Eva Witesman is a professor of public management at BYU, and also serves as an advisor for several non-profit organizations. Her path has surprised her at times, as she has sought revelation from God and made deliberate choices to follow the counsel of the Spirit. She is the mother of four living children (including one adopted daughter), and two children who were born still. She and her husband cooperatively parent as they support each other’s personal pursuits. Eva gave a July 2017 BYU devotional called “A Future Only God Could See For You,” which commented on the right each woman has to her own personal revelation regarding her educational or personal path. In this interview, Eva follows up on some of the ideas in her devotional, and talks more about her own career and family journey. This complete interview may be heard at the Mormon Women Project podcast. You teach at the BYU Marriot School of Business, but your work extends far beyond your teaching. Can you talk briefly about what else you’re involved in professionally right now? The specific work that I do, both in the school and outside, really deals with government and non-profit organizations. I do everything from talking about how best to manage those, to volunteering in them myself as a board member of a couple of different non-profit organizations. I sit on a board that deals with evidence-based research at the state level for prevention of drug and alcohol use and of suicide. Is that the path you expected to go down when you started studying Public Policy and Management in grad school? It’s funny, because if you look backwards it looks like a really straight line from everything that I did even in high school and college—like it was just sort of one brick building on top of another. But at the time I had no idea where I was headed, or what I was going to end up doing. I certainly didn’t envision myself being a full-time professor, much less at BYU. (I was never a student here.) It felt at the time like a totally disjointed path, or at least not a straight shot. But looking back it all makes sense. What initially excited you about doing this work? About Public Policy and Management and the analysis that you do for non-profit organizations? Really it’s the public and non-profit piece that was always sort of inside me somewhere. I was drawn to a lot of arts and a lot of volunteer opportunities when I was in high school. That continued in college when I was an undergrad at the University of Utah. I was really engaged with the Bennion Center there and I did a lot of volunteering with them, and actually helped develop their brand new service learning courses. When it was time to graduate, I was only interested in applying for non-profit or government jobs. I think I applied for just one private sector job, and I really didn’t have a lot of interest in taking it. So I ended up working at a non-profit. But I wasn’t self-aware enough to realize that that was something I was choosing. That’s just what resonated with me. That’s what I cared about. That’s what was interesting to me, and I didn’t want to do a job that didn’t interest me. I wasn’t about the money. I wasn’t about making someone else money. I wasn’t even about the innovation of the product or the services, which can be really cool. For me it was about service, it was always about service. Once I ended up working in a non-profit, I fell in love with the work. And not just the specific work of that organization (we were developing educational software), but the idea of working for the public good in general. It sort of chose me. Which sounds super cliché, but that’s exactly what happened. Eva Witesman You had several revelatory moments along your educational path that surprised you. How did you recognize that it was God’s voice directing you in those moments? It’s been a serious matter of practice over time trying to understand when it’s His voice, and when it’s my voice, or maybe even coming from some place a little more sinister. For me there are a couple of experiences that sort of set apart the Lord’s voice. The first one is the feeling of the Spirit—so it is less about the message and more about the messenger. I experience it the way that it’s described in the scriptures: a burning in the bosom and a clarity in the mind. I feel it in my mind and in my heart and, especially when it’s strong, it’s an overwhelming burning sensation. It’s clear and it’s unmistakable. For the biggest moments in my life, that’s been the key distinguishing factor. The second piece is the way that those revelatory moments are communicated to me. Often I experience those in the same way that I learn. I’m a very auditory learner, that’s my learning style. And a lot of times I will receive promptings as words or phrases, and they’re very short and not always super easy to interpret. But when I’m feeling the Spirit in that way, and I’m receiving a message in that way, I know that’s something that I need to study out. And sometimes it’s more clear—sometimes it’s just like the one that I talked about in the devotional, “You’re coming back here for a PhD.” I mean it was as clear as that. But there are other times where it’s a little less obvious what I’m supposed to be doing and it takes a little more study and effort and prayer to figure it out. The more focused I am on the Spirit and being able to feel the Spirit—making sure that I am meaningfully taking the sacrament on a regular basis, reflecting on my own repentance process, choosing things in my life that are conducive to feeling that Spirit strongly—when I’m doing those things it’s more discernable. Can you share an example of a time when you felt that kind of clarity and peace when an answer came to you? The ones that I’ve experienced most clearly have dealt either with my educational path, or with my path as a parent, as a mother. And there are big ones and there are small ones. I was 37 weeks pregnant with my son. We’ve had a lot of challenges with pregnancies in the past. In fact, I carried one son for 34 weeks before I lost him. My doctors were really concerned about me being able to get him all the way to term, especially because we weren’t totally sure what had gone wrong before. So they wanted to go in and surgically birth my child right then. They were basically saying, “You need to make this decision, and we want to have him in three days.” And there were questions about hormone treatments and all kinds of things to make sure his lungs were developed, just a lot of stuff coinciding with that. And my husband and I needed to make a decision that day, within a couple of hours before our doctor was going to leave. We took our other three kiddos over to a friend’s house, changed our clothes and went to the temple. We didn’t have enough time to do a session, or really any service at all in the temple. So we sat next to each other on a couch in the hallway and prayed. I started to pray, and mid-prayer in my mind, the Spirit filled me and again I experienced it in an auditory way, so it was almost like a voice saying to my mind, “Go have your baby.” I started to argue with the Spirit, “But are his lungs going to be ok? I need to make sure he’s healthy, I don’t know if I can go through…” And it came back, “Just go have your baby.” “Yes, but am I supposed to get the hormone shots and what do I do…” “Just go have your baby.” And that third time I just knew. I knew it was going to be ok. It may be hard in some ways, but it was going to be ok, and I knew what needed to be done. So I finished my prayer and I turned to my husband who finished his prayer about the same time, and we looked at each other and wordlessly we stood up and we walked out of the temple, got in the car, and went back to the hospital, and told the doctor our decision. We didn’t even need to have a conversation about it because we both just knew. That was about sixteen months ago. Eva Witesman with Her Child You have four children—is that right? I do! Well, four here with us. And then two more that we look forward to meeting someday. You referred to the story of your second daughter in your devotional, about the moment where you and your husband received the inspiration to adopt her. Can you share that story here too? It’s actually really similar to the story that I just told. My husband had a job offer in Washington DC, and the idea of going and living and working in Washington DC was very attractive to both of us. But I couldn’t get confirmation that that’s really what I was supposed to do. I was preparing to be a stay-at-home mom to my, then, very young eldest daughter. With the salary that he had been offered we would have been living out in the suburbs, and I was just trying to get Heavenly Father’s confirmation that that’s what He wanted for me, and that I was going to be okay. Because frankly the whole thing, as perfect as it seemed, was a bit scary for a variety of reasons. I was looking for that sense of Spirit and that sense of confirmation. This was a very tense time for my husband and me. He was really excited about the job. And I couldn’t give him any good reasons not to take it, other than that I didn’t feel good about it yet. We had been praying and fasting and we went to the temple together. We were asked to do sealings that day. As we were doing that, I just again had this overwhelming sense of the Spirit, followed by an impression that we needed to adopt. This was not at all the question we had gone to the temple with. We wanted to know whether or not to take the job. That’s what was causing stress in our lives and our marriage, and that’s what we really needed help with, or so we thought. But this was the answer that came. We were walking out of the building and we were headed toward our car, and Owen asked me, “Did you have any impressions?” And I said, “I did, but it was kind of weird.” And he said, “I had one too, and mine was kind of weird.” And I said, “Ok, I’ll tell you mine if you’ll tell me yours.” And he said ok. And I don’t remember which of us said it first, but we both had had the same impression that we needed to adopt. So rather than worrying about the job for the next few weeks, I started figuring out adoption papers. And that was the beginning of the process that led to our adoption of Amelia. What an amazing story. How did that influence the job decision? Did he end up taking it in the end? We ended up actually not taking the job. We were both in Master’s programs still at this point, so I was still in classes. At some point after the adoption revelation I was sitting in my very last non-profit management class of the semester and it was being taught by a professor who studies non-profit collaboration. She was sharing some of her research, and seemingly out of nowhere I felt the Spirit overwhelmingly and again, a voice in my mind said, “You’re going to come back here for a PhD.” We’d just had this experience with our independent revelations about adoption, and so that was now the new model for me of how this was supposed to work. I believed that we would receive our personal revelations in parallel and that we would share them and reconcile them. I told him, “I have had what I feel like is an answer to my prayers, and I know what I’m going to do. And I need you to be as sure about what you’re going to do and then we’re going to figure out how to do both those things that the Lord is asking of us.” He went away and prayed more about all of this and came back to me and said, “You know what? My clearance for this job in DC is still coming through. But in the meantime, I’ve been offered this internship in Finland with the Finnish Literature Society and I’d really like to take it. So, can we go to Finland for the year?” And that totally worked with my plans. I couldn’t apply for my program for another six months, because that’s when the application deadlines were. I was like, “Sure! Let’s go to Finland. That sounds like a great adventure.” I felt totally good about that. For me, it wasn’t a big revelatory answer. It was just, sure, this fits with what I already know I need to be doing. So we did that, and then later as we reconciled things, we decided indeed to go back to Indiana to start more graduate work. We never did take the job. That was hard for both of us. It was hard for me to give up living in DC, it’s still a goal of mine to do that someday. And for him, it was difficult because this was a dream job opportunity for him. But in the end that wasn’t meant for us, at least at that time. Eva Witesman You have been so bold in following this path. Giving birth to, and adopting, and mothering four children without taking a break from your professional pursuits. I think for a lot of women, it sounds really daunting to balance graduate school with mothering. So can you talk about how you balance those two callings? The first thing I’ll say is, we did what the Lord was asking, so that’s what made it easy. Not easy. It was never easy. That’s a terrible word to use. But that’s what made it emotionally possible. We were in school, so it ended up that there were classes he wanted to take that he couldn’t take, and classes that I wanted to take that I couldn’t take because we couldn’t get our schedules to work out. There was a lot of give and take in that. Honestly, being parents and students at the same time was great because we could trade off. It was hard in a lot of ways. We were super exhausted all the time. There’s a lot of stuff we just didn’t do. People hear that we lived in Indiana for close to seven years, and they’re like, “Oh, did you go to basketball games? Did you do all these other things?” No! We didn’t do anything. We did our school and we parented, and that was pretty much it. Our church callings were in there somewhere too. But just surviving parenting and school was enough for the two of us, just trying to stay sane and get some sleep here and there. It was super hard but it was so fun and it was so good for our partnership. I had Julia, my eldest, during the spring semester of my first year in the Master’s program. I had set up as much independent schooling as I could do. I took a couple of online classes that semester. I took a research class. I also took a class that only met on Saturdays, but it was all day Saturday and it was on the Indianapolis campus, which is an hour North of where we were in Bloomington. My daughter was really young—I’d just had her right in the middle of that semester—so this is how we made that work. Owen and I would both go up to Indianapolis, and I would sit outside the door of the classroom and nurse Julia, then hand her over to him. He would go wander around campus for about two hours until she started to get fussy again, and then would come back and bring her to me. I would go and sit just outside the door so I could still listen to the lecture. (Had I been a bolder person, I probably would have just brought her in there with me, but at that time I wasn’t ready to own it all quite that thoroughly.) I sat there on the floor, nursing my baby next to the open door to the classroom, and I just have this strong memory of imagining him walking around campus to make this possible for me. He’s not getting any of his studying done on Saturday because he’s just supporting me. And of course I try to do the same for him in the things that he is endeavoring to do. If you could give one piece of advice to other LDS mothers who feel called to further their education during their childbearing years, what would it be? If I only get one piece of advice, it’s always going to be the same advice, and that is seek the Lord’s council and follow it, and he will make the world possible for you. I very much feel the devotional was not my message, but His message, and I felt very humbled to be the messenger. Through that process I had this overwhelming sense of love from Him and empowerment from Him for His daughters. That’s the message. That’s it. That’s what we need to do. We need to seek his council, and trust it, and follow it, and sometimes it is so hard in so many ways. Socially, and emotionally, and physically even, it can be so hard. But He will make possible for us to do what we need to be able to do. It sounds like your husband was a big part of how it was made possible, that you two have followed a really cooperative model in your parenting and in your marriage. That anecdote was a good demonstration of it, but I’m wondering about today. What does your cooperation look like on a day-to-day basis in your parenting? My husband actually also finished a PhD and has the opportunity if he so chooses to go into academia, but he’s also had other things that he’s interested in doing. He is an entrepreneur, he runs his own translation business and is one of the most sought after Finnish to English translators in the world. He has his own stuff that he is passionate about and that he’s excited about. He’s also a certified mountain guide, and rock climbing guide, and he loves the outdoors and loves doing all of that and especially working with clients. What that looks like today is a lot of us talking about it and trying to figure out what works for him, and what works for me, and what isn’t working for him, and what isn’t working for me, and sometimes there’s conflict involved in that—trying to figure out how to make sure each of us is being able to follow the pursuits that we care about and that we find fulfilling while also supporting the other. And then of course, especially while our kids are home and so young, primarily that we are raising them well, spending time with them, having fun with them, guiding them, and doing all those really important things. Eva Witesman with Her Husband I mentioned my husband runs his own business. He works from home. When I’m on campus teaching or meeting with students, I know that he’s at home watching our now 16-month-old kiddo, or handling pick-ups if necessary. We communicate about who’s doing what, and sometimes things fall through the cracks—that’s sort of inevitable. But we try to make sure we’re on top of the important things. I try to do a fair amount of my work at home, although frankly working at home brings its own challenges. It’s hard enough to be trying to do as many things as we’re doing. It’s even more hard to do them all at exactly the same time, which is what parenting at home and working at home looks like. That’s one of the things we’ve learned over time, is that it’s really best if the parent who’s working is working, and not trying to parent at the same time. Juggling that is a challenge. How are you and your husband preparing your own daughters to make deliberate life choices in consultation with the Spirit. You talked in your devotional about how we sometimes clip the wings of women and girls in the church, and just in the world, and I want to hear about what you’re doing to make sure that you don’t clip your daughters’ wings. The first and most important thing is trying to teach them to feel the Spirit themselves so they can be empowered themselves to find God’s direction and to follow it. By our own examples, what we do day in and day out is itself going to be empowering. My parents empowered me in that way. They did what they did, and they didn’t need to tell me to do things or be ambitious. I knew it was acceptable because it’s what they were doing. The example and role model that I had in my home was my mom—she was a top management executive. That’s what she did. She was doing things of worldwide consequence. She’d come home and she’d talk about it, and so I knew that that was an option for me. I never imagined that it wasn’t. I think just having a home where everybody’s supporting everybody in doing what matters to them of one of our top priorities. My eldest is into all kinds of arts right now. She loves the sciences as well, and does a lot of stuff with science and technology. But her passion right now is in the arts. She sings, and she does photography, and so we just encourage that, and we imagine different career paths that could lead to, and we try to connect her with people who have followed those career paths. My six-year-old is kind of a naturalist. She’s an outdoorsy person, at this point in her life—she loves bugs, and plants, and rocks, and all those things. So we have rock collections around the house, and we talk about what it would be like to be a geologist, and we’ve connected her with different people who do careers like that. There’s a joke that any of our kids’ friends who come over and stay for dinner will be asked by my husband at some point, “So what are you going to get your Master’s degree in?” That’s just kind of the environment in our home, mostly because that’s what we’ve done. I think really it’s just about getting in there with the kids and imagining with them, rather than saying, “You can’t, or you shouldn’t, or you oughtn’t do whatever it is.” And sometimes that’s harder in others. I have tended more toward the sciences in my professional and educational life, even though I love the arts and I’m doing things more with that now. So for a while it was hard for me to imagine sending my daughter into an arts career, and I was trying to pull her a different direction. At some point I realized that was not what I needed to be doing. What I needed to be doing was encouraging her in what her passions were, and it’s been so exciting to watch her flourish the more that we’ve done that and encouraged her in what she wants to do. And it may change, or it may stay the same. People do all kinds of different things in their lives. And life is long. Eva Witesman with Her Daughters You made this clear in your devotional by talking about the experiences of some of your friends, but I want to give you the opportunity to make it clear here as well. If one of your daughters decided that she didn’t want a professional career, and wanted to be a stay-at-home-mother, would you feel like she is not spreading her wings? Not at all. Being a mom is the most challenging and fulfilling experience. It’s incredible. I don’t think anyone in any circumstance is limiting themselves if they’re following what the Lord wants for them, and if they’re happy. I think what’s limiting is if Heavenly Father opens doors for you and encourages you to walk through them and you choose not to. And I think that’s true whether that’s being a stay-at-home mom, which is itself a courageous act, or whether it’s taking a job, which is also a courageous act. Do you feel like you have overcome any wing-clipping in your own life? This is a funny thing. My parents and my grandparents (with whom I was very close) were so encouraging of my education and of an ultimate professional life. The school environment I was in was also incredibly encouraging and nurturing of any pursuit that I was interested in. I didn’t notice any of that for myself, really possibly ever. It wasn’t until much, much later in my career that I even had offhand comments that rubbed me the wrong way. I’ve been really lucky in that regard. But now, being a professor I get to make contact with a lot of people, including folks who are mid-career. It’s through their stories that I’ve started to see all the limitation that get put on people, either in their home environments, or their work environments, or their school environments. I used to teach a math refresher course before the Master’s, we called it Math Camp just for fun, for students to brush up on some of the mathematical concepts they were going to be expected to know. I had several women students come up to me and say, “When I was learning this stuff the first time, my teacher told me I didn’t need to know it because I was a girl, and it wouldn’t matter in my life.” To have a teacher tell you that! And more than once I had women who would literally break down in tears talking to me about this and say, “I didn’t even know I was capable of learning these concepts because of the messages that I have received from the people in my life.” So that does two things for me. One, it makes me really grateful for the experience I’ve had, and the mentorship that I’ve had, and the belief that people have placed in me. But it also makes me absolutely want to advocate a world in which everyone gets that opportunity and experience the way that I did. I find it incredibly upsetting and frankly a little disturbing that these experiences are so prevalent. Is there a way that we, in particular as Mormons, do this? Clip the wings of women and girls? This is a hard question, because there’s a culture and a time period in which the answer is “yes.” I don’t want to label all Mormonism, and certainly not the doctrine as something that is stunting for women. Because I don’t at all feel that way. But I do feel like there’s been a period of time, in the broader society as well, where there’s been a pretty specific view of what a woman’s role is—not just during the childbearing years, but during her whole life. That this is the one and only appropriate path for her. And I see it originating out of some cultural and industrial shifts that happened around the 50’s, and I think that that’s something that the LDS culture has been particularly susceptible to. I think it’s a worldly falsehood, and I think in some ways Mormon women lost their way and became worldly, but not in the way that we usually think of that. Not “worldly” in the way of contributing to the world of work or of society, but rather the opposite. “Worldly” in that we were following a pattern that did not originate from God: the idea that we do not have a voice in society, or oughtn’t. Or that we shouldn’t have a place in the workplace. None of that is consistent with the early LDS church. None of that is consistent with the role and prominence of the Relief Society and other organizations within our current church organization. It’s not consistent with the words of prophets. It’s kind