I’m proud of my unpublished writings, too. I’ve written lots of poems. My Irish novella, The Harp. [This was published in 2020, the year of Mary’s 90th birthday.] There’s a collection of poems, some essays that I’ve half-finished, and the various piece of the Virginia Sorensen stuff. I also really value the friends I’ve made and people I’ve connected with. Some prominent, some unknown. I couldn’t go on without the people in my life. I’ve been lucky. Plenty of people went through our house, staying there. Brother Bennion always said, “People count the most.” People I worked with on Dialogue were great. I always had lots of friends growing up, people in the neighborhood, and cousins were important to me. What advice do you have for your grandchildren that will lead toward happy families? Get an education. Don’t marry too soon. Learn how to think, whatever you do. If it takes a master’s degree, fine. But learn how to figure out what’s going on. I learned how to think, especially about my faith, from Lowell Bennion at the Institute of Religion. Mary L. Bradford and Her Grandchildren I think having a family that plays together, discusses things, talks openly… My family would sit around and talk about what was happening to us. We always had a time we’d report on what we were doing, school, friendships, fears. I learned to do that and Chick didn’t. He was uncomfortable with it. Be willing to talk to your family about your problems. For a while, Chick was quite unhappy with me for wanting to do that. He didn’t think he should unload his troubles on others – just grin and bear it. Although I don’t think he was uncommunicative. He did love to talk about everything. He would sometimes say what subjects are off-limits: the Republican party [Chick was a Republican and Mary was a Democrat]. Sex. I overrode that actually. The Church—he didn’t want people bad-mouthing the Church, though. That was a common phrase of his. Anytime we disagreed it was “bad-mouthing!” But that was all in fun. He was open to real discussions. My other advice is to read a lot. Read a lot, learn to think, get educated, and communicate with each other about your problems. Who has most inspired you in your life? Well, of course my parents. Lowell Bennion and Esther Peterson. Virginia Sorensen. I met Esther, Virginia’s cousin, when I moved to Washington. She worked for a few presidents at the White House, and I got to know her quite well. They wanted her to write her biography. Some guy was going to write it for her and she didn’t like him. She said why didn’t I do it? That would have been great. I worked out a plan where I would interview her and write it up, about once a week. But then I guess people got wind of it and no one knew me. Why was I doing this? She ended up writing her own book and dictating it to her secretary. It came out the same time as my Bennion book. But I really admired Esther. What matters most? My family! I’m so lucky! I thought when Chick died, it was all over. But it wasn’t because I have such great family. My three kids. Four grandchildren, just barely, were born before Chick died. Eight more arrived after. I’m so lucky. At A Glance Name: Mary Lythgoe Bradford Age: 91 Location: Arlington, Virginia & Provo, Utah Marital History: Widowed Children: 3 -Steve, Lorraine, Scott Occupation: Writer Convert to the Church: n/a Schools Attended: Bachelor’s degree and master’s degree in English, University of Utah Languages Spoken At Home: English Favorite Hymn: I Stand All Amazed Interview produced by Allie Bradford Brown