of a flip, because usually when we talk about women being worldly, it’s this idea that worldly women don’t want to have kids, or do things in male-dominated fields. But I actually think about it very differently. I think that there is this other “worldly” idea, this iconic and stereotypical image of the pearls- and heels-wearing stay-at-home-mom who’s using her brand new appliances in the 50’s to cook dinner for the family. And cooking dinner for the family is great. I’m not a big fan of heels because they hurt my feet and hips. Pearls are lovely. All of that is fine. But this image is not God’s image. I think we adopted this commercial image, and it’s about the same time that TV was happening and becoming prominent in people’s lives. This image was literally transported into people’s homes as an example, and I think our love of our families and our love of our children made us particularly susceptible to that iconic imagery. I think we lost ourselves a little bit. Thank you for answering a hard question. In your devotional talk, you read a quote President Eyring that I’m going to read here, “Part of the tragedy you must avoid is to discover too late that you missed an opportunity to prepare for a future only God could see for you.” Do you feel like there’s such a thing as “too late”? I’ve heard from women who say they wish they had gotten degrees and pursued careers, but that they hadn’t realized it was a legitimate choice when they were newly married or when they were in school. I’ve heard from other women who regret postponing motherhood, or who regret not serving a mission. Women who feel like they missed the opportunity that President Eyring describes, and have found themselves facing this tragic regret. I want you to answer, if you can, what is her way forward, the woman who faces that? It’s really key to remember that in the scriptures the Lord says that all things can be consecrated for our good, including the more difficult experiences in our lives. Any mistakes or regrets that we might have, or difficult experiences that we’re dealing with—they don’t have to stay tragic. Even the regrets and missed opportunities—and I think there is such a thing as opportunities that won’t come again—even those things can be consecrated for our good. I think we can learn from them. I think we can teach other using those. I think we can pick up wherever we are and improve, always. I don’t think it’s ever too late to get knowledge, certainly not knowledge, especially in the day in age that we live in, where knowledge is freely and widely available. We can stream it straight into our home and learn and wrestle with ideas and talk to other people in real time, so we never have to feel like we’ve missed the opportunity to learn in that way. I don’t even think it’s ever too late to return for a formal education. We see periodically folks in their 80s who are getting their first degree, or getting their Master’s degree, and I think that’s something that can and should be embraced by people who might feel those regrets if it’s right for them now. There may be opportunities that aren’t right, or aren’t right at this time. I would say the same thing that I said before: get the guidance of Heavenly Father. What does He say about how to make sense of the opportunities that have passed you by? I am one of those who regrets not having served a full-time mission. I had always intended to, and when the time came I found myself unprepared. I chose not to do that, and I regret that decision. And that is gone. I can’t go back and be a young sister missionary again. But I can take that regret and I can allow God to consecrate it for my good. I can let him teach me through that experience so I don’t make that mistake again, so that I can encourage others, using my experience to help invite the Spirit into their lives, so that they can make the decisions that are right for them. I think it’s possible to miss a future that we could have had, but that doesn’t mean that the Lord won’t make something beautiful of the future we have now. Eva Witesman and Her Family How do you feel that your education or your career have helped you build the kingdom? Have helped you serve the purpose God has for you? I’m still figuring that out every day. I think about what drew me to some of this and the visions I had as a younger person that through government and non-profit work I was going to make these broad and sweeping societal improvements, and touch so many lives, and I still believe some of that. But what I’ve found more and more as time passes is that the real influence that I have is one-on-one. It’s the individual student who comes into my office with something either related to class, or more often, totally unrelated to class, and the ways we’re able to talk and connect and share and bear our testimonies. That’s the stuff that really matters, and that’s the stuff that impacts the world, and that, I think, is what God wants of all of us. I don’t think you have to be some professor or some PhD somewhere to have the kind of influence God wants us to have. I think it’s moment to moment, day to day. How do you treat the sales clerk at the grocery store? Do you stop and talk to your friend who it even if you’re going to be late to your meeting? Do you take the phone call from your mom even though you have a million other things to do? I think that’s influence that everyone can have, and that I think is my real calling. And frankly, it’s much harder than writing a research paper or teaching a class, because it requires being emotionally present. It means listening, it means making time, it means all kinds of tiny sacrifices that we don’t really think of or honor on a day-to-day basis. But I think that’s the vision, and it doesn’t require a PhD or a career. It just requires us to be in tune moment to moment, and to seek that guidance and follow it. At A Glance Name: Eva Witesman Age: 39 Location: Springville, Utah Marital History: Married since 2001 to Owen Witesman Children: Julia (14), Amelia (9), Sophia (6), William (1), plus two more boys who were born still. Occupation: Professor, BYU Marriott School of Business Schools Attended: U of U (Bachelor of University Studies), Indiana University, Bloomington (MPA, PhD) Favorite Hymn: How Firm a Fountation Website: evawitesman.com Interview Produced by Meredith Marshall Nelson

At five feet tall, Esther Yu Sumner has a big vision for life. The 39-year-old marketing professional, now a published children’s author, is always in pursuit of her next creation—her energy and creativity has led her friends to call her a “hummingbird.” Whether she is sewing an apron for her niece, making grape juice from her neighbor’s grapes, drawing pictures of her imaginary friend Pie or baking bread, she embodies her mantra that creation brings deep satisfaction and fulfillment. A simple creative act, she says, can lift us up when we are struggling, and yield astounding joy. What was the religious or spiritual background of your childhood? My parents were both converted to the LDS church when they were in their teens. My mom took an English class in Taiwan that was taught by missionaries, and my dad had missionaries knock on his door in Taiwan. Growing up, my faith was a guiding star. I always had a belief in God. I always wanted to make good choices that make being here meaningful and fun. The words we use shape how we understand ourselves and interpret the world. What was your upbringing in relation to words? There was always a love of language, in terms of reading and writing, in my home. From a very young age my mom would take me to the library and I’d check out the limit of 21 children’s books. I’d read through them, and she’d take me back the next week. When I was old enough, I rode my bike to the library and would fill up my little bag with books. Young Esther Yu Sumner and Her Family How would you describe the qualities of the wisest people you’ve known, and what makes them wise? They have a desire to learn. I think my parents and my husband are very wise. They have the ability to step back and see the big picture, and not just react to circumstances. Esther Yu Sumner and Her Husband Your friends compare you to a hummingbird, full of energy and activity. Is there a physical activity that you most enjoy? Yes, mountain biking! Someone asked me once, “When are you the most happy?” and I think it’s when I’m going downhill on a mountain bike. I usually have a giant grin on my face. It’s where I can think. Esther Yu Sumner on Her Mountain Bike In addition to your love for mountain biking, you also love to create stuff. You draw, write, sew, garden, and bake, among other things. What inspires your creative energy? About eight years ago, I was having a tough work year. I heard a couple of talks about creating and being true to yourself that really inspired me. There are things you can do to help yourself when you’re struggling—like serving others, which I’m a huge fan of—but creating is another thing that we can all do. In the “Happiness, Your Heritage” talk from the October 2008 General Conference, President Dieter F. Uchtdorf talked about how we all have this innate desire to create, and it’s this God-given right that we have. That talk helped me choose between two jobs. I also heard the story of stained glass artist Tom Holdman, who has a significant speech impediment. He shared how his stutter really affected him and yet he found joy through his art. He’s had this amazing career creating stained-glass windows for LDS temples. His story really impacted me. Esther Yu Sumner Works as a Senior Services Product Manager at Adobe What are your favorite ways to express yourself? Writing and drawing. My drawing is very loose and casual, so I call it doodling. That was one of the things I loved about President Uchtdorf’s talk — that to create something, you don’t have to be the best, you just create things that bring you joy, and that can bring joy to others. One of Esther Yu Sumner's Doodles Part of being creative is just being willing to try new things. I have a friend who gave me a pile of grapes and I decided I wanted to learn how to make grape juice. I just got on the internet and figured out how. That was one of my creative moments this weekend. It was very satisfying. I would have just eaten the grapes, but you taught yourself how to make grape juice. Google is wonderful. [laughs] Esther Yu Sumner in Creative Mode You recently wrote and published My Nativity ABCs, a children’s book with illustrations. What inspired you to write it? Whenever I’m struggling in life, I go back to President Uchtdorf’s talk and I try to find ways to be creative. I wrote this children’s Christmas poem during a time when I knew I needed to do something creative. In the meantime, I had also been serving in the primary for the last seven years, as a primary chorister and now as president. Primary kids are my favorite people. I love that age. I love the things we teach them, and in particular the stories from the scriptures, like the story of Mary and Joseph — not just baby Jesus being born in the stable, but the whole journey. Children learn really well through short rhymes, so it was fun for me to take a story that I love from the scriptures, put it in a format that’s easy for children to follow, and do it in a way that could be creative. It’s an alphabet story. The first line is “A is for Angel that spoke of Christ’s birth.” Esther Yu Sumner with Her Book I originally wrote this poem in 2014, and in 2015 I thought, “Ok, this is the year. I need to illustrate it and get it published.” And when I say published, I meant in my own format that I could just give to my primary kids. I wasn’t thinking about getting it professionally published. I drew little pictures that went with the lines of the poem, found a website that printed fairly inexpensive miniature books, and I made copies for the families in my neighborhood. I had a friend who I really respect tell me, “My family read this. We really think that you should get this published.” The way she said it, I thought, “I should try.” So, I sent it in, and Cedar Fort wanted the story. It turned out beautifully. I wrote this book with my primary kids and my nieces and nephews in mind, but I really feel like it’s a book for everyone. I hope it makes Christmas more meaningful for them — that they’re really thinking, “Wow, this is what Christmas is about.” This book is an opportunity to sit down with your family and have a meaningful moment. Esther Yu Sumner Do you have any advice for people who serve in primary callings, or parents with young children, and how to engage children in spiritual learning? The church handbook makes it clear that a primary leader’s job is to teach them, but it’s supplemental teaching. First and foremost, they should be learning spiritual things in the home. I’m in a neighborhood where the parents are highly invested in their children, and you can see it reflected when the kids come to church and participate in primary. I think a lot of it is just being open and having conversations with them. It’s a willingness to let them be curious and ask questions. For people serving in primary callings, find ways to be more proactive beyond preparing a lesson each week. Get to know your kids. For example, if you teach the 7-year-olds, you could attend their baptisms when they turn 8 or talk to your class about upcoming baptisms. It’s always a good thing for the children to see that you’re there for them. Anytime you can reach out, they will totally embrace it. At A Glance Name: Esther Yu Sumner Age: 39 Location: Lindon, Utah Occupation: Senior services product manager at Adobe, writer and doodler Schools Attended: Brigham Young University Favorite Hymn: How Great Thou Art Instagram: @ILikeToCreateStuff Website: https://www.amazon.com/My-Nativity-Abcs-Esther-Summer/dp/146212027X Interview Produced by Kathryn Peterson

Angela Johnson grew up with a burning desire to become an opera star. She wholeheartedly pursued that goal while she raised a family, until a powerful spiritual impression changed her life path. Entirely self-taught, she is now an accomplished sculptor who uses her gift to share her testimony of Jesus Christ, including in a permanent installment called the Light of the World Garden. She hopes her story empowers others to discover and develop the unique gifts they have been given. Tell me about your background. Where did you grow up, family, structure, etc? I grew up on a dairy farm in Montana, very close to the Canadian border. I was the fifth of nine children, five girls, four boys. My mother was very into classical music—specifically opera music. When I heard opera, I was just enchanted by it. I was a very shy, withdrawn little girl, partly because there was a lot of abuse in my family. She got me into voice lessons when I was 13 and I always wanted to be a prima donna when I grew up. That was the trajectory I was on. What was your opera training like? I got a scholarship to BYU in vocal performance. In my 20s and 30s I had recital and concert opportunities, studied with vocal coaches from Europe, and worked extremely hard to accomplish my goal. I got married when I was 18 and had four children. When I started having children I continued to study privately. I did opera workshops and part-time classes at community colleges to develop my languages. I practiced my repertoire of Italian, German, French, and Spanish arias. My mind was definitely set. Opera was never in competition with my love for my children or my family because they always came first. Sometimes, for various reasons, women stop developing themselves when they have a family, but that wasn’t my experience. I just continued to do it, and involved my children. In between peanut butter sandwiches, they’d play with their Legos underneath my piano. My kids would watch me make my own costumes on the sewing machine. There I was doing all of this as they were developing their creativity and I was helping them develop their talents. When I’d go to bed and stop singing, somebody would say, “Hey, keep singing. I’m not asleep yet!” My children and my grandchildren are the greatest light of my life. They have a beauty that comes from heaven and it fed my soul. Even with opera as my individual interest, I could still manage them, and I managed them very intensely. Angela at Work in Her Studio Where did your empowerment to fully pursue both creative and family pursuits come from? My absolute, fervent conviction is that growth, challenge, and creativity are a vital part of my faith. Our inheritance as children of God is what empowered and continues to empower my growth. You never stop being an individual. According to our religious beliefs, we all have our own individual, eternal identity. To me it was never a question or an option not to develop myself. Nor was I intimidated or felt like I got lost when I became a mother. I felt immediately magnified. Exploring the imaginations of children just accentuated my own. I knew what I wanted. I wanted to be a prima donna at the Metropolitan Opera. Never mind that down the road when I’d audition or talk to opera people they’d say, “You know, you’re really very talented. You’ve just got one problem. You have a family.” When you have a vocal career, it is your family. It is your marriage. It is your children. I thought, “Well maybe in your world, but not in mine.” With this kind of blind naiveté I just kept going in that direction. I had the opportunity to teach at BYU Education Week at Hawaii and BYU Idaho for eight years about the power of music. I was building up this amazing reservoir and repertoire of performances, yet I also dealt with performance anxiety issues. It was never easy. Every time I sang, I would have serious panic attacks. But the backdrop of living in an abusive environment must have provided its own fire in my soul. Abuse is so suffocating and destructive that if you’re not moving up and out of it, it can take all life out of you. Angela's Sculpture, "It Is I, Be Not Afraid" How did your early experiences shape your relationship with Jesus Christ? From the time that I can remember, I have always loved Jesus Christ. I have always felt very close to him. I don’t know if it was a gift to help me to overcome the things I needed to overcome, but it has just always been there. Our trajectories in life are so unique and individual. It’s not for anyone to say, “Oh I feel badly because I didn’t have that.” It’s for them to look across the fabric and the tapestry of their lives and say, “Well this was her experience, and I can compare it to mine, but it doesn’t necessarily make mine greater or lesser. It’s just different.” It is amazing that people can move through such difficult challenges. Because at the time, you think they’re going to take you out. It’s the paradox and dichotomy in each of our lives that make us scratch our heads because we don’t have the answer sheet. We don’t get to look at the end of the book and go, “Oh, ok. That makes sense.” Rather, what are you going to do with your life? Are you going to lie there and die, or are you going to get up? Music helped me get up. But every time I sang, I’d experience excruciating pain. I am a daughter of God that Jesus Christ has blessed. He continues to perform his miracles, transforming ashes into beauty. Angela's Sculpture, "I Give You Living Water" What was the transition from opera path to sculpting path? This is the crescendo—to use a music term—building and building. I would have an audition or an opportunity, and I would get really close, but then it would move a mile away. It would think, “Ok I’m just about ready to break through,” and then it would move, and I would ask myself, “What is going on?” I believe in the philosophy that you can accomplish anything you put your mind to, and believe me, I had done that. I had paid the price and had diligently put a laser focus on it. I was in my late 30s and all my kids were in school. In the opera world, if you’re not singing at the Met in your late 30s, then there’s something wrong with you. I sat down at the piano on a spring morning in 1997 and started to launch into my 4-5 hours of vocal work. Then the spirit came to me and the message that it gave was, “You will never accomplish your ultimate vocal goals.” There was such a serious tone that I knew I was being told the truth. It wasn’t like, “Please! I’ll work harder! I’m doing my part!” None of that. I knew it was true. All of the scaffolding, all of the “You can do this,” all of the positive thinking, all of the optimism, all of the presentations, recitals, concerts, and auditions started to fall. And as it fell, I was completely devastated. The only way I can describe what happened next is very similar to how in the scriptures, certain prophets talk about being taken by the spirit. I felt I was taken by the spirit to the local art store where I bought a block of water based clay and one sculpting tool, and immediately drove back home. When I pulled the plastic down off the clay and my hands went into it, all the pain in my heart was gone. Like it just disappeared right into the clay. I began to take handfuls of clay in almost a choreographed motion, as though I knew exactly what I was doing. There was an intelligence in my hands I had never felt before. Four hours later there was a portrait of a little girl on my kitchen table. I was so taken and charmed with it that it felt like God’s fingers touched my heart and said, “It is now time for you to develop a talent that you didn’t know you had.” At that point there was absolutely no thought in my mind that I would ever depict Jesus Christ. The whole concept would have seemed ludicrous and extremely presumptuous since I had no background in sculpture. How could I even think of doing that? Angela at Work in Her Studio I’ve always wondered what the word “epiphany” actually means. But when you have one, you know that’s what it is. It’s something that you can’t logically explain, but you don’t need to logically explain it. The feeling was one of complete embrace. I started to sculpt one thing after another and about a year from when I began, I got my first bronze commission. For the next five years I had an amazing response to my sculpting and did 12 different commissions for various organizations. In spring 2003, I prayed again and said, “Heavenly Father, I know this gift is from you. But what do you want me to do with it?” In answer to that question, I was given a concept of a sculpture garden depicting Jesus Christ. It was given to me with absolute certainty that it would happen. That power of the spirit filled my soul and stayed with me from 2003 all the way to when the Light of the World Garden was unveiled at Thanksgiving Point [Utah] in September 2016. It was very intense! Once you knew that you were going to start these sculptures of Christ, how did you get the inspiration for them? How did you determine what your message would be? That’s a really good question, because many times we have false assumptions of how God gives us personal revelation. My personal revelation was the divine commission, the certitude that it would happen. But the rest of it was placed on my shoulders. What scenes you depict, the depiction of the Savior’s face, all of it was a process of myriad decisions, one right after another, in rapid succession. What resonates with me is depicting a relevant Christ. Not one that’s quaint and provincial, or a historical depiction. But selecting scenes that make modern viewers say, “Wow. That’s my story.” Or “That really surprises me.” Angela's Sculpture, "Lazarus, Come Forth" Many of your sculptures feature women. Do you feel a pull to include women or tell their stories? Absolutely. One of the first things I wanted to do was to have a large number of scenes involve women. I’ve never wondered, “Where are women in the gospel? Where are women in the church?” To me, they’re everywhere. There are so many more I would have loved to depict. I know the tools of the adversary to demean women. To mock them. To make them feel or seem invisible. I agree with James Talmage (a former LDS apostle) who says that there’s no greater champion of women and womanhood than Jesus Christ. Whatever the cultural traditions since the beginning of time, that’s not from Christ. I love to see women stand up, be glorious, develop their intellect, and engage in a nurturing way, whether they have children or not. I love to put them out there and tell their stories. Angela's Sculpture, "Mary" Tell us about the feedback that you’ve gotten about your Light of the World Garden. Are there any specific anecdotes that stick out of how your work has affected people? I was interviewed by a reporter from The Salt Lake Tribune. When he first came in, he was borderline flippant about, “Oh yay. We get to photograph and I get to interview this Jesus lady. Wow this is really fun.” And I thought, “Ok, whatever. At least we’re here together.” By the time we got over to “Lazarus, Come Forth,” he had a complete transformation. He was speaking quietly, without the previous attitude. He was very serious and said, “This is really intense.” It ended up to be one of my more moving interviews because the transition from where he started to where he ended was quite extreme. It was really beautiful. I have what I call “The Principle of Immersion.” There’s not just one statue of Christ, there are 15. From any point in the garden you can see probably three or four others. There have been many times when people have come up and said, “I have no idea what’s going on. You’ve got the scripture reference there, and you have the title of it, but tell me what the story’s about.” Maybe they didn’t go to Sunday School or they weren’t taught the Bible. But the interaction of the Savior with the individuals is engaging. And it’s meant to be engaging because Christ is that way. That is who he is. It’s not a one-way relationship. He doesn’t engage regardless of whether we want a relationship with him or not. He asks, “Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you.” It’s the participation. This is what every one of these scenes is depicting. Even “O My Father,” where the Savior is in prayer, he is participating with his Father in Heaven. It’s all about participation. Angela in Her Studio with Her Light of the World Statues The daughter of a friend of mine took her 3-year-old to the statue garden, and she sent me a picture of the little girl standing on her tippy toes looking into Joseph Smith’s eyes as he’s kneeling on the ground. My friend’s daughter asked the girl, “Honey what do you see in his eyes?” and she said, “Mommy, I see that he says, ‘I love you.’” Talk about “out of the mouth of babes.” Another woman emailed and said, “I hope it’s okay that I painted a picture of a photograph I took. Of all the statues in the garden, my little granddaughter sat at the feet of the Savior carrying the cross and wouldn’t move for the longest time. I took a picture of her there and painted it.” I replied, “I think that’s great! Send me this painting so I can see it!” It was so spiritual and so beautiful. When I’m there, I see people reading the entire scripture reference on each sculpture. I put a whole chapter as a scripture reference so that visitors would feel the context of what’s going on. It’s been extremely positive. When The Light of the World became a permanent part of Ashton Gardens at Thanksgiving Point, they decided to have a Christmas lighting extravaganza. They put little battery operated candles in tiny lanterns hung on shepherd hooks that were secured in the ground. There were probably over a thousand around the whole installment, and it was an absolutely breathtakingly spiritual experience. In the first year, of the 60,000 people that attended, over half of the guests responded on a survey that The Light of the World was their favorite part of the experience. I was surprised at how moved I was just doing my research for this interview, looking at pictures of the garden online. Thank you for creating something that even from far away, can be a powerful experience. You don’t have to be an art critic. All you have to be is a person that can determine how they feel by themselves. People ask, “Who’s Angela Johnson? She’s not even famous. Did she come from Italy? What university did she study at?” The reality is, because I am self-taught, the glory is more appropriately assigned to God because there’s no other explanation as to how I could do this. What blessings have you seen from the unexpected path that your life has taken? It’s my true identity. I feel greater peace. There’s just no comparison at all to what I assumed I would find in my operatic dreams as to how it feels for me to bear testimony of Jesus Christ through art. It’s so fulfilling. Beyond that, it’s the message, it’s the witness to my posterity of what was really most important for me. To have been given a tool to bear my testimony of Christ has been transforming. Angela's Sculpture, "Because of Love" What have you learned about yourself in this process of sculpting these works? Where Christ is concerned—because I wouldn’t do this for any other subject matter—I have incredible tenacity. Sculpting is so physical, so demanding. It’s really hard. And the way that the concept of the sculpture garden was given to me, and never left, was a magnificent endowment that strengthened me through a lot of really difficult obstacles. What have you learned about Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ through this process? How very personal they are, which is such a fascinating thing to contemplate. How many times are we as human beings distracted? And yet, they never are. You call someone and go, “Oh can I put you on hold for just a minute?” They never put us on hold. To me, the gateway of eternity is one of discovery and exploration, and they don’t rob us of that. I was so focused on one goal. With or without God’s approval, I was going to make my operatic career happen. When I was given that personal revelation as an answer to my prayer, I could have rejected it. But Heavenly Father knew I wouldn’t do that. And the rest is history. I was exhausted as the garden got closer and closer to completion, I had to finish two monumental statues a month. That’s unheard of. The foundry I worked with was amazing and bronzed two statues a month, which is also unheard of. Typically, one large statue takes 4-6 months, But the spirit said to me, “You do not know, you cannot comprehend the individuals whose lives will be touched by this work. But I do. Please finish. Please continue. Please stay strong. Do it for all those I will be able to reach with my spirit.” And I thought, “I will do it.” Angela's Sculpture, "His Gathering" Briefly, for people who aren’t familiar with the sculpting process, what does it look like? It’s so interesting when people say, “Oh, I can’t even draw a stick figure.” If you can draw a stick figure, then you can sculpt. The armature is a stick figure. It’s the metal framework inside that holds the clay, comparable to a skeletal structure for how we support ourselves. Clay alone can’t support itself. You have to have an understanding of proportion and what you’re going to do. What you want to do determines what kind of model and what kind of clothing they’re going to wear. I use living models and photograph them, then work mostly from the photographic detail. You have to know what story you are telling with the statue. Gradually, just as our thoughts shape us, my intent, thoughts, and desires shape the statue. They guide all of the refinement, all of the clarification, all of the anatomy that goes into it. How do you do research for you work? The facial expressions, the positions people are in? In high school I was very much into acting. One of the gifts of having the perspective of an actor is to be able to contemplate everything about whomever you’re trying to portray. Their gestures, their body language, the way they would hold their head. I wanted the end result of the sculptures to be so real that if people stood next to them, if they were really quiet, it would feel like they could hear them breathe. Because that is how lifelike the scriptures are to me. The scriptures are so three-dimensional, not just black lines and dots on a white page. They’re very vibrant and alive. Angela Working on One of Her Light of the World Sculptures What final wisdom would you share? If I could give a gift to every woman in the church, it would be to have them have this scintillating awareness of how magnificent they are. To really have the understanding of what it truly means to be a daughter of God and to have the sacred opportunity to be a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, or a friend, or a wife. So many times the arts are pointed to as the only really valid expression of talents, which I completely disagree with. Talents can be manifested in an intellectual pursuit, biological pursuit, gardening, whatever you love. It’s completely wide open. One of the greatest gifts and talents are those individuals that can listen to other people. I wish for women to truly know they have always existed, and that they will continue to exist into eternity. That everything we see around us is temporary. So many times we think, “If I don’t accomplish that in this life, I’ve failed,” just like I did with my music. But that’s not true. If we have a constant flow of love between the Godhead and ourselves, we are already in a powerful, successful frequency. It’s all so divinely guided because He knows our potential. Angela's Sculpture of the Apostle Thomas, "Reach in Faith" Do you miss opera at all? I do not miss it at all. In fact, when I perform or give a presentation now, I will sing one of my favorite hymns. The attention that my sculpting has received surpassed the whole thing with opera. It was opera arias that charmed me, it wasn’t necessarily the art form. I’ve had pneumonia and a couple of things as I’ve aged that have clipped my wings, so to speak, with the physicality that operatic arias take. But I am still blown away with how fast music can take the spirit straight to the heart. So when I want to create a feeling of an extra endowment of the spirit, I will start the presentation, instead of end it, with singing. At A Glance Name: Angela Johnson Age: 60 Location: Highland, Utah Marital History: Divorced Children: Four children, ages 40, 38, 35, 33 Occupation: Sculptor Schools Attended: Brigham Young University, Arizona State University Favorite Hymn: "I Stand All Amazed," and "The Lord is My Shepherd" Personal Website: http://ajsculptures.com/ Light of the World Garden: http://lightoftheworldgarden.com/ Interview Produced by Nollie Haws

Dr. Cynthia Owens knew from a young age that she wanted to go to medical school, serve a mission, and be a mother. With guidance from the Lord and from earthly mentors, and with the support of her family, she accomplished all three goals. In partnership with her husband, she has raised four children while working part-time as a pediatrician. Keeping balance in her life has been a matter of effort and prayer, but she has been inspired by prophetic counsel and by her patriarchal blessing to embrace the fullness life has to offer and take joy in it all. Tell me a little bit about your family growing up. Your father was a doctor, right? Yes, he was. He was a surgical oncologist and did a lot of research. I’m number five of six children and the only one who went into medicine. I have four great brothers and a sister with whom I’m very close. What was your process in choosing medicine? Well, it’s rather a long story! There have there been several blessings and pivotal experiences that have made going into medicine smoother for me. Perhaps the first one is something that I had no idea at the time would lead to medicine. When I was a sophomore in high school, a friend said off the cuff, “Oh, you ought to skip a grade.” For some reason, it resonated, and I didn’t know why, but I felt that I should. Later I had to make the difficult choice of whether or not I was going to go on a mission or go to medical school, and I felt like I should do both—having skipped a grade allowed me to do both. Going into medicine was a very different path than what you were expecting in high school. What made you want to go into medicine? In high school I thought I’d go into music, so the switch to medicine was very big for me. Also, at the time I chose to go into medicine, there really weren’t options of being a physician’s assistant or a nurse practitioner like there are today. It wasn’t so much that I was enamored with the idea of becoming a doctor—I had taught piano lessons when I was in high school and was even accepted into a music school after graduating early, so I thought that’s what I was going to do. But then I was asked to fill in for my dad’s secretary for a few days. It was so striking to me to see the difference between the attitude of my students—some of whom really didn’t want to be taking piano lessons—and my father’s patients, some of whom were literally dying to see him. They were hoping he could prolong their lives or cure them and I thought, “I want to be involved in helping people in a really meaningful way.” I know that performing music and teaching is a very meaningful way to help people, but at the time, the thought of being a doctor and helping people who desperately wanted help was very exciting. In my patriarchal blessing it said that “my soul would thrill with joy as I served.” As I was in my father’s office, I felt that joy and thought, “This is how I want to serve.” Cynthia Owens So how old were you when you made these decisions, both to serve a mission and to go into medicine? I had wanted to serve as a mission since I was about 12 years old. When I came to feel that I should go into medicine, I wasn’t sure how that would fit. When I turned twenty-one and was finally old enough to go on a mission, I was just graduating from college and applying to medical school. I had a strong spiritual impression that I should go on a mission. My father felt like medical school and training would be so long that I wouldn’t make through if I went on a mission, so he didn’t want me to go on a mission. I talked with my bishop who said, “I really can’t extend a call to you unless your father feels good about it.” I finally said, “I know that my next step is serving a mission, and if it means not going to medical school, then so be it.” But in my heart I really wanted to do both, so I actually applied to medical school and interviewed before I went on my mission. I ended up getting accepted to medical school when I was on my mission. Oh wow! Yeah! So I started three weeks after I got back. While I was still applying and was leaving to flying out for an interview, my sister said to me, “What are you doing? That school is so expensive, and you’ll have such a huge debt that you won’t be able to fulfill your dream of working part-time.” My only response was, “I just feel like I need to take the next step and that I need to go.” And it was absolutely remarkable, because not only did I get my acceptance to medical school while I was on my mission and they let me defer it a year, but my grandmother to my great surprise offered to pay for all of my medical school! Oh, that’s beautiful. And that also takes a lot of faith, not knowing what’s going to happen but feeling like it was right. One of my father’s favorite hymns was “Lead, Kindly Light” and that phrase, “one step enough for me” has been a theme in our family. Not “to see the distant scene,” but to take the next step and keep going forward. Were there any people outside of your family—any female mentors, perhaps—who shared their own experiences with you to give you perspective and help you keep moving forward? At that time—in the late 1970s—there weren’t that many female physicians, particularly not many with children or who were involved in the details of their children’s lives, and who were still married. So it was hard to find a role model. But my father found one for me, and that was Dr. Liz Hammond. She is a brilliant pathologist, and a very nurturing mother and a faithful LDS woman. I met her and she told me, “The most important determining factor in your having a happy family life and a career is the man you marry.” My husband, Doug, has made all the difference in helping me be able to have a happy family life and to have any balance. He’s been a huge influence. He’s a really unique, wonderful person and his parents also had a big influence on him. His mother was bright and stayed at home full-time when her children were home. She had great wisdom and ability and Doug’s father always respected her. Wayne had great respect for women. His fatherly advice before we got married was to make sure that my career was just as important as Doug’s. Which is unusual advice for a father-in-law to give. When I decided to marry Doug, it wasn’t so much because of a checklist of things we had in common. In addition to being attracted to him and loving him, I knew we shared a similar vision for what I wanted to do as a mother and as a woman. He felt that what I was setting out to do in medicine was important, and he also felt that what I could do in the home was important. So even though I didn’t know exactly how I wanted to work it out, I had faith in our future together. I had no idea that in the end he would end up sacrificing so much, but he has sacrificed to make my career possible, and I’d like to think that I’ve supported him too in reaching for his goals. He recently quit his law practice for 3 years to run for a political office. Cynthia and Doug on Their Wedding Day Is there any counsel that has been particularly meaningful to you? When President Benson had the special fireside for women in 1987 and called on mothers to come home and be at the crossroads, I was just one year into medical school and not married, but I tried to hear the counsel from the prophet with an eye of faith and an open heart, and I do believe his call was inspired. The principles he put forth are the ones I look back on often to try to keep perspective. On the other hand, there are also examples of prophets who called fathers away from their homes for years, when their wives had to be the sole support for their families. And we know that Brigham Young called certain women to leave their families to go back East to become doctors. I think of Ellis Shipp, for example. I also love the counsel from President Hinckley when he said, “It is the obligation of every woman of this church to get all the education she can. It will enlarge her life and increase her opportunities. It will provide her with marketable skills.” I personally think it’s important for every woman to seek divine guidance to know how she can use her time and talents to fill the measure of her creation and experience joy. No one knows like the Lord the gifts he has given us and for what end, or what opportunities will be ours and what burdens we may face. Choosing a career and deciding how to use the talents God has given us are challenging questions for any woman. Do you have any advice? I think how we make these decisions is about as individual as our fingerprints. But something that applies to all of us whether working inside or outside of our homes is that we are much more effective if we prioritize. It’s so easy to have our time sucked away! It’s a struggle for me. The other thing is to seek to know when the Lord would have us change our agendas and do something else. It’s important to be flexible. Cynthia and Her Daughter Were there any times that come to mind when you had to be led along in your path of wanting both a career in medicine and to be a mother? There were certainly some points along the way where I really had to reevaluate whether what I was doing what was right for me. While I was on my mission, I had a mission companion who was Austrian and took time off from medical school to go on a mission. So you might imagine we had some really interesting P-day discussions. The guidelines were different for missionaries outside of the US and what books they could bring, and one book she brought was Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Fielding Smith. There are some really interesting things in there about women using birth control—it’s very strongly stated that if we limit our children in this life we can’t expect to have eternal increase in the life to come. And we both said, “We’re going to follow the prophet. And if we can’t use birth control, we can’t make it through medical school if we end up getting married.” We didn’t see how we could finish medical school and be the kind of mothers we wanted. Cynthia and Her Young Family Birth control is a very sensitive subject inside and outside of the Church. What was helpful for you in grappling with this? It was helpful that we had a wise mission president. When we told him we had decided we weren’t going to go into medicine because of this particular statement by Joseph Fielding Smith, he was very loving and respected our desire to be obedient, but counseled us, “You know, we can’t live in fear of what the future might hold. You have both felt that medicine is the course you should take with your life, and you shouldn’t stop just out of fear of the future.” And so that gave us both encouragement. I’m sure there has been a lot of uncertainty in your life as you’ve figured out how to balance your family and medical career. Yes, absolutely. For example, after Doug and I were engaged, he was at a more prestigious law school than my medical school, I tried to transfer to his school so he wouldn’t have to leave it. But the Dean of the Medical School said they didn’t accept transfer students. I remember just pouring my heart out to the Lord and promising him that if he would allow me to transfer and go to that school then I would not get caught up in any prestige it might bring. I promised that I would be willing at any point to quit my career and care for my family if it became too much of a conflict. And that’s always been a really important promise that I hold in my heart. I was able to transfer and be at the same school as Doug for the first year of our marriage. Then he graduated a year before I did and moved to Washington, D.C. while I finished school in Connecticut. That was the first time in our marriage when we commuted. We later commuted between Oregon and Utah when I was finishing my residency. It has not been a marriage of convenience. There has been sacrifice on both sides, certainly. So when did you start having a family? What guided you in that process of being a mother, wife, and doctor? When I got married, I wanted to keep the promise I had made with my mission companion that I wouldn’t use birth control unless I felt guided to. When it was time to make that decision, it felt absolutely clear that the Lord was fine with our choice to use birth control. About a year later, in my last year of medical school, I told Doug that I was really baby-hungry and wanted a baby, but it didn’t make any sense. I was going into my internship, and that is the hardest year of all the medical training. We decided it didn’t make sense to get pregnant then, but two or three months later we were surprised to find I was pregnant! I graduated seven months pregnant, but had another critical decision to make about whether to continue. The Owens Family Was there anyone who helped you in that decision-making process? I am very close to my older sister, and her example and insight were very helpful to me. I thought that since babies sleep a lot in their first year of life, maybe it would be less important to be home a lot then compared to the second year when the baby would be running around and interacting a lot. But my sister said to me, “No. It is critical for you as a new mother to embrace that role and be able to love it.” And I’m so grateful to my sister, because I wouldn’t have understood that. What happened when interviewers found out you were pregnant? Did you let them know about how you wanted to be both a mother and a doctor? I was just applying to residency programs when I first suspected I was pregnant. I was literally going in for interviews and didn’t want to lie if they asked when I was going to have children. (It was illegal, but they asked.) I bought my pregnancy test on the way home from the interviews. I really struggled with what to do. I will never forget exactly the moment it came to me. I was sitting in front of the Washington Monument, and it became clear to me that I should withdraw my applications. When I told Doug he said, “You know, I don’t want you to quit pursuing this dream because of me. I don’t want you to be angry at me later.” And I said, “No, this is not from any pressure from you at all. I feel incredible peace about this.” I remember later that night, waking up in the middle of the night and thinking, “What am I so happy about? What is it I feel such peace about?” I called to withdraw my application the next day and said, “I’m withdrawing my application but I’m going to reapply next year” and explained why. One of the residency program directors said her baby was due the day after mine and invited me to go and interview anyway to see what I thought of the program. They were not the most prestigious program, but they offered me a guaranteed position for the following year. Eventually I was able to create my own part-time residency program. I was able to work full-time until I had my baby and then work one night a week in the ER for the rest of the year and then go back part-time. I was the first resident who had a part-time residency in that program and they ended up having a lot of people go part-time there after me. You led the way. That’s really neat. But of course it hasn’t been easy. Like I said, there have been many times I have re-evaluated whether or not I would continue working part-time. There was a time in my residency program where I really felt like it was hurting my family too much and I told the Lord I was done and that it was fine and I’d be happy to stay home. And I even went in to tell my senior resident that I was going to quit my internship. He was a spiritual person—a Seventh Day Adventist—and he asked me to pray about it again. And I’m so grateful he did because I prayed again and the answer was “No” to my surprise. It would have been easier and simpler to quit, but I was one month away from finishing my internship and being able to get my medical license, and it was very clear to me that the Lord wanted me to go back again the next day and keep doing it. I finished my internship, but four months later after my second son was born, I actually did withdraw from the program. The program offered to give me a leave of absence, but I didn’t know how long I’d need to be gone. The residents I worked with gave me their condolences and said, “You would have been a really good doctor. We’re so sorry you’re giving this up.” That would be crushing to hear. It was hard because I didn’t feel in my heart I was giving it up, I just knew that at that time I had to stop. It was a relief though to know I was doing what was right for me and my family and I loved being able to just focus on my family. I did end up going back after three years, but it’s interesting that it was Doug who sensed I needed to go back and finish my residency when it was time. I was home full-time for a year, then worked for two years 9-5 two days a week. After we had our third baby, Doug offered to stay home full-time with our children so we could have a parent at home teaching them and so we could stay close. Doug was in a demanding law practice in DC and he took a ton of flak from other lawyers when he said he was quitting to stay at home with the kids. That was very unusual, especially back then. But he stayed home full-time when our children were one, three, and five years old. I took all my hardest rotations right up front so I could get back to the swing of the hospital and residency program. After about three months I realized I had not fixed dinner once, I had not done any laundry, I hadn’t done anything to help around the house. I was really taken aback because I remembered how grateful I was when Doug would come home and I needed a break after being home all day. I told him I was so sorry I hadn’t given him a break. He was amazing and told me, “Whenever you’re home, I just want you to be with us. I can do that—I can do these other household things. I just want you to be with us.” And I thought, “Did I ever feel that way when I was home?” He’s been a huge support. Cynthia and Doug Like you said, who you ended up marrying mattered so much, not just for your family, but for your career. You help each other find focus and perspective, and that’s beautiful. Yes, but it’s also important not to think that there will be one perfect day where everything will be balanced. When I was younger, I often thought, “Oh, once my kids are in school, I’ll get up extra early, and I can do it all.” And the truth is, I’ve learned I can’t. I’m grateful for the opportunities that I have, but my house is probably messier than most and everything doesn’t get done and I wish that I had more time to be with each one of my children. I work two long days a week and it’s still a struggle. Doug is helpful. He says, “If you haven’t finished those charts, if you haven’t finished those calls, just come home and see our children.” It’s a daily battle to keep balance, trying to know how I’m supposed to be doing it best today. There are some things that have to fall off the wagon that don’t get done quite as well, and we have to choose. But another quote from President Hinckley I love is, “You are doing the best you can, and that best results in good to yourself and to others. Do not nag yourself with a sense of failure. Get on your knees, and ask for the blessings of the Lord then stand on your feet and do what you’re asked to do. Then leave the matter in the hands of the Lord.” With all the opportunities and blessings that we have in this day, it’s easy to think that we have to be perfect, but something has to give, even if we are home full-time. The house is not going to be perfectly clean, we are not going to be there on time to pick up our children every single time, and we just have to do our best and His grace is sufficient. When we turn it over to the Lord, I feel like it works out well enough. Thank you so much for all the wisdom and experiences you’ve already shared. Is there anything else you would like to talk about before we end the interview? Something I’ve been thinking about recently (and during this interview) is a line in my patriarchal blessing, and I think it is a beautiful mantra for all women. It says, “Go forth with vigor in your womanhood, enjoying life to the fullest.” I really feel that’s true. I shouldn’t try to limit what I try to do for fear of what challenges there might be in the future. And it’s so hard to know sometimes how to juggle everything, but I think that admonition from the Lord to me to live life to the fullest and go forth with vigor in my womanhood—particularly womanhood—has been a source of joy. I feel like women connect with our hearts in such a special way. I love the sisterhood we have in Relief Society and I’m so close to my sister and my mother and so many wonderful women in my life and it just seems like sisterhood is unlike anything else. And I’m so grateful to be a woman, especially with all the opportunities we have today. And I’m so grateful for the gospel to guide me in these days, because I don’t think that I could have the perspective that I do without the gospel. Cynthia Owens For you, what is womanhood and what does it mean to you to be a daughter of God? Sometimes it’s easy to think about what our womanhood isn’t. And I think first and foremost we should remember that we are children of God. And to know that He absolutely loves us and has blessed us with talents. He wants us to go forth and live life to the fullest, whether we are a man or a woman. And I do feel that as women we are given unique ways of communicating and showing our love and I think motherhood is part of that. But I think that ultimately, it comes down to being a daughter of God. I feel that He loves me; He knows me. Just like my father encouraged me to go into medicine because of who I am, I felt like my Father in Heaven recognized all that I could be, which is not just a doctor or a mother. He wants us to have joy in it all. At A Glance Name: Cynthia Owens Age: 55 Location: Millcreek, Utah Marital History: Married to Doug Owens since 1988 Children: Three boys (27, 25, 23) one girl (18) Occupation: Pediatrician Schools Attended: University of Utah, BYU Study Abroad in Austria, Reed College (graduated with BA in biology), Temple University Medical School, Yale University School of Medicine (graduated 1990 with MD), University of Maryland Medical System, Oregon Health Sciences University (completed pediatric residency) Languages Spoken at Home: English (Learned German on mission) Favorite Hymn: I Need Thee Every Hour, Lead Kindly Light Interview Produced by Megan Armknecht

Merrecia James discovered her passion for running at an early age, as she navigated growing up in Jamaica. Running was an escape from poverty and from sexual assault, and provided a door to immigration and education in the United States. Merrecia always had a strong belief in God, but it wasn’t until she was introduced to yoga and the Gospel that she connected with the peace and happiness of the spirit. Since her baptism, Merrecia has found joy in sharing the simple truths of the Gospel with everyone around her. She seeks to use her gift of running to glorify God and share His love. What was it like growing up in Jamaica? Growing up in Jamaica was a very rewarding experience. My dad died when I was two years old, so I grew up with a single mother. She always said I should put God first in everything. She prayed a lot with me and set an example of seeking and wanting to find truth. She’s a great mother. She wasn’t there financially. She only had a primary school education. She can read and write, but not at a high level. When I was twelve, I started doing track and field. I realized I could run and I saw an avenue to making money. I would run road races and win money. Not a lot, but enough to take care of basic needs for me and my mom. I was almost like a mother and my mother was almost like a daughter to me. I wanted to be an example. My mother was 7th Day Adventist, so she attended church on Saturdays. My track meets were also always on Saturdays. I tried to go to church with my mom, but there was something that didn’t click with me. What they were telling me in the church didn’t make sense with what they were doing outside of church. So I didn’t listen to them. I started going to Sunday church since I ran on Saturdays, but I wanted to feel the presence of the Lord. The church was right at the foot of the hill where I was living. Then, I started going to both churches just to please my mother. That didn’t work, so I stopped. Track took me away, but I would always read my Bible no matter what. I prayed every single day. I was emotionally satisfied by the tropics, wildlife, nature, and everything around me. I was always happy and cheery. I would go to the woods and the beaches and just stay there by myself in solitude. I loved animals. I had a dog and a cat. I was very observant as a child. I would take my dog to the river. One day I saw the dog moving in the water. At the time I didn’t know how to swim. I started to follow him doing paddles, dog paddles. That’s how I learned how to swim. Merrecia James and Her Mother What kinds of difficulties did you face when you were young? I grew up in poverty. I didn’t have food to eat on many days and I would just drink water. It is difficult to go to school because most people can’t afford it, so there is a lot of illiteracy. A lot of girls drop out of high school, turn to men, and get pregnant. The fathers don’t stay around to take care of the girls and babies. My teachers encouraged me to put dedication first. I saw that I could drop out and do those things based on peer pressure or I could choose dedication. I was sexually abused as a child. The first time was when I was seven years old. I was going to the river, to the beach, and this boy grabbed me and fondled me. I used to walk from school because I didn’t have money to take the bus. One night, there was a boy riding a bike. There was a ditch in the road and he pushed me in. I fought. While he was taking off his clothes, I kicked him and got away and ran. Another time, I was driving in a taxi. In Jamaica, it’s a common thing for taxi drivers to take kids away, abuse them, and kill them. I was suspicious when this driver kept looking back at me. I felt it. He was about to turn off on a road. I said to myself, “if he is going to turn off, I will jump out of the car.” So, I was waited for the turn because the car had to slow down. I couldn’t scream. When he turned, I opened the car door, left my bag, jumped out, and rolled. I started running nonstop. I don’t know how I got home, but I ran and I ran and I ran. My last experience was when I was living with a family who had been helping me. I was about sixteen. The father of the lady who took me in would try to interfere with me. I was really scared. I reported it to the woman, but nothing came out of it. She felt embarrassed to talk with her dad. I spoke to her grandmother and the grandmother said it was a common thing for him with the housemaids. He had done it before, but I never let him. I always fought, but I had nowhere to go. There was this one night when no one was home, but this man and the grandmother. He came in my room and he tried to fondle me. I was fighting, fighting, fighting. I was going to run away. That night I started developing panic attacks. I was just not myself. Around this time, I got a running scholarship and ended up coming to the United States. I left Jamaica during that transition and in that trauma. Merrecia James You have a strong spirit. Could you tell me about your schooling and how that led to coming to America? I was not great in English because we spoke a dialect called Patoi—broken English. I wasn’t a reader. I didn’t know books. I had never seen a book. I had a very smart neighbor. She got into the best high schools and colleges. I decided I wanted to be like her. During my last year of high school, I told her I wanted to do the spelling bee competition. She helped me prepare. I started reading her books. She was into physics and the sciences. That’s where I got the love for science. I read her books and I liked it. She helped me along the way. I went to a sports college before I came here. I did two years of sports college because I got a scholarship. I represented my country. The idea was to attend that college in Jamaica and then get a scholarship to the United States. I loved the sciences. I wanted to be a nurse because nursing school was easier to get into. I did a lot of credits towards physical education and kinesiology. I got a lot of offers from many schools in the United States—Louisiana State, New Mexico, Wyoming, and Maryland Eastern Shore. I accepted all the offers. I signed the letter of intent to all the schools. I was so naïve and didn’t know what I was doing. I planned to go to Wyoming University, but the coach from the Maryland Eastern Shore said, “You can’t do that because you signed the letter of intent here first.” He wasn’t being really honest to me. He was just intimidating me. I didn’t have a clue and I really wanted the opportunity, so I said ok. I called the coach from Wyoming University and explained the situation. The Wyoming coach said he wasn’t going to be in any fight and told me I would have to sit out a year before I could run there, so I went with Maryland Eastern Shore. My coach told me there would be a lot of Kenyans on the team. When I came, there were only two Kenyans, me, and another 400 meter runner. He didn’t even have a team. I wasn’t happy. I went through the motions. I majored in exercise science because I already had enough credits, but it wasn’t really what I wanted to do. It was still rewarding to be in the country getting a degree. I was happy for the opportunity. I applied to physical therapy school when I was done and I got accepted to a doctorate program. Merrecia James What happened after you left the University of Maryland? I went through another trauma. I was married. It wasn’t a good marriage. He cheated on me the day of my graduation. There was a lot of trauma. I had decided to become a physical therapist because it was the closest I could get to medicine or nursing and I was already accepted. The first semester was not good. I was able to do ok. I just couldn’t concentrate. I was even driving on the wrong side of the road. That’s how bad it was. I dropped out after that first semester. I decided to become a physician’s assistant instead because that was what I really wanted to do. Medicine had been my dream since I could recall at five years old. During that last semester I took 28 credits to complete the prerequisites for a new program, but I had to wait for one year to complete them and get 1000 hours of healthcare experience. During that year, I worked as a cardiac monitor technician. I went to Chicago for Physician’s Assistant school because it was the cheapest for me. $10,000 compared to $90,000. I just didn’t have the money. I refused to run professionally at the time and focused on my studies because I was injured and I realized that a stable career would help me more. I knew I could resume running later. My transition from physical education to spirituality was in Chicago. Immediately after I got there, everything started spiritually. I got into yoga because I had bursitis in my knee and I couldn’t walk. My teacher recommended yoga or swimming to help. I had never done yoga. There was a yoga studio next to the Starbucks I went to everyday. It was called Brain Management. I went in there one day because I was fascinated with the brain and was surprised when it turned out to be yoga. It was for the body, mind, spirit, and brain. After three weeks of yoga, my bursitis was completely gone. In 2014, the missionaries knocked at my door. It was in the Spanish community and I happened to get two Spanish elders. They asked if I knew about the church or The Book of Mormon. I told them I didn’t know anything about the Gospel. They showed me the Plan of Salvation diagram and asked me to read The Book of Mormon. They invited me to come to church. It was in Spanish and I don’t speak Spanish. They said come anyway and feel the spirit. I was still in PA school. I was on my rotations and my days were very long, so meeting with them was inconsistent. They would text me scriptures and ask if I would like to meet. They invited the sisters to visit me because I would be more comfortable with them. I really liked having the sisters visit. They were an English-speaking companionship and there was a ward where I could go for Institute. The sisters kept telling me I should pray and read about the book. I said yes, but it was a long time before I actually did. There was something special about these sisters. They prayed every time they came and I felt something nice, but I felt the same thing in yoga. I couldn’t understand what it was. One of the sisters was in my area for ten weeks. Normally they would leave after six weeks, but this sister said she was not giving up on me. So I read the book. They invited other people to come and I loved it. I would go with them to visit other sisters who were investigating the church. After, they told me I must read, so I read one night. After I read that night I started having visions. Then I didn’t read again. I read another night and had visions. Each time I read it I had visions. And of course Joseph Smith, he had a lot of visions. There was something special about this book. I really like it. They invited me to pray and ask if it is true. I prayed. They invited me to be baptized and asked me to pray if a specific date was the right time to get baptized. They felt it was the right date and I said no. I was a little resistant. I said, “Sister, I really like the church, but I don’t understand how this yoga feeling and this church feeling are the same.” The sister said, “You’re only going to get more of the feeling!” They asked me to pray for myself. I promised I would. For two months no sisters came. I prayed. I wanted an answer for when I was going to get baptized. I decided if this book was really true, I would pray for a specific thing. I prayed for Heavenly Father to please send me a person in the church who practiced yoga like me and who I could train with. I didn’t know if anyone in the church practiced yoga like me. Two weeks later, I went to a yoga retreat. I went into my room and I introduced myself to my roommate. She introduced herself and said, “By the way, I’m a Mormon.” I was surprised. I responded, “You’re a Mormon!” She said normally she doesn’t tell people she is a Mormon and she usually doesn’t have roommates because she prays and not everyone is open to prayer. She would always get a room by herself, but this time she felt like she should try a roommate. I shared that I was investigating the church and I got my answer to get baptized. I finally told the sisters I was ready to get baptized. They visited with me three times a week leading up to baptism. That’s how I got converted. Merrecia James It is amazing to hear how God answered your prayer. How has your life been different since your baptism? Since getting baptized, I’ve put everything in God’s hands. I was spiritual before baptism, since I already believed in Jesus Christ and I had yoga. The church gave me an opportunity to test my faith. I went through a lot of struggles. I’ve had more temptations than ever before, but it’s been very rewarding. I can see a shift in myself and my family. I see a connection with the younger generation. They are more open to the Gospel even though they don’t go to church. I can see how it has blessed my life with opportunities to keep seeking for truth. I can always have the comforter with me. I can tune into it all the time. It doesn’t matter what I am going through because once I tune into it, everything feels ok. The Gospel changed my life in a positive way. I’ve had opportunities to meet different people. The support I have received throughout the church and my spiritual growth has been shifted. I feel more happy and content. I had those things before, but now it’s more pure. It makes me want to keep going and share it with other people. Merrecia James How do try to share that peace and pureness with other people? I share my inspiration of how I learned about the Gospel everywhere I go. It’s just natural. People tell me everything about them. They open up to me and that brings me comfort to share. Sometimes it’s simple things. Just sharing my testimony or a song or a scripture. It doesn’t have to be big, like telling them to come to church. They feel something and I will give them a Book of Mormon. They see a shift and I see a shift. It doesn’t matter where I am. If I feel the spirit to share, then I share it. People are open to it and don’t turn to rejection. Recently, I was at work at a massage place. A young lady had been sharing some things with me. I shared The Book of Mormon song that I wrote. I asked if she would like a copy of the book and she declined. So I shared a song. She was more open to the song. I shared some more about the church. Then I looked outside and saw two elders come in. I got them and asked them to share their testimonies. They gave her the restoration pamphlet. It just happened. It was amazing. She will never forget it. She shared it with everyone. Her friends told her it was meant to be. She said she felt something different. People feel the spirit through simple things. Merrecia James I love how you listen to the spirit and are willing to share the Gospel anywhere. You seem to connect the Gospel with all aspects of your life. Have you seen any parallels between the Gospel and running? Growing up, I didn’t have anything. I didn’t have any financial support, but I had the talent. It was a way to get money. I didn’t run for the exposure. The Bible says you should develop your talents. I saw running as a path to take me through life. It’s running that got me here since I wanted to go to the Olympics. My mom said she would help support my dream. I took a nine-year break from running after college. After I was baptized in Chicago, I didn’t know what to do with the Gospel. One night I prayed and asked what do I do now? What can I share? I saw Jesus in my dream running next to me. My interpretation was that I needed to run for Jesus and share this Gospel. I didn’t want to run to beat people, but I needed to develop a fitness where I could run to the level where I could reach many people. I thought about going to the Olympics. I was running for myself and for the Lord. I pray that I can use running to help share the Gospel. I don’t know what the future is, but I know the time will come when I can use running to share the Gospel. For most runners, everything is about competition and winning, but now it is spiritual for me. While connecting the church and temple to life, I decided to do an experiment. I set a goal to do something for 21 days to overcome certain limits. In science and goal-setting, we understand that whatever the mind can see and believe it will achieve. If you tell your mind you can do it, you can. If you tell your mind you cannot do it, you cannot. Whatever you tell your mind you can or cannot do is going to happen. The same is true with praying with real intent. It is the same application. My mom was taking her citizenship examination. She needed to answer ten questions correctly. I decided that while was she was taking her test, I was going to run ten times up a specific hill as a symbol, just like there is symbolism in the temple. The intention was to help uplift her since she is connected to me. My energy would go to her. I was taking action and it was really hard. The extra ten hills was a threshold I had to push past. My intention was that if I ran ten times up this hill without stopping, she would get ten questions right. I ran and I ran. I was so tired! It was no joke running because I already did my training and I was pushing myself more. I ran up and dragged down and ran up again. I told myself, “You cannot stop.” I went up the ninth hill and stopped. I started again, but it wasn’t continuous. My mom called me an hour later to tell me she passed. I asked how many questions she got right. She said nine. I replied, “You must be kidding. You know I was running those hills ten time for you. On the ninth hill I stopped and you got nine right. But I said I’m going to seal the deal.” Merrecia James What a wonderful example of the symbolism of the Gospel we see in life. Are there any last thoughts you want to share? I would say that everyone has a path for themselves, but this Gospel is really true. The Atonement comes from you knowing with your own experience. No one can share that for you because it is very unique to each person, but it is truth. You can find truth only through experience. I will share that with anyone who has resistance to the Gospel or just wants to know for themselves. It is available. They can try different things and see what works, but the Gospel, you have to experience it and find out for you. I can share that it’s real and there are many ways out there, but this is real. It is real. I’ve experimented in different ways, but the Gospel, it is unchangeable. At A Glance Name: Merrecia James Age: 32 Location: Virginia Marital History: Divorced, single Occupation: Licensed massage therapist, Physician's assistant Convert to Church?: January 31, 2015 Schools Attended: GC Foster College, Jamaica; University of Maryland Eastern Shore; Malcom X College, Illinois; St. Francis University, Pennsylvania Favorite Hymn: Have I Done Any Good in the World Today featuring Alex Boye and Carmen Rasmussen Herbert Interview Produced by Anne Leishman Merrell

Julie Grygla is the mother of six children under five years old. She and her husband achieved their first pregnancy with the help of fertility treatment, and gave birth to triplet boys. When their triplets were only five months old, Julie became pregnant spontaneously with twin girls, who were followed not long after by a baby boy. Their journey has carried them through many unexpected challenges, but Julie has depended on revelation and patience as she has navigated the abundance of motherhood one step at a time. Her own mother passed away unexpectedly while Julie was in graduate school, before her marriage. Julie has learned how to turn an isolated mourning into a connection with her mother and with God, both of whom she feels increasingly guiding her as her children grow older. Listen to this interview at the Mormon Women Project podcast, available on all platforms. Tell me a little bit about your family growing up. I’m the ninth of eleven kids. I have seven older brothers, one older sister and then two younger brothers. We grew up in a 1500 square foot house in San Diego, so you know we were on top of each other a lot. We had a very minimalist house, right? My mom didn’t do a lot of kitschy things. We had house plants on top of our piano, a coffee table with a lamp, and family pictures on the wall. But literally there was nothing in the house. I thought, “Oh, well my mom just doesn’t like stuff,” but the truth was that she had so many people in the house she just couldn’t have anything else. The Bradshaw Family Did you always plan on having a big family? It sort of cycled for me. When I was in sixth grade, I was chosen to speak at my commencement because I had written an essay with the prompt, “What does the future hold for me?” I had written that I wanted to be a mother and that being a mother was the most noble thing you could do, one of the hardest jobs. At the tender age of twelve, I felt on a really basic level the love that my mother had for us and for what she did. Of course as I went through puberty those feelings became much more complicated. I started having dreams for myself. I wanted to go to New York City, I wanted to go away to college, I wanted to do all these things, and my parents were just not super supportive because they thought, “Well, why do you need to do those things? You should just want to be a mom.” It was super frustrating for me, and I started being really critical of the path that my mother had taken. “You never did anything! You never went to school!” I remember we had it out one day, and she said, “You know, you really hurt my feelings when you constantly say that you don’t want to be just a mother. That’s all I’ve done with my life. And for you to say that that’s not good enough after I’ve dedicated my life to it…” I’m sure that I had hurt her for years before then, but this was the first time she told me how it made her feel. I felt horrible. Julie and Her Mother That was in my mid-20s, and I had sort of decided I didn’t want to get married. I had all these other things I wanted to do. At that point I had just started graduate school, I was living in D.C., and was finally getting the life that I had wanted, that I felt my parents had denied me. Then my mom reigned me in, and it was the first time I reevaluated what I wanted out of my life. But it was complicated—I was single and I didn’t have a lot of dating prospects because I was in graduate school full time, and I was working full time. It was a very slow shift for me. When I was younger I always thought, “Oh yeah, I want nine kids,” And then in my 20s it was, “Oh I don’t want any kids.” When I got married, I thought, “I know I should want to have kids, but I kind of don’t want to have kids.” And honestly it wasn’t even until I almost lost the triplets that I realized how badly I actually wanted to be a mother, and that me saying that I didn’t want kids was really me afraid of saying, yet again, that I wanted something that was going to be denied me. Tell me about your mom. You lost her quite young, before you were even married. Yes. We’re coming up on eight years, and even though we had rocky points in our relationship, we really had a relationship that most daughters don’t get to have with their moms. When I was in high school, they closed campus for lunch, and I had been going home for lunch for three years. I didn’t even know where any of my friends sat for lunch. And my mom, on the days that she could, would meet me at the edge of campus and we would sit on this grass patch together and we’d chat. I didn’t even worry that people would think it was lame—because she was my mom, but she was my friend. Even when I moved to D.C., we talked every day, we messaged all the time, we were just really close. We went to England together, and then the next year we went to India together. You know, she died in the MTC—she and my dad were on their way to serve in Belgium and it was going to be the most disconnected I had ever been from my mother. I was so nervous about not being able to talk to her every day, or even once a week. But I remember writing in my journal, “I’m excited to see what these 18 months will bring where I’m not in constant communication with my mother.” After she died I went back and found that, and I was like, “I take it back! I take it back! I don’t want to know what it’s like without her!” Julie and Her Mother What were you doing when all of this happened? I moved out to D.C. thinking that I needed to get away, do something new and be on my own. So I worked there for a year as a legal secretary, which is how I put myself through college. I went to George Mason and studied English Literature. As part of that I studied two summers in England. It was idyllic. Then I finished and I really had no idea what I wanted to do! So I stayed working at the law firm, and when all of this went down I had actually started another master’s program in Education. I had finally decided to put down roots in Virginia and start my teaching career. I was in the middle of that master’s program when my parents left on their mission, and I got the phone call from my dad that my mom had passed out in the MTC cafeteria. He’d taken her to the hospital and they didn’t really know what was happening, but it was fairly serious. After her surgery I got on the phone with her and she was barely coherent. I was out on a plane the next morning. From the time she was admitted to the hospital to the time she died was only about a week. I never could have married Dave without losing my mom, because I never would have been brought down low enough to seek help. My faith was so damaged after my mom died, Heavenly Father knew I didn’t have the strength to be on my knees and ask him for help. So he sent me to a counselor who got me on the right path—although I had to relearn all those lessons when I became a parent! But that’s how it is, right? You master something in one phase and Heavenly Father says, “Good, let’s put a rubber stamp on that. On to phase two!” Julie and Her Family at Her Mother's Funeral. Her Mother Passed Away While Attending the MTC, Preparing to Serve a Mission with Her Husband in Belgium. When you and Dave got married, what were your discussions around kids? I was 31 and Dave was 42 when we got married. On the last day of our honeymoon, we went to these beautiful hot springs in Costa Rica and we knew we were about to head home and begin real life as a married couple. We started talking about what we wanted for ourselves. Before we married, I had planned to be on birth control for at least a year because from the time I met him to when we got married was only five months. So I wanted time. But as we were talking it became very clear that we were not to wait. Neither one of us knew why. We felt really strongly that day that there were three spirits who were anxiously waiting to come to our home. We were so excited about it and said, “Why would we wait?” Julie Married Her Husband Dave When She Was 31 and He Was 42. Julie Was an English Professor, and Dave was a Family Practice Doctor. So we came home, I went off of birth control and . . . nothing. I was having some pretty severe abdominal pain at the same time, and we really didn’t know—we thought I had celiac, we were taking all of these blood tests and nothing was adding up. Eventually Dave diagnosed me with polycystic ovarian syndrome. He got my on the right medication and all of my symptoms started resolving, but we still couldn’t get pregnant. So, we tried the first round of fertility stuff and did Clomid for 6 months, with no success. We finally decided to see a reproductive endocrinologist, and following his plan we got pregnant, but then I miscarried. People all said, “Oh, I’m so sorry,” but I was just happy I actually got pregnant. So we took a month off to let my body recover and then at the end of the summer, we were ready to try again—and we turned up pregnant. I was supposed to run the St. George marathon and I woke up so sick. I said, “David, I’m only seven or eight weeks pregnant and I cannot believe how sick I am.” He suggested we go down to the clinic to take a look. He turned on the ultrasound machine and all of the sudden I saw, “There’s two sacks—We’re having twins! I’m so excited!” I thought, “Ok this is a hitch in my natural birthing plans, but we can totally do this!” and he was just silent. I said, “You’re not saying anything,” and he said, “Um… it’s not twins,” and then he focused on the bigger of the two sacks and all of the sudden I was like, “Oh no,” and I burst into tears. I was devastated. I don’t even feel bad because now that I know as many triplet moms as I do, it’s a very normal reaction to have. Dave was thrilled. He said, “These are the three spirits we felt at the end of our honeymoon!” And I was like, “I didn’t want them to come all at once!” So we immediately got on with the high risk OB, and I was getting monitored every couple of weeks. Then a ll of the sudden I felt like, “Wait! I don’t know if I even want to be a mom! Do I really want to do this?” I think I was so afraid of losing the pregnancy that I did not let myself get attached to it. At 18 ½ weeks the fluid suddenly was measuring a little bit alarmingly between our identical twins. I had already read about twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome—after one more day of measurements they said it was definitely going in that direction. Then two days later I went into labor at 19 weeks. When we got to the hospital and they found out I was funneling, Dave just was ashen. In his mind we were going to lose the babies. But he didn’t want to say anything to me. They went into emergency measures. They start me on mag, they schedule an emergency cerclage for the next morning. When I woke up from my cerclage surgery, Dave was kneeling at my bedside sobbing—I had never seen him really cry like that before. He was praying that God would spare our children, and it was only then that I knew there was a very small chance that they would survive. As soon as they got me stable, we put a loveseat in the back of the minivan we had just purchased, and Dave drove me to Los Angeles to have surgery to save my twin boys. When we got there and they ultrasounded me, they basically said that my little Christian was about 24 hours from dying if we didn’t have this surgery, and even if we did have this surgery there was only a 50/50 chance that he would make it. So the next day we had the surgery and I spent the night in the hospital. That was the worst night of my pregnancy, because I was all alone in this little county hospital in Los Angeles on the labor and delivery floor, and they didn’t even want me there and kept trying to steal my IV. It was just horrible. It was at that moment I realized what I wanted. I prayed, “Heavenly Father, I want to be a mother. And I want to be a mother to these boys.” And all night, that’s what I prayed. I wasn’t at a point of praying regularly at this point, because I was still only a couple of years out from my mom’s death, and I really wasn’t sure that if I prayed, God wasn’t just going to do what He wanted to do anyway. Even though I had been praying my whole life, I totally misunderstood the whole point of prayer. I thought if I prayed hard enough, God would give me whatever it was I was praying with so much faith for. The next day we had our ultrasound and Christian’s heart was completely back to normal. I delivered at 30 weeks. My “big boys”—3 pounds and 3 ½ pounds—were in the NICU for six weeks, and then Christian was in for eight weeks. Now they’re four years old and they never stop talking. Julie and Dave with Their Triplet Newborns Who was your village through all of that, especially with the long NICU stays? Who was taking care of your family? Everybody was super afraid of overwhelming me in the NICU. When I was finally well enough to go back to church, people said, “Oh we’ve wanted to stop by!” I was like, “Please, come by! Hold a baby! Please! They need to be held!” I would hold all three of them whenever I could, but it’s hard. It was long, long days trying to give skin to skin. Then once the word got out, there were a handful of ward members that came regularly. Actually now that I think about it, those are the ladies that are my people. Their kids were all grown up and out of the house, so they had time to come, and they’re still the ladies that come over and visit and sit with us at church. I didn’t realize until then that the way you form bonds with people is by letting them serve you. And sure, could I have held all the babies by myself all the time? Sure. But it was better for me to have these ladies come and spend their time holding my babies, bonding with my babies, bonding with me. They’d show up at my front door and hold a baby and send me to bed, or whatever. Hiking with the Triplets If you could give some advice to the compassionate service leaders reading this, what did you need? Did you want people to just call you up and say, “I’m coming over?” No. I just wanted them to show up. If they had called me, I would have said, “No, we’re fine. We’re okay.” But it was when they were listening to the spirit and they followed a prompting of “We should stop by and see the Gryglas,” that I would open the door in tears because things had just started falling apart. My postpartum depression was probably a solid six months after the triplets were born, which is very complicated because by that point I was pregnant with the twins. The first two years of motherhood were really really hard. I looked at pictures from the girls’ baby blessing the other day and I look horrible. I just think about how tired I was and how wonderful it would have been if someone had said, “I’m gonna come sleep on your couch and why don’t you leave the non-nursing baby with me?” That would have been really great. Bringing meals, finding a way to kidnap an overwhelmed mom to take her to lunch or to get her nails done. You really just have to either know the person really well, or be praying really hard to know what to do, because I was so exhausted that most of the time I didn’t even know what I needed enough to ask for help. I was a first-time mom, and had no idea what I was even supposed to be doing. Julie and Dave with Their Triplet Boys and Twin Girls When you found out you were pregnant with your twins, your triplets were five months old. How did you feel? Did you feel the same way that you felt when you found out about the triplets? No. When I was fifteen weeks pregnant with the triplets, my husband woke me up in the middle of the night and said, “I thought you were having a bad dream—you were yelling, ‘No! No! No!’” I started laughing, and I said, “David, I was dreaming that we had just found out we were pregnant with twin girls and the boys were 15 months old.” And he goes, “Honey, that is not a dream, that is a nightmare.” After the triplets were born we thought, “Well, we’d like to have one more.” It had taken us 18 months with fertility to get pregnant with the boys, so we thought we’d just let what happened happen, and if nothing happened in a year we’d look into fertility again. I really didn’t want to do fertility because I didn’t think I could handle another set of multiples. So when I had this wave of nausea, I thought, “Noooo. There is no way.” And then that night, Dave said, “Honey, you are glowing today!” and I’m like, “That’s it! I’m taking a test!” I went in and took the pregnancy test. I totally expected it to be negative—do you know how many negative pregnancy tests I had taken? I looked down and it said “Pregnant.” And then I started doing the math and I’m like, “Twin girls…” I walked out and I handed the test to Dave. After I convinced him it wasn’t a joke, he just looked at me and said, “It’s gonna be twin girls, isn’t it?” and I said, “Yep.” So we just sort of braced ourselves for it. We did the ultrasound, and they were like, “It’s twins!” We said, “We know.” Then they did the gender scan, “It’s girls!” “We know.” Visiting Julie's Mother's Grave with the Triplets and Twins I really feel like the Lord prepared us for every single one of our pregnancies, because if I hadn’t known way, way beforehand, I would have felt like a victim. Instead I just felt God’s love. You make all sorts of promises with God when you want something badly, you start bargaining, but we really felt what we said in our prayers, “Heavenly Father, we will take as many spirits as you have to send to us. We’ll take as many as you want. We’ll take ‘em. Because we realize now, they’re a gift from you. This is clearly out of our hands.” The girls were born five weeks early. They spent two and a half days in the NICU and came home with me. I don’t really remember that whole first year of their lives! We just were in survival mode. The Grygla Triplets and Twins Probably about four months into it, we were at this family reunion, walking down the street and feeling really good about our lives. The boys were sitting in the wagon, I was babywearing the girls, and I thought, “This is it. This is our family.” And immediately…it was like there was someone standing next to me who said, “Julie, there’s one more. It’s a boy. His name is Jonathan.” My initial response was “No!” But we knew when it was right, and then we couldn’t get pregnant and we had to do fertility again. It was terrifying. I had to have a lot of faith in that voice, that there really was just one. And it was just one, and it was a boy. And so of course we named him Jonathan. I prayed, “Heavenly Father, is this it?” Because my pregnancies were getting harder and harder. And the answer I received was overwhelmingly, “Yes, this is the last baby. Your family is complete. They’re all here.” Julie Bradshaw Grygla How have you had the courage and the faith to do what you’ve done with these children? What has been your strength? Really, it has been having to live by the spirit. There is no other way. We have been through crucible after crucible. The first hurdle I had to overcome was letting go and realizing that I needed a nanny. Then realizing that my kids were just going to be a disaster in church. That was the second hurdle I had to overcome. People started getting up and bearing their testimonies about how “if the Gryglas can get here, then I can get here,” and I’m like, “Okay! Okay, we’ll still come!” Then it was letting go of my house. I like a clean house. And I just had to let go of that because I was spending all of my time cleaning, and none of my happy hours rearing my children, focusing on the things they needed from me. Honestly, prayers, scripture study, any sort of meaningful, spiritual activity totally went by the wayside. But I really did not feel any condemnation from God because I knew that He knew that I was just barely holding it together and that I was praying in my heart. The second that I saw my bed, I felt like, “The heart is willing but the body is weak.” I would just fall into bed and that was it. But in the last few months we have really been through the ringer spiritually, and we realized that God was saying, “It’s time. You are stable enough. You have got to stop just flying by the seat of your pants spiritually and it’s time for you to be purposeful in your study, in your childrearing, in your communion with me because things are just going to get harder with your kids, and you’re not going to make it without me.” It’s a hard conversation to have with your spouse. There was a lot of resistance from both of us because it was going to require growing pains and changes. But we were having some issues with the kids and I said, “David, I don’t have my mother to call and ask her what to do.” And I didn’t really have anybody that I really trusted. So we said, “Ok, we are going to hold each other accountable. We are praying morning and night, we are attending the temple at least once a month, we are reading our scriptures, we are making the Spirit a priority in our home.” Julie and Dave It has wrought miracles. I pray in the morning and I don’t even know which kid is going to float to the surface that day. It’s not the same as having a prayer in my heart. The second I hit my knees, I am coming to the Lord in humility and waiting for him to tell me which one of my kids needs me the most that day and what they need from me. It has been remarkable. I don’t think I’ve yelled at my kids in two weeks. There’s just a different feeling in our house, and I feel my mother near. I know that my mother is teaching in the spirit world. I know that she is busy doing other things, but I also know that there is nothing in this universe that could keep from her from being the ministering angel to her children. Once I stopped with the narrative of, “My mother left me, my mother is not here, I am all alone,” and instead started the narrative of, “My mother is my ministering angel, and if I will listen, she will tell me what I need to do,” everything changed. I don’t feel overwhelmed by motherhood. I feel tired because I’m engaged and mothers are tired. But I don’t feel the crushing inadequacies of being a mother. I don’t feel the loneliness. I feel sustained. I have finally gained a testimony in the last few months of what I’m really doing. Julie and Her Mother Can you tell me a little about what daily life is like with six children under five? Dave and I have coined the term “industrial parenthood.” When we had six kids in diapers, if one kid got their diaper changed, everyone got their diaper changed. If one kid was eating, every kid was eating. If one kid was taking a nap, every kid had to take a nap. And that was just the only way to make it work. People say, “Wow, you guys are efficient!” And we’re like, “We are a machine!” We’ve had to individualize things more the older they get, and that’s where Heavenly Father stepped in and said, “Ok, now that they’re not all babies, now that their personalities are showing through, you’ve really gotta get it together. You’re going to need my help.” So that’s really where the Spirit has come in, but it really is just an assembly line. Everybody wears the same thing. All the boys wear the same thing, all the girls wear the same thing. I do laundry twice a week, and everything gets folded into sets. “I don’t care if that’s not the shirt that you want to wear. That’s the shirt that’s in the slot for Monday. When you can start folding your own clothes, you can wear whatever you want!” That’s basically what my life looks like. The Grygla Family Is there anything else you would like to share? The message that I would want to pass on to mothers who are struggling with their purpose, is that you have to give your life over to a life of consecration. You have to gain a testimony that this really is God’s work and glory and that it could not happen without us. To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, mothers have to exist. And mothers have to teach their children—teach them the gospel, but also teach them to say please and thank you, and to recognize that they’re probably going to fail like 50% of the time, but they will get there. You have to take the long view. It’s part of your temple covenants, to live a life of consecration to the building up of the kingdom—and this is it. This is at the very core. That has been my journey of the last four years of motherhood, trying to arrive at that point where I’m not only okay with it, but I’m a missionary for it. At A Glance Name: Julie Bradshaw Grygla Age: 37 Location: St. George, Utah Marital History: Married at 31 Children: Six children, ages 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, and 10 months Occupation: Former college writing instructor, now stay-at-home mom Schools Attended: San Diego State University (bachelor’s), George Mason University ( master’s), BYU (teaching certificate) Favorite Hymn: Reverently and Meekly Now (185) Website: http://tacotuesdaytriplets.blogspot.com/ Interview Produced by Meredith Marshall Nelson

Anoush Anderson discovered a love for science when she was young, and her curiosity about the workings of the world motivated her to pursue an education and career in the sciences. She recently completed her PhD in Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics. Taking a scientific approach to life, Anoush has felt empowered to try new things and to see what grows. She has been inspired by her Armenian ancestors who took charge of their destiny despite adversity, and has found a connection to her roots through her love of knitting. Finding that God will work with her in her choices, Anoush has learned to be open to new experiences and possibilities. Tell me a little about yourself. I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah. My dad is Armenian and immigrated to the United States when he was about seven years old. His family joined the church in 1893 in Turkey and had suffered a lot of persecution, so when they were able to immigrate as religious refugees they really had no desire to be anywhere other than very close to church headquarters. They moved to Salt Lake because they thought of it as Zion. He lived in Salt Lake most of his life and studied Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at the University of Utah. My mom grew up in Virginia and Georgia and was more or less raised peripheral to the Church. Her childhood was fraught with difficult family situations and poverty, and she saw the Church as a way to escape that. Her father had a fourth grade education so she wasn’t raised in an educated household, and education was something she thought could change her life and help her get out of this negative cycle she saw her family in. She found a way to go to BYU and it made a huge difference in her life trajectory. She moved to Salt Lake after graduating and was an elementary school teacher. She met my father in a singles ward in Salt Lake. I grew up in Salt Lake and Centerville, Utah, and lived there until moving to Virginia for graduate school soon after I was married. Anoush on the UVA Grounds Your heritage is so unique. How do you stay connected to it? I don’t read Armenian and I don’t speak Armenian fluently, so I can’t do a lot of specific research. At the same time a lot of records of the area were destroyed, as happens when people are conquered. But we have a strong tradition of stories in our family. Over and over again we’re reminded of the blessings we’ve received because of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And my grandmother always says “Thank God for the gospel! Thank God for the Church!” and how grateful she is that it keeps us together as a family. It has become such a blessing in her life, especially living in the United States where she feels safe and able to freely worship. I think about the persecution my ancestors suffered for being members of the Church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was, especially in the late 1800’s but probably even now, very much perceived as being an American church. When my family joined the Church they were seen as turning their backs on their heritage, because Armenians have been Christian for so long that it’s their identity. Mormon Armenians talked about themselves as the last to be hired and the first to be fired from a job. It was so difficult to maintain work that the branch got together and decided they needed to start their own kind of business. If they could just work together, themselves, they wouldn’t have to deal with other people hiring them and firing them and deciding if they could eat or provide for their families. I appreciate that story—that ability to take charge of one’s destiny and work under adversity. When did you first discover your interest in science? In seventh grade, half a year of science was required and if you wanted you could take a full year. For some reason I decided to take a full year of science and that class was awesome. We got to do things like dissect frogs and earthworms. I remember acting out the parts of the cell—I was the mitochondria, which was the cool part—and learning how the cell fit together that way. From then on I always took a science class. In high school, I went on a field trip with a bunch of other guys from my physics class to the University of Utah Physics Department. A gentleman from the physics department talked to me and got to know me—he was actually the administrator of a scholarship for women in science at the University of Utah. He really encouraged me to apply for it. Applying for and accepting that scholarship put me on the road to studying science. I don’t know why I gravitate so much towards the sciences except that I like understanding how the world works. That’s what drew me towards Physics, especially mechanics. How does the world work? How do forces function together to create the world that we interact with? I have the same curiosity about biology on a microscopic scale. How does your body work at a cellular level? What is DNA and how does that create the person that you are? How does the human genome create the huge diversity we see in the human race despite it being 99% identical across all people? It’s that curiosity that drives me. Anoush at the Lab, Getting Her Dissertation Ready Did you feel supported and encouraged in your interests? I’ve tried to think about why I am the way I am, why I felt enabled and empowered to study the things I did and I’m not sure, except that my parents both always thought that education was important. My parents did encourage and helped me feel enabled to do whatever I wanted to do. In everyday tasks I didn’t see any gender distinction. I have two younger sisters and there weren’t any boys in my family, so if something was to be done by one of the kids you couldn’t choose one group over the other. So I grew up doing all the things. And I guess I just never thought there was something that I couldn’t do. That is such a gift. It really is, and I don’t know how that stuck. There are definitely choices that I make in my life that are not the same choices my mom would make in my position, for example. But somehow I’m still able to confidently make those choices for myself. And I’ve thought about this a lot. I have worked with the Young Women, and I wish I could figure out how to pass it on. How can I help you, as another person, feel that you can achieve whatever you want? Or at least that you have support to pursue your interests? I don’t like to see people limited by stories—stories from their parents, society, from themselves, or what they think the Church is telling them. What was your undergraduate experience like? My freshman year of college I received a scholarship that placed me in a research lab that was a really good fit. I ended up staying in that research lab throughout my four years at the University of Utah. In that lab I learned what it was like to do science—not just to read science and see what other people have done—to have hypotheses and test them with experiments and to reevaluate your conclusions and to do things that are really hard. I remember one specific experiment I was trying to do required me to dissect zebrafish embryos—they are super small; you have to do it under a microscope—and I was using little insulin syringes as my tools. I was having a really hard time dissecting the embryo from the little yolk of the egg. I was just so frustrated, and it was taking weeks with little progress, and I was not enjoying it. I complained to the post-doc supervising my work, and said “This is just really hard. Things are not usually this hard for me!” He just laughed and said, “Now you know how everyone else feels!” I think this was one of the first times that I failed at something. And that’s important—in learning what research is like, and what science is like, and what life is like. Things are not always going to be easy, but when I figured out how to do it? Yes, I was proud of it. Yes, I was willing and excited to do it. What was your emphasis of study at the University of Utah? I started out studying physics because I was interested in physics and I’d visited the physics department while in high school, but I was also interested in genetics. I went and talked to the biology advisor, and he said “You can’t do genetics with a physics degree” (not true—there is actually a whole field of biophysics). And so I said, well fine—I will just do both! So I received two bachelor degrees. I liked them both enough that I was enjoying my classes. It was kind of funny because my mom would always require us to take a “fun” class every semester, and I was like, “These are fun classes!” Did you go straight to graduate school? That was a tricky decision because I always wanted to go on a mission. And I did have a little bit of a conflict in trying to decide when to go on a mission. I had an interesting experience when I was 20 years old that helped me decide when to serve. I visited Temple Square and sat at the Christus listening to the narration and thinking. In between groups a sister missionary came over and started talking to me. I asked her “How do I know when I should go on a mission?” And she said “Maybe you should go when God wants you to go.” And it was like “Bing!” A lightbulb came on, and I thought “Oh, He might care? You mean that might make a difference? Who knew?” (Laughs.) A series of events in my life led me to know that I needed to finish my degrees first. So I put in my mission papers halfway through my last semester of college and soon after graduating I served in the Washington Kennewick Mission. The last 3-4 months of my mission I had permission to apply to graduate programs. At that point, I didn’t have a mentor to guide me to a university or a good grad program. I had half an hour of extra computer time on P-day. So I googled some things and pretty much thought, “What are some states I’d like to live in? Of these states, which schools have a genetics program?” and I left it at that. I applied for something like 6-9 schools and when I returned home I got interview offers for 5 or 6. Anoush with Her Mission President and His Wife By the time I was almost done with interviews I was seriously dating someone I’d known since high school. We’d been friends the whole time and knew each other quite well. And I was having a hard time making any decisions about our relationship and about graduate school. I really appreciate that Ben has always supported me in whatever I wanted to do. So when it came down to trying to decide which school to choose, he straight up said “You choose. You need to do what’s best for you.” I think he wanted very much to be part of my life, but we weren’t married and we weren’t even engaged, and he wanted me to make the decision without any extra concerns. He wanted me to be very happy with my decision. Once I was able to decide, it seemed that the decisions went together: I wanted to marry Ben and I wanted to go to the University of Virginia. How did the process of making these decisions look and feel to you? I had a lot of anxiety and frustration thinking about the next steps in my life and I was talking to friend on the phone. I’m a very verbal processor, and as I was talking it out, it sort of clicked. “I think these are the two things I want! I think I want to marry Ben and I think I want to go to the University of Virginia.” I told Ben and he was a little like, “Wait a minute—we were talking about you moving across the country, so…can I process this?” (Laughs.) I was like “Sorry, I thought you’d be all on board with this epiphany!” But things just felt calm all of the sudden. I wasn’t anxious anymore, or second-guessing, and things felt comfortable moving forward. And I think that goes a long way, for my personality, in helping me know that Heavenly Father is with me. I hesitate to say that Heavenly Father approves of my choice of graduate school, for example, because I’ve gotten to a point in my life where I really feel like we don’t have right or wrong choices in our life. We’re here to make choices and experience life. And God will be with us in those choices. I’m sure there are any number of places that I could have gone to graduate school that would have been just fine for Ben and I, both. I feel like God is big enough to make all of those things work. And I appreciate being able to make a choice and feel peace that my effort and my offering is acceptable to God, especially because I feel like I’m taking a non-traditional path. I talk to family members who maybe don’t understand the decisions that I’ve made in regards to my education and my career, my passion for science, and other life choices. But I can say this is a decision I made with my husband and with God and I can feel good about that. And I don’t have to worry about what other people say, or think, or wish I had done, or have regrets about my life. I don’t have these regrets because I’ve been able to feel that calmness and reassurance. Anoush and Her Husband Ben In what ways did you see God help make your decisions work? Even though I chose UVA based on my own personal interests and inclination towards the area, it turned out really well for us as a couple. As it turned out there was a place here that Ben was able to work at. It’s hard to get a job in a college town, and it’s hard to get a job when your skill is “I speak Arabic.” But he was able to find a job nearby, which we didn’t necessarily think was going to work out. We felt really guided to this area, to be able to have the opportunities that we’ve had through work, and school, and in the church, and in participating in the ward here in Charlottesville. I think it’s easy to see how things fit together in retrospect. It was the little coincidences, like that Ben’s uncle lives twenty minutes outside of town and they’re happy to interact with us even though they haven’t really been part of his life for the past 25 years. Or that when I randomly decided I might like to live in Virginia, I chose this one university in Virginia to apply to, and the first lab I rotated in had this professor that has a really non-traditional perspective as to the way he runs his lab. He was low-key enough that I felt like I could do what I wanted to do to take care of my home and myself—and also successfully defend a PhD. It feels almost miraculous that I could feel fulfilled in a graduate program and that Ben could find a place to work without having a huge commute. When we came here for grad school I said to him, “You can choose where we live next!” but his job has been fulfilling enough that when I graduated he said he wanted to stay here. What have you learned about yourself and about God in your studies and in the lab? I think science, and knowing that God follows natural laws, gives me permission to have questions and not need immediate answers. Any graduate student will tell you that this is the thrill and bane of their existence—having a question and not being able to find the answer no matter what experiment you perform. Accepting that uncertainty in my academic pursuits gives me permission to have uncertainty in the gospel, without any trouble. I know that’s not the same for everyone, but for me, that’s how my mind deals with uncertainty. That doesn’t mean I just ignore it or leave it alone. Obviously as a scientist you’ll do experiments, think about it, research your question—but it doesn’t make you not believe in science anymore. Or quit science and go do something else. And so for me, that aspect of science has helped me give my gospel learning time and space to grow. Anoush Upon Graduating From UVA with Her PhD. As a scientist, is it exciting to have some questions unanswered? I do think that most of these questions will be answered after this life, and I’m thrilled to have some questions answered. They’re probably not the same questions most people have! There are things I want to know about the creation of this world, and God’s purposes, and how he’s dealing with certain things. I think I have a lot to learn about the Atonement, and I’ve been developing a new understanding about the choices we make: if you must gauge your choices, gauge them based on how effective they were at reaching a goal. That way you can guide your choices because you know what your goal is, without making that judgement of, “You did it wrong.” If I miss my goal, my decision wasn’t effective—and that’s ok. Now I can do something different to course correct. This feels healthier than the right or wrong paradigm I was raised with. I’m more able to make choices and experience life when I give myself that permission, when each choice I make does not have the pressure of being right or wrong. That is something I learned about myself soon after grad school. After I defended my dissertation, my research ended quite abruptly because of a lack of additional funding. And so I found myself without a job, and really not very many options for employment. I had to try very hard to find other things that were healthy and effective to do with my time, to not get too depressed. What do I do with the rest of my life? How am I supposed to choose what to do next if all I know is what I don’t want to do? Well, I’m going to have to try some things. And that has been really eye-opening in helping me become a more peaceful, less anxious and a more growth-minded person. I’ve always tended toward anxiety and I think it’s very helpful to have God say to me “Anoush, whatever you choose will be fine—I can work with that. I just want you to be happy. I don’t want you to feel like I’ve forced you to do something. I don’t want you to feel like I forced you to go to grad school and I don’t want you to feel like I forced you to marry this person. I don’t want you to feel like I forced you to stay in this town or to make these choices about your family. You make those choices and we can work on this together.” And I appreciate that because I haven’t always had this perspective of God. Do you have new goals set for yourself, or are you in that experimental mode right now? When you go to graduate school, usually they are training you to be a mini version of your professor. And since that is not the job I am choosing I get to try new things. Knitting is another passion of mine, and I have worked at a local yarn store here in Charlottesville. The yarn store was a dream job because I pretty much got paid to knit all day, and to talk to people about yarn and knitting. I was able to sort of diversify my experiences enough to say, yes, I still want to do science! I’m still really interested in that type of career. When did you start knitting? Knitting, and crocheting, and sewing, and anything I do with fiber really connects me to my heritage. That was something my grandmother and her sisters did a lot. They interacted with fiber all the time, so much that it’s completely second nature to them. I feel like that’s a connection to my ancestry as well—that I make things. My grandmother’s family in the Middle East tied knotted rugs as a profession. Within the branch they prepared the fiber into yarn and dyed it and designed the charts for the rug patterns. They built the loom and strung it and tied the knots and then took the rugs to sell at the market. For fun at night, my grandma and her sisters would do Armenian needle lace which is a very fine, delicate lace. Anoush and Her Grandmother Demonstrating Armenian Needle Lace at the Living Traditions Festival When I was about seven years old my grandmother taught me to crochet, and I crocheted all the time. I would usually crochet small things like dish cloths, little purses, long strips of nothing, and afghans. When I was sixteen my mom decided I needed to learn how to knit and my aunt taught my sister and I. After that knitting was something I knew how to do, but I still preferred to crochet. In my last area on my mission, my companion was sick and she was trying really hard to get better without having to go home. We spent a lot of time that transfer in the apartment and I started knitting a little more and playing around and teaching myself some new techniques. Elder Uchtdorf has talked about how women have a need to create and it’s part of our divine nature, to create and in that way be like God. I feel very fulfilled in creating in this way. It tones down my anxiety and also helps me to serve others. I love to make things for myself and others and I appreciate the artistic balance it gives my logical, scientific mind. Anoush Modeling Some of Her Knitting Any last words of wisdom you would like to share? If you are curious about a path, try it out. In Alma 32 we read about the fruit of the gospel and the recommendation to try it, or plant the seed—see if it grows, see what it gives you. Try it out! I think it’s so hard when we teach people to have life goals as if they were endpoints. It’s so hard to be open to the possibility of changing your mind. It doesn’t have to mean that you weren’t following the Spirit. It doesn’t have to mean you made a wrong choice. It means different things are right for you in different situations. I admire people who can say, “This is what I used to want, and I honor that, and now I want something different, and I honor that.” I don’t have to be a paleontologist because that is what I wanted to be when I was five. I can change my mind. I think it’s harder for us when we’ve invested a lot in it. My mom can say “When you were a kid you wanted to be a stay at home mom” and I can say you’re right, I did. And I think I changed my mind. And maybe I’ll change my mind again someday but for right now, that’s not what I want. And maybe someday I will. I’m open to all possibilities. At A Glance Name: Anoush Emrazian Anderson Age: 34 Marital History: Married 10 years Occupation: Scientist Schools Attended: University of Utah, B.S. Biology, B.S. Physics, 2006; University of Virginia, PhD Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics, 2016 Languages Spoken at Home: English, Armenian Favorite Hymn: Reverently and Meekly Now Interview Produced by Courtney Scott Buer

Elizabeth Ostler is a theater-maker, activist, and professor living in Brooklyn, New York. She specializes in directing and puppetry, and in coaching others on how to tell their stories. A survivor of childhood abuse and of an abusive marriage, she dedicates her artistic work to advocating for other victims and raising awareness about domestic violence and human trafficking. She has felt the companionship of the Savior throughout her life, and her knowledge of His love and of her inherent value helped her find the courage to walk away from abuse, to work through her trauma, and to shine a light for others. Elizabeth is co-editor of the Mormon Women Project. Listen to this interview at the Mormon Women Project podcast, available on all platforms. Why are you a storyteller, and why do stories matter so much to you? I’ve really been drawn to stories most of my life. I always loved being told stories, and I have early memories of spending time with my grandmother, my Grandma Laura, reading me Hansel and Gretel, and others she made up. I also have early memories of making up stories with my sisters and my cousins, and some of those would be plays that we would torture our family members by having them watch. It’s always been a way in which I have made sense of the world and made meaning out of the world, and that has continued throughout my life. I believe that the shortest distance between you and me is a story. I see this in my own life and as a professional storyteller. If there is a distance between us—I don’t understand you, or you’re an other just because you’re unfamiliar, or even if I’m struggling with you—if I know your story, if I can hold enough space to hear your story or even a portion of your story, it changes me. I find this over and over again that even if I struggle with someone, once I hear their story, I at least can have compassion. I think in a world that’s becoming divisive story is an integral part of us finding our way back to each other. We need to have the courage to tell our stories and the courage to hear other people’s stories. Elizabeth Ostler As a storyteller, and a director, and an editor, you’ve taken on an activist role on behalf of victims of abuse. Would you like to talk about the experiences in your life that led to this? This has been a very deliberate choice in my life, to take on this activist role. The causes that I have, I wouldn’t say I sought out. I would say my life experiences and the things that happened to me led them to become my causes. I wouldn’t have chosen to be an advocate around domestic violence or human trafficking and even now prison reform. Somebody said to me once that you need to leave things better than you found them. I really internalized that, so whenever I come into contact with something, there’s a deep-in-my-soul part of me that wants to leave it better than I found it. There are also a few things I’ve known about myself, since I’ve had any sense of self, and justice in my belly is one of those things. I think I’ve always been an activist, and it’s been my life experiences that have galvanized these particular issues to be the ones I continually write about and create theater about and dialogue about. Elizabeth Specializes in Puppetry and Visual Art, As Well As Theater Directing You, yourself, have been a victim of abuse and domestic violence. Would you like to share how you journeyed from there to being the very powerful advocate that you are now? I do think it is a journey, and I appreciate you using that word because there are things that happen to us in our lives that we don’t have control over and profoundly alter us as humans. When we are empowered enough or courageous enough to do the work we need to do to step out of the victim role, we become survivors, and what I’ve learned in my own work is that we can then transition from survivor to activist. And that is a journey. I grew up in a home that was abusive. There was emotional and psychological abuse within my family that I was growing up in, and then there was sexual abuse from a family member—an uncle—that had a profound effect on my development, on how I valued my worth, and on how I trusted other people. I ended up becoming quite rigid in my thinking and wanting to do everything right, so I wouldn’t get in trouble, as a way to mitigate the abuse I was experiencing. Once I left my home to go to school, I met my now ex-husband, and his love was familiar. I was drawn to somebody who was also verbally and emotionally abusive. It wasn’t alarming to me when he started treating me that way. Did I like it? No! Did I try and stick up for myself? Sure. But at the end of the day, it was familiar. I was able to justify some of the behavior or explain away some of the behavior that someone who hadn’t been abused in the same ways I had wouldn’t have tolerated nor gotten into a relationship. These things don’t happen in a vacuum; that was a really important lesson for me to learn as I began healing. All of these experiences are connected. We dated for two years, we were married for six, and then on our sixth wedding anniversary, I moved into my own apartment. It took almost another two years for us to get divorced. During that marriage, I lost me. I often say: to know me now is not to know me then. I became a shell of a person. One of the things about domestic violence is that you’re trauma bonded, and in a trauma bond you become an extension of your abuser. That was very much true for me. I didn’t have an identity outside of his wants and expectations for me, and I actively tried to squash my own identity and sense of being in order to maintain the relationship, in order to secure what I thought was love, in order to honor the vows we had made together, because I really, genuinely believed that without him I would be nothing. So, I sacrificed myself in order to be connected to him. Elizabeth Ostler How did you find the wisdom and the power to leave? When I look back at that time, in some ways it feels like a book I once read, or a movie I once saw. There’s so much darkness around it. But when I really think back and meditate into it, there were moments of light. Here’s the thing: I didn’t know I was being abused because it was so familiar to me. When we separated, I went to a therapist, because I couldn’t break the trauma bond. I couldn’t stop seeing him even though I wanted to stop seeing him. The therapist said to me, “You realize you’re in an abusive relationship, right?” I was like, “No, I’m not.” And she just looked at me as if to say, “There’s so much work for us to do.” The first thing she had me do was read this book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and within the first ten pages there’s a checklist of twenty questions about your relationship. At the end it says, “If you answered yes to five of them, you may be in an abusive relationship,” and I had answered yes to all but one. I had to be taught that the way I was being treated wasn’t normal, and that I didn’t deserve it. Therapy was a huge part of that; creating art helped me find my identity again; friends and family members were a huge, huge part of that. When I was in the strong pull of that relationship, I was completely isolated. It got so bad that I wasn’t speaking to my parents, which is very normal in a domestic violence relationship. When we separated, I started slowly reaching back out to my parents. At that time, I didn’t trust any of my choices—his words and thoughts and ideology were so in my brain. In fact, domestic violence is on the Stockholm Syndrome scale: you become conditioned to think the way they think. That was part of my work in getting healthy. I had to unhinge my brain from his and identify my own voice. It was really scary and really hard, so I didn’t trust any choices that I wanted to make. My mom said to me once when I was talking to her about this, “Identify the two or three people that you really trust and that you know want the best for you, and only listen to them.” That’s literally what I did. I had two girlfriends and my mom, and whenever I had to make any significant decisions, I just went to them and asked, “What do I do?” And then I just did what they told me to do until I was strong enough, and got enough clarity, and enough distance from him, and enough healing that I could start to think for myself. That probably took me about eighteen months before I could really start hearing my own voice and trusting it. Elizabeth Ostler I’m curious about the role that the church played in all of this for you, and the gospel, because you grew up in a member family. My family was in and out of activity all of my growing up. That was at times hard for me, because I was born with a believing spirit. One of my gifts of the spirit is that I, very early on, gained a testimony that Jesus was the Christ. I can remember at age five having an experience and knowing Jesus was the Christ, and that has never wavered in the decades since. That has been a real gift, even a life-saving gift for me because it has helped me be rooted. All these things happened to me that made me question my value, but knowing that Jesus was the Christ and believing in a loving Heavenly Father helped comfort me during really hard times. Even though my parents and family were in and out of activity, I always wanted to be active, and there were times when I was the only active member. That was a real positive thing for me. I longed for the typical Mormon family—that all went to church together, that had Family Home Evening, that had family prayer study and scripture study. I longed for that, but at the same time, my mom was always willing to have really deep spiritual conversations with me at any age. My mom has been pretty active most of her life. One of the things I love about her is that she is so curious, and she taught me how to be curious. So while the gospel was a real touchstone and a real foundation for me, I still was able to have some critical thinking around it that helped me develop a testimony on my own. I didn’t have a family to lean on, my parents’ testimony to hold onto, or anyone else’s. I really had to develop my own. Believing that God knew me and that Jesus was the Christ was really helpful for me as I navigated being abused as a child and then in my marriage. So even when you felt like you had lost Liz, you didn’t feel like you lost Jesus? Exactly. Very much. Even when I was married, I had started to work through some of my childhood trauma, and I had some real choice moments of feeling Christ heal parts of that. I went to him in prayer and asked for help through the Atonement, and remembered that image of Christ in 3 Nephi asking for the little children to be brought to him. I knew that those children were suffering like I was, and that he could do the same for me that he did for them. That’s so beautiful. He says to bring the children to him, and you brought your child self—your memories and your childhood trauma—to him for healing. And I still do to this day, because this is, for me, a lifelong process as I continue to heal and work through things. Here’s the thing when you’ve experience trauma, particularly childhood trauma: it does impact the rest of your life. There isn’t a magic bullet. There isn’t just the one moment and it is forever fixed. What you learn are tools to do things better, and you learn how to let go of a lot of the pain, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get triggered, and that doesn’t mean that the obstacles don’t still manifest—you just have a better way of handling them. This is still one of my tools: when things get kicked up, when I find a younger part of me that I am aware is still hurting, I take that part of me back and use the Atonement. Elizabeth Ostler Were there any moments in particular that you felt the love of God, or that you felt empowered to reclaim yourself? Yes. Of course there were small moments throughout, but I think of two in particular. At the end of the relationship I was so miserable and I was so lonely, and I caught my ex-husband in a lie. But I didn’t want to have caught him because I was living in a house of cards, and if it was a lie, then it would all come tumbling down. And I wasn’t prepared for that. I remember praying really fervently to believe this lie. I said, “Make this lie a truth.” And I was left hollow. It was one of those moments where I felt a real absence of the spirit, and it was so clear to me that this wasn’t of God, and that there wasn’t any way that He was going to say it was okay. Not even to give me comfort. There was a “No.” That really helped wake me up in a way. I view that as an act of love, as a way of helping me. What would happen previously is that I would seek comfort and I would get comfort, and then I would stay. In this case, I didn’t get any comfort. I got a hollow feeling, and I knew I had to make choices. Then the last time I had contact with my ex-husband led to a real scary moment. I was living in my own place, and he tried to break into my apartment while I was in it. It was terrifying, and the police were called, and he was arrested. It was a rare moment of me standing against him and telling him no. I was living in Salt Lake City at the time, and I went to the courthouse to file a protective order. I didn’t know the resources that were available to me as a victim of domestic violence! There are so many resources available, and it was so—I don’t even know the words. To be able to walk into that courthouse terrified, not knowing what to do, shaking with my police report in my hands—and then a group of people, who were trained to do this, just took care of everything for me. Somebody stayed with me the whole time, and they gave me a victim’s advocate. That allowed me to become empowered. It was a real gift. It was such a transformative moment. The process takes all day, and there was a moment when I was sitting in the waiting room, really overcome with gratitude that these resources were there for me when I was ready for help. I remember thinking, How is this possible? How does this exist? I realized in that moment that these things existed because other women before me had been either killed or maimed—that their advocacy work had led to this. I felt a deep kindred sisterhood with them, and in that moment, I made a vow to them that from that moment on, I would use my voice to bring awareness to domestic violence, that I wasn’t going to be quiet and I wasn’t going to be still any longer. This was my way of showing gratitude to them. It really was a vow that I made with them, and in that moment it felt sanctified. I felt the Spirit so strongly in that vow that it has been very much at the core of my advocacy work. At times when I get frustrated or tired, I remember that vow, and I remember what those women did so that I could have that resource, and it fuels me to continue to do this work. How have you used your art and theater in your advocacy work and in your own healing process? What other means have you used to be an advocate? I was a master at denial in order to stay in the relationship. Willfully in denial. So a lot of my work is about bringing awareness, it’s about helping people who are currently in abusive situations to realize: Oh, when I’m treated like this that’s not normal, or this is actually not my fault. And also to bring awareness to people who are close to someone in an abusive relationship. To help them have more compassion and know what to do. I do it by creating theater pieces that I devise myself—meaning that I write or create with an ensemble—or by directing shows that already exist. I’ve directed a beautiful play by Victoria Nalani Kneubuhl called The Story of Susannah that’s about women in a domestic violence safe house. I’ve directed The Vagina Monologues, and The Triangle Factory Fire. (That one was to bring more awareness to labor trafficking in the clothing industry, because today there are more people enslaved than ever before in recorded history. It’s an $86 billion industry, and this horrifies me.) Elizabeth's Production of The Triangle Factory Fire I’m also a visual artist. Whenever I get really triggered or angry about a social cause or a situation, I often think in terms of visual art in order to work out my emotions. I’ve created a penny sculpture; it’s a female bodice to which I’ve wired pennies that I call “Victimless Crime,” and it’s a commentary on the way we treat prostituted human beings. I think we throw them away like we do pennies. The vast majority of the pennies on the sculpture were pulled from the street as I was going about my life and my friends were going about their lives. I want people to have an awareness and start having a conversation about these things. We can’t be in denial. Elizabeth's Piece, "Victimless Crime" Has it been hard for you to stay in that story so much? When you’re directing these pieces or creating this art, as someone who has been a victim, is it hard for you to be there in that space? How do you continue to heal through that? That’s such a great question. At times it can be exhausting, but it’s not hard. I have done enough mental health work and spiritual work around these issues that it’s not re-traumatizing to go back in. It continues to heal my wounds because it further empowers me. It helps me understand it from different points of view and, yes, I travel into that darkness, but I bring light with me. I’m shining light into the darkness. I don’t feel when I leave it that the darkness has diminished my light; I feel like I’m even brighter for having done it. I think that’s part of the gift of doing the hard work of healing. One of my favorite quotes ever—it maybe needs to be on my headstone, if I have a headstone—is by a trauma specialist named Peter Levine. He said, “Unprocessed trauma is a living hell. Processed trauma is a gift of the gods.” Capital T truth. It’s a gift of the gods. Processing my trauma has helped me get closer to my divine self, and part of that divine self is the ability to stand in dark places and shine light. Elizabeth Ostler There’s been a lot of talk recently in the church about sexual abuse and ecclesiastical roles. What kind of support did you receive or wish you’d received from your local church leaders through all of this? Particularly around my own sexual abuse, I never told an ecclesiastical leader. I was never a child or an adolescent who told. It was a deep, dark secret that didn’t break in my family until I was a young adult. But when I was getting divorced, I went to my Bishop in my family ward who I really admired and liked and trusted, and he was one of the first people that I told about the things that were happening. I was too scared to say divorce. I knew in my heart I wanted to get divorced, but I was too scared to say it to him in particular, a spiritual leader. I wasn’t married in the temple—we were married civilly, so I didn’t have to deal with any of that. But I remember telling him what happened, and he just listened and was so kind and supportive, and then he said, “Well, what are you going to do?” And I wanted to say, “Get divorced,” but I couldn’t. I was too afraid, and that word felt too big for me, so I said, “I don’t know.” He looked at me, and he said, “You do know what you need to do, you just need the courage to do it.” And I said, “I think I have to move and be released from my calling.” I was a Relief Society teacher, which is the best calling in the church, hands down my favorite calling. And he said, “You’re going to be going through a lot of changes in your life, and you need to be somewhere where people know you and love you, and so I’m not releasing you from your calling. You can live wherever, but you’re still one of our Relief Society teachers.” That was such a gift, because he was exactly right. That was really a choice moment for me because I felt supported. This was during that time when I couldn’t trust my own thoughts, so it was very valuable to have somebody say: It’s really about courage here, and you’ll find it. Which reminds me of something my mom had said to me another time. A couple of years before I separated, my ex and I got into a particularly nasty moment, and I went to my mom’s house to get away from him for the rest of the day. It was one of the few times that I admitted to my family anything that was happening. They were acutely aware of the situation but didn’t know how to approach me, because I’d get super defensive. It was one of the rare times when I went to my mom and said, “This isn’t working and I’m in pain.” And she said to me, “What’s the worst thing that could happen to you in this?” And I said, “Getting divorced.” And she said, “No. Losing yourself.” As I was trying to find my own self, these little seeds were getting planted—by my mom, by my bishop, by my therapist—until I could get the courage I needed to really sever it and take ownership of my own life. Elizabeth Recently Served as Young Women President in Her Ward What advice would you give to somebody who has a friend or loved one they perceive to be in an abusive relationship? It’s about being a place of comfort and a place of listening, and not to try to fix it. This is the hardest part of it, because you can’t force somebody out of a relationship that they’re not ready to leave, even though you can see it destroying them, even when you can see that their life is being threatened. There’s this language: “Why doesn’t she just leave?” Because she can’t. For so many reasons. If you do try to yank them out of the relationship, you will be cut off. And then you have no influence. Tell them that they’re loved and walk with them as best you can. Be there, and be a resource so that when they are ready, you are someone who’s safe for them to reach out to because you have proved that you will walk with them. And any moment you can, tell them, “This is not your fault,” and “You don’t deserve this.” That is really powerful language. The other thing to do is to take notes because the person is in it, they’re living through it, but as an outsider, you can say, “On this day, this happened. On this day, bruises here.” Because later, and hopefully there will be a time that they do leave, your record will help them get the legal support that they need. Walk with them, and keep a record. I’m going to steal another moment and speak to anyone who, in reading this, might be able to identify with me in some place—and say to them that this isn’t your fault. Nobody deserves to be treated without dignity. We are all entitled to love, and we are all entitled to dignity, and we are all entitled to peace, and we are all entitled to live as our best selves. Now that doesn’t mean that it’s not hard, and there aren’t struggles, but that’s different when you’re being abused. There’s a big difference between regular life struggles and when you’re being abused. There are so many resources available. There are so many resources available! Just have the courage to reach out to them. You tell your story so well, and I know that your job in life right now is to bring out other people’s stories. But that’s a process—learning how to do it. Were you always so good at this? How do we learn, and why should we? Those are great questions! I would say there was an innate part of me that was drawn to it. I absolutely had to learn what makes for a compelling story: beginnings, middles, and ends. There are so many books out there and TED talks and resources of how to be a good storyteller. To do a little bit of a plug, I hold workshops on how to tell yours story through my company, Life’s Echoes. I’m not the only one who does this. There are other people that can teach you how to tell your story. Elizabeth Ostler I would say if this is important to you, the place to start is to choose to live an authentic life. Find out what your voice is, because here’s the remarkable thing: No one is going to have the same mortal experience that you have had. No one. No one will have the same experiences and understandings and see things the way that you have. So yes, there are thousands and millions of stories out there, but there’s not your story. I think this is the other thing people get daunted by, where they say, “Why do I need to tell my story? This story already exists!” But yours doesn’t. Your story doesn’t exist. You’re the only one that can tell your story. And if you don’t tell your story, it is lost. There’s this beautiful quote by Alex Haley, “Every death is like the burning of a library.” It’s so true! If you don’t tell your story, it never gets told. And we need it. We need to hear each other’s’ stories, so that we can build strong communities and build kinship and belonging. That is an integral part of being disciples of Christ, of building up Zion, and one of our tools is telling our stories. Just start. You may or may not get it right or wrong at the beginning, but you just have to start, and the more you tell the story, the more you’ll learn. Start telling it with your voice, start writing it down, journaling, whatever, but start recording your story, because we need them. We need everybody’s story. At A Glance Name: Elizabeth Ostler Age: 41 Location: Brooklyn, New York Marital History: Divorced Occupation: Theater-Maker, Storyteller-in-Chief at Life's Echoes, and Adjunct Professor Convert to the Church?: Technically no, but spiritually yes Schools Attended: Sarah Lawrence College (BA), and Brooklyn College (MFA) Favorite Hymn: "I Stand All Amazed" and "As Sisters in Zion" Personal Website: http://elizabethostler.com/ Business Website: http://lifesechoes.com/ Interview Produced by Meredith Marshall Nelson

Camille Moffat was driving home late one night when she was hit head-on by a drunk driver. She suffered multiple fractures, a traumatic brain injury, and doctors thought that she might never walk or speak again. However, through a series of miracles, Camille relearned how to walk, and has retained her sense of wit, style, and intelligence. She loves to tell her story about God’s hand in her life and the lessons she has learned about God’s love for all of His children. Camille exudes radiance, hope, and optimism for the future, not only for herself but for all who come into contact with her. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Where did you grow up and where did you go to school? I always tell people I’m from the East Coast, but specifically I was born in Boston and went there for elementary school, then moved to Jersey for middle school, and did high school in Philly. Roughly those timelines. I went out to BYU where I got a degree in the very lucrative field of Art History and Curatorial Studies. But I loved it, because anywhere you travel, you find something you know and recognize, and it makes everything that is broad and expansive feel more intimate. What did you do after graduating from BYU? After BYU, I did a summer program at Cambridge University, which was awesome. I loved living in England. Then I moved to Washington, DC. I lived there a couple of years where I worked for an attorney, and then for a startup nonprofit (which was very, very busy). The busyness of it all made me decide that I wanted to go back to school at some point, and I moved back to Utah to study for the GMAT and GRE. But then I didn’t get into grad school, which was surprising to me honestly. I thought I had decent scores and that I looked good for a number of reasons, and then in addition to that, I had good networking opportunities, but it just didn’t work out. Camille Moffat Could we talk about the grad school disappointment for a little bit? That would be hard. How did you process that? I was surprised, and a little ashamed. I didn’t tell my parents for a week that I didn’t get in, because I didn’t want to disappoint them. And you were living with your parents at the time? Yeah, I had moved out to Utah where they had recently moved. I had never expected to move back home. In fact, when they moved back to Utah, I was like, “See you never, Mom and Dad. My life is perfect here in D.C.” So what brought you to Utah? Why did you feel you had to move? Ultimately, I just felt like I should. The plan was to live with them only a little bit, and then on to school, either out of state or out of country, or just another part of the state. So not getting into grad school was kind of hard. I felt like, “Why did I feel like I needed to move out here? What’s the point?” I thought that maybe I just wasn’t meant to go to grad school, and I had misinterpreted the feeling I had. I thought, well, maybe I’m just not as smart as I thought I was. It changed my self-definition a little bit. But it all worked out in the end. It allowed me to re-evaluate and look at programs I was actually interested in. I think it’s really interesting that you said the disappointment “changed your self-definition,” because I feel that happens to all of us at multiple times in our lives. How would you describe yourself when you were in D.C. versus when you were in Utah? I would describe myself in D.C. as the top of my game socially. I had a fine job, and a lot of really fulfilling social and cultural opportunities. I had a lot of enriching friendships that—to use the familiar term—“filled my bucket.” I never thought I would leave, because things were perfect. I was so fulfilled in every aspect of my life when I was there. Camille Moffat So when you were living in Utah, you didn’t feel like yourself as much, and then you got into a life-changing accident. What happened that night? I don’t remember any of December of 2016 or January 2017. The accident was on December 17th, 2016 at 12:03 in the morning. So it’s true what they say, everything bad happens after midnight. December 17th was a Saturday morning. That Friday I had been at work and then went out with some friends. When I was driving home, I got off the exit to get to my house, on a one-way stretch of road. I was going the correct speed and direction, when a guy in an SUV hit me head on going the wrong way at 100 mph. 100 mph?! He just plowed into me. And he had been going the wrong way for over a mile. How were you found? A lot of people were coming back to Bountiful from the Jazz game on US-89, including a guy who had been working at the game. I don’t want to delve too much into his personal story without talking to him, but he was the one who called 9-1-1. They didn’t know how to immediately respond, because I was within 5 feet of the county line. You can see the sign about 5 feet away from where I hit that says, “Now entering Davis County” as opposed to “Entering Salt Lake County.” The police were wondering who to send. And the gentleman who called said, “I don’t care who you send, send everybody, she’s dying or dead.” The police came and had called Life Flight. Since then I’ve talked with the officer who was at the scene, and he said he almost called Life Flight to tell them to go away, because there was no one to save, I was already dead. Luckily Life Flight made it and took me to the hospital. How did your parents react? About 1:20 in the morning, so an hour and 17 minutes after the accident, my parents got a call. And the fact that they even heard their phones was a total miracle. My dad is a classic workaholic, used to be an executive on Wall Street, always working. But he had left his phone in his office instead of up by him, so they tried to call him first, and he didn’t answer. My mom’s phone was on “Do Not Disturb,” since it was the middle of the night, but the call went through on the first ring. My mom answered it and they immediately got in the car and drove to the hospital. When they got to the hospital, they walked in and asked where I was. My dad said, “Where is Camille? Has she expired? You can tell me, I can handle it.” They took them back into the room where I was, and my parents saw a neck brace on me and several doctors in the room, which told them I was alive. How long were you in the hospital? I spent the next three weeks in the ICU. The average stay in the ICU is 3.3 days and the average survival rate is 50%. I obviously sustained a lot of trauma in the event, and it’s easiest if I do this from head to toe, so bear with me as I do this—I’m getting a lot better at remembering everything. I had several brain bleeds. If you have one brain bleed, it’s not great, but it’s workable, they can manage that. If you have three brain bleeds, it’s a red alert. I had 15 bleeds in my brain. So essentially my skull was full of blood. My little brother is a chemical engineer and he did the math and said that with how fast the gentleman who hit me was going, and how fast I was going, my brain subsequently went 18 Gs, which is faster than an astronaut returning to Earth. People say that an Art History degree can’t get you anywhere, but it took me to space in my mind! My brain injury is called a traumatic brain injury (TBI). There are a couple interesting things about traumatic brain injuries. The harder you get hit, the less likely you are to get headaches. I had suffered from chronic migraines my entire life—I’d get anywhere from 2-8 migraines a month. Neurologists didn’t know why, it was just my fate in life. But now I don’t get headaches anymore, so I’m really excited about that—it’s fantastic. But there are, obviously, negative side effects. My TBI side effects include that my short-term memory’s not as good. Sometimes I forget words. Moving down from my head, I broke my nose in the accident. Additionally, I lost my four front teeth. At the time I had adult braces. It ended up being a good thing I had them on because they kept so many of my teeth in place. We found out on Christmas Day that my intestines were perforated. They had to do two surgeries for that. One on Christmas and then 2 days later they opened me up again. They ended up taking out a foot of my intestines. I think a lot of people know this already, but you have 22 feet of intestines. So if you lose a foot, it’s not a big deal. Now I have this scar that I think is hideous, but my dad says, “Camille, it means you’re alive.” But I had good abs, so I’m vain about that. I broke my right foot but I shattered both ankles. One of the ankle bones was shattered into 50 pieces. There’s no way you can superglue it back together, so they ended up grafting a piece of bone from right above my knee, and that became my new ankle. During 2017, I had 8 surgeries in total. 5 or 6 of those were in the hospital. Camille Moffat That is a lot of physical trauma. What was therapy like? Therapy was amazing. I had never had that sort of therapy before. I had had emotional therapy before, but now I had physical therapy, occupational, and speech therapy. Typically I would do 3.5-4 hours of therapy a day. But I do remember a day where I would do seven hours of therapy in a day. It’s pretty exhausting. Some of my therapy was learning how to navigate things in my wheelchair. They would time me to see how fast I could go around the floor in my wheelchair. Then I learned how to transfer from the wheelchair to the toilet, to the shower, and things like that. One of my dad’s favorite stories about me growing up is that in 10th grade we had to do an assignment for biology where we had the measure our bicep when we were not flexing, measure when we were, and then take the difference and calculate something. But I raised my hand and asked my teacher, “Mr. Del Prado, what do I do if there’s no difference between when I’m not flexing and when I am?” I only mention this to say that as a result of me being in a wheelchair, I had some pretty nice biceps for awhile. I never thought I’d be capable of getting any muscle there. I remember my occupational therapist, Josh, taking me on a couple of field trips outside of the hospital. My first field trip was to Barnes and Noble and I was so excited. He gave me challenges to do like finding books. That challenge alone gave me so much more compassion and empathy. I never would have thought about someone in a wheelchair not being able to see the titles of books on higher shelves very well. It opened my eyes. I left the hospital in two months. They expected me to be in the hospital anywhere from 6-9 months, so getting out in two was amazing. It was miraculous, honestly. They told my parents I would probably never speak coherently again, but science didn’t factor in the fact that I’m a Moffatt, and you cannot get my family to shut up. It’s impossible. We love to talk. They also said I’d probably only get 50-70% of my mental faculties back, if I was lucky. I’d just like everyone to know that I’m still perfectly aware that 2 plus 2 equals 4, and I can spell my name. Camille Moffat You also remembered and spoke in French for a time, right? [Laughs] Oh yeah. In the ICU, there was a time when I refused to listen to or speak English. Everything had to be in French. I had taken about ten years of French growing up, and my dad speaks fluent French. I hadn’t studied French for seven years. But when your head gets knocked around and you start coming back, you want certain things. My dad would have to translate to the doctors what I was saying in French and then translate what they were saying to me. There are only two things I wish: 1) That I had woken up speaking in a British accent permanently, or 2) that I had woke up speaking some kind of unheard-of North Korean dialect. Your parents sound like superstars during all of this. My parents were awesome. They still are awesome. They’ve been supportive through this whole thing. They remodeled the entire first floor of the house so that everything was wheelchair accessible. This was especially helpful since I still had to do a ton of physical therapy outside of the hospital. How did you learn to walk again? I learned to walk in a swimming pool. The reason you learn to walk again in a swimming pool is so that it displaces your body weight. When I was a little girl, I took my first steps at the Sacred Grove, so this time around, I decided to keep on theme and take my first steps outside the pool (and without my boots) on the grounds of Temple Square. I like parallel structure. Camille Moffat Your story is a lot about physical healing, but spiritual healing as well, I’m sure. Can you tell me a little bit about that? I would never want anyone to go through what I had to go through, I just want everyone to know what I know. But I guess that’s not how the refiner’s fire works. Basically, I don’t have faith anymore, I just have knowledge. I know that God is real and so is Jesus Christ. I would not be here without Them. I would not be here without my amazing doctors who have these amazing God-given talents and who didn’t bury their talents in the ground, but further developed them so Christ could bless them with more. I felt a lot of support on both sides of the veil. About two weeks before my accident, my mom had been invited to go to a fireside given by Sister Wendy Nelson, President Nelson’s wife. Sister Nelson talked a lot about how we’re told that we can pray for angels in our lives, but that we can pray specifically for angels by name, and that our ancestors are our angels. My mom said that on the way to the hospital she was praying for specific ancestors to be with me. The veil was very thin in the hospital room, and my parents could feel the presence of God there. They also said that I would openly converse with ancestors, and that there were some very special experiences associated with that. My parents talk about how at the beginning I had no veil. I just was in God’s presence and it was very apparent in what I was saying and what I was doing, and that they could see the veil coming down and how frustrated I would get. So I guess that’s what I mean when I said that I don’t have faith, I have knowledge, because we all have that knowledge, we just can’t remember it. And again, I can’t remember it now, but my parents were able to be there to witness it and tell me. Camille Moffat Thank you for sharing that. What do you think one of the most important things is that you have learned from this experience? Honestly, that God loves us. When I heard those scriptures that say, “God is not a respecter of persons,” I thought, “Okay, I get it. God doesn’t love Mitt Romney any better than me because he’s famous and Mormon. I get it.” But I don’t know why I was so dense. I think everyone else realizes this, but Heavenly Father really does look out for us regardless of how “ordinary” we might be. We all are lost sheep and he does care for all of us and wants all of us to succeed. Don’t get me wrong, I think I’m an awesome person and that everyone should be as obsessed with themselves as I am with myself. But I think we all are amazing, because we are children of our Heavenly Father. And when we know that, that’s pretty empowering. God still loves me, even though He’s aware that I’m a pretty normal person. I just want everyone to feel that way—to know how awesome they are, no matter how “normal” we may be. Nobody is just “normal.” We are divine. I think that’s hard for a lot of us to feel. We can know it intellectually and sing it in “I am a Child of God,” but you can’t force someone feeling that way. They have to come to know for themselves. Exactly. You know, I went to teach Young Women’s in my parents’ ward a couple of weeks ago. And I was really struck by the YW theme and how powerful it is. It talks about all these values we have, and again, to me it circles back to the idea that everything is so simple in the Gospel. Obviously there’s a lot things that seem heavy, but I think that just comes from mankind having an incomplete knowledge as part of this earth life. We’re not omniscient. We don’t have all the knowledge and so our time here doesn’t seem so simple. But the things we do have knowledge of are really simple. God loves us and wants us to be with Him and He’s telling us how to be with Him. Camille Moffat I love that. Thank you. So there were two other themes I wanted to talk with you about. One, the topic of forgiveness—I know you saw the man who hit you and faced him in court. What was the forgiveness process like? You know, I’ve never really been angry with the man who hit me in any way. My parents said that even from the moment they saw me in the hospital I was asking, “Is he okay?” I realize this can sound very self-aggrandizing for me to say that, but I’m just trying to give an accurate account. I honestly have never felt upset with him. He had his agency just like I have my agency, and agency collides sometimes. He made a decision that didn’t need to happen, but it happened. I met him at the sentencing hearing I went to. I didn’t get to talk to him directly, but that makes sense. I did get to see him from behind and his mug shot, but you know, he was a young guy. He was 32 when he hit me, and it’s hard for him, obviously. I can’t imagine what he feels knowing the consequences of his actions and how that’s impacted other people. And regardless of how it’s impacted other people, it’s impacted him in ways that would be really overwhelming and crippling. He’s in prison right now and I hope that while he’s in prison he can gain whatever insights he needs to be a better person and that he can carry those onto other areas of his life. Just like I hope this experience has made me a better person and continues to make me a better person, I hope the same for him. I’ve talked to people who have gone to prison for other things and they’ve talked about the different ways people can either be healed from it or choose not to become a better person, and I hope that he does choose to become a better person. Camille Moffat Do you feel any regret about this experience or what happened? Honestly, I can feel nothing but positive and grateful for the experience that I’ve had. It has brought me so much closer to my family, and my testimony and my self-awareness have grown. In the end, it’s not even a silver lining. It’s like a silver blanket, it’s just everywhere. You know, there’s been so much physical pain, but I don’t feel any emotional pain about it. And I honestly don’t know what it is that has allowed that. Actually, pause, rewind. I do. What would you say has allowed for that emotional healing? I was talking with one of my girlfriends, and she said that she prayed for both my body and my heart to be forgiving. I thought that was such a beautiful sentiment. I don’t think I’d ever prayed for someone’s heart to be forgiving or compassionate in that sense. It’s interesting, but I’m glad you brought this up, because I had never realized that prayer has a tangible effect to it. There were moments even in that last week in the hospital that were so devastatingly difficult. There were times I didn’t know if it was possible. And in those moments I could physically feel prayers reaching out to me. And it sounds insane, I know, but it makes perfect sense. Because if God is a man with a body of flesh and bone and if God is omnipotent, then why couldn’t His power be tangible? More people than I could ever know have prayed for me during this thing. From the kids that I babysit, from my friends, to my family. That massive group effort—or even one particular effort, like my friend who prayed for my heart—got me through so much of the hard stuff. It’s so humbling. This whole experience is so humbling. I don’t know why I am here and alive. But I feel like it goes back to the whole “I’m just a normal person” thing. Honestly, I think every ordinary person can have such a force for good, even with just yourself. Because yes, it’s good that we can reach out to other people, but if we can be a force for good for ourselves and be more Christlike and dwell in His presence, if nothing else, maybe that’s why I’m here. I still don’t know the reasons for why I’m back, but I’m glad I’m here. There’s a lot of cool places I haven’t been to yet, and a lot of architecture and museums to see. And a lot of people to meet and a lot of people who need to meet you. Thank you. I know I am in the very rare few to have such a strong support system, both inside and outside of my family. And it breaks my heart to know there are people who go through things harder than this that don’t have the support system I’ve had. It really motivates me to be a better sister, a better friend, a better coworker. Like I said, I think I’m awesome, but I know I’m not perfect. And there are times when I don’t react as calmly as I could with certain things, like at work, but this has helped me refocus and think about how I can love people more. I thought I had a pretty good handle on that before all this, but there’s always more to learn. For all of us, in so many things. So what are some of the lessons you’ve taken from this experience? What lessons have you learned that will help you live life abundantly? Wow, that’s an excellent question. I’ve just learned a lot about charity. Charity has been my favorite gospel topic for many years now, since it is that pure love of Christ. I think this whole experience has helped me to become more charitable. And again, to understand that we all need to be loved and we all have our agency. We have abundant opportunities to become better people by using our agency in the small things. Just those cliché things you hear—letting someone cut you in your lane in traffic, or sitting next to someone in church who you’d rather sit next to somebody else, those little opportunities where you can use your agency to make someone else’s life better and make your life better because of that. Camille Moffat What are you looking forward to in the future? I’m so excited about everything. I’m looking forward to starting grad school this summer—I am going to do a Master’s in Healthcare Administration at the University of Utah. I’m honestly so excited to learn more about the people who helped me so much. And then, I am so excited, because in two weeks and one day, this girl turns 30 and she’s turning 30 at the Taylor Swift concert in LA! I almost died forever without going to a Taylor Swift concert, and that is not a life I want to leave! That is very exciting! I’m excited about that. For the next two years, I’ll be busy with school, but after that I am planning a trip to Bath, England with a friend of mine. That’s another long-term goal. No real plans, but we have an idea. And if something happens in the meantime and I get incapacitated again, at least I went to the Taylor Swift concert. So there’s lots to look forward to, and then if nothing else happens, I’ve had an awesome life. Which sounds really macabre to say, but you know what I mean? Life’s awesome. Life has been awesome, life continues to be awesome, and the next life is going to be even better. Camille Moffat Is there anything else you’d like to share? Just that there are so many things that have prepared me for this experience. I know that we’re not deists, but God is omniscient, and I think He prepares us for things that will either harm us or help us. Looking back, He gave me opportunities that I didn’t understand that have really prepared me to go through this experience, and I think that’s a wonderful thing. I know that there have been times when I haven’t recognized His hand, before the accident and even since the accident, but sometimes we’re lucky to see how the puzzle pieces come together. Even if I didn’t succeed this remarkably—if I didn’t have the same recovery and success with my health that I’ve had—I’m still so happy. There’s so much to be thankful for. My eternal perspective has grown so much. Things really do just roll off my shoulders much more easily than they would have before, which is awesome. Eternity’s great, I’m sure. Things are good, life is good, our Heavenly Father is good. Some of our moments of refiner’s fire are more visible than others. So I hope people don’t think they have to go through my same experience to have similar or better results. I just happened to have an experience that was tangible and visible. And I know there are billions of people that are going through a refiner’s fire that we can’t see, and I just want us to be charitable and compassionate towards people so we can help each other as we go through those moments, those years, those lifetimes. We’re here to help each other, and it’s easy to forget that. At A Glance Name: Camille Moffat Age: 30 Location: Bountiful, Utah Marital History: Single Occupation: Graduate Student Schools Attended: Brigham Young University, University of Cambridge, University of Utah Favorite Hymn: I don’t have one favorite, but the one that comes to mind right now is Abide with Me ‘Tis Eventide Interview Produced by Megan Armknecht

As a seamstress with a special spot in her heart for the traditional Chilean cueca dresses, Maria Teresa Toro Valenzuela knows how to modify and improve on a good pattern. Having been ‘born of goodly parents,’ Maria Teresa joined the church as a young mother. Threads of love of family, country and the gospel now run through the life that she has tailored for herself by prayerfully and enthusiastically combining the best of her country’s traditions with the teachings of the gospel. This interview was conducted in Spanish. Haz clic aquí para leer la entrevista original en español. What was growing up in Chile like? I just want to say the same words as Nephi did: “I was born of goodly parents”. They were simple people, they were married. I am the third of four children. Our family was pretty normal—my father was in the military and a dentist, my mother was a nurse. They were Catholic and we grew up within Catholic principles. I believed that there was a relationship, a connection with God and I believed that the family was very important. Is family important in the Chilean culture? Yes, we have unity in our families. We are always together; we have meetings together as a family with the grandparents, the nieces and the nephews, with all the family members. We are a loving family, a lot of kisses and hugs. The grandparents are friends of their grandchildren. The children grow up with a special feeling for their grandparents. I see my grandchildren every day. I go daily to my younger grandson’s house. When he comes home from school I take care of him, I cook for him. He is five years old, and my oldest grandchild is 25 years old. They come over every day. I am in touch with them in a regular basis. Maria Teresa and Her Husband How did you meet the missionaries and the Church? It was early in our marriage. The girls were very young. My husband and I felt that something lacked in our family. We didn’t find a suitable (spiritually speaking) place for us. We saw ourselves in that way. Suddenly, my husband invited me to go to a church. There were a lot of churches around our house. However, we used to say that we were “looking for God.“ That’s why one day we went to a Mormon church. It was the day they were having a stake conference. My husband told me that people often called that church the “Mormon Church,” but its real name was “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” I didn’t know anything about that church. Nothing. We came into the building and I told my husband gingerly: “It seems they are very rich people. They are really well dressed and clean.“ I felt a little bit uncomfortable there. I thought they were just very rich people. It was a stake conference in San Bernardo and it was full of people. We got in, anyway. We listened to the talks of some missionaries that came from other countries and from the United States and we ended up spiritually full. We came back home and my husband said to me: ”When you see those missionaries in suit and tie with a tag name, ask them to come visit us at a time when I am home so that we can learn more about their Gospel.” But weren’t you afraid that the members were rich? No, after we heard the talks in that meeting we changed our minds because we felt something different. Now I know that it was the Holy Ghost. The following Tuesday the missionaries came to our house. I was extremely surprised. I asked them: “Who has sent you here?” It had to be the Lord. One of those missionaries was Argentinean and the other was from the United States, Elder Galván and Elder Willmore. Our discussion was a little bit weird. I was very surprised because of the fact that we wanted to meet them and they came so soon. I asked them to come back when my husband was at home and then we had the first discussion about the Gospel. My daughters hid from them. They didn´t want to hear them. They were reluctant because of the changes we were going through. The missionaries asked them if they noticed the change their parents had had. They accepted that it was something different and good. Then they started listening to them too. Maria Teresa with Her Husband and Daughters What did you hear and feel in those meetings that you had not felt before? I felt that I had found a focus, something like guidance. I felt balance and stability in our lives, a firm foundation. From that moment we have never stepped away from the church. Never. We have been members of the Church 30 years now. The day of our baptism our relatives came over to have lunch with us. I told them that we were going to be baptized on that afternoon. They wanted to go with us, so my parents and other members of the family were there. My daughters were baptized in November, some months later. Do you talk about the Church with others? Yes, I do it every time that I have the opportunity. For example, the other day my neighbor didn’t have her keys. I invited her to wait in my house. While I was working at my sewing machine, she was looking through all of her things. Then she asked me, “What do you do on Sundays that you always go out very well dressed and very beautiful?” We started talking about the Church. Months later we invited her to participate in one Family Home Evening and later they were baptized too. How did you start working as a dressmaker? When I was a girl my customers were my little neighbors because they wanted me to dress their dolls, either by machine or by my own hands. My parents wanted me to be a nurse like my mom. However, I didn’t feel good about it. I asked them: “Why can’t I be a dressmaker if I love sewing, sewing and sewing? After that I went to a professional school for women to learn it. For me, my work is more than having a job; it is my vocation. I pray every time before I start. Sometimes you can’t touch the fabric or the scissors without being confident and sure. That’s why I pray and then the inspiration comes. I like the people very much. I like talking to the people. They have to trust me as well because on many occasions they give me very expensive fabrics. I have to have empathy with them, I have to be patient. I have to understand them so that I can feel their feelings and know what they are thinking. Maria Teresa's Grandchildren in Traditional Chilean Outfits What you are saying has to do with the Gospel and the family, doesn’t it? Yes. The skills of communication, patience, really listening to the people are the skills that the missionaries have to develop. You have to treat the people with love. No matter what they may be like. When, for example, one of your customers wants a model that doesn’t fit him or her, you have to explain the fact with love and kindness, with no offenses. Give them your advice with kindness and love. Tell me about the traditional costumes you make. Those traditional costumes have their own history. On September 18th, our country was independent. Before that, we were a country possessed by Spain. Now we had freedom, we were an independent country and all of us were happy. The people of the upper class in that time had robes of plain colors, not flowers. The people who lived in the countryside were the ones who wore the most colorful clothes and flowers. The colored fabric was cheaper. Now, during the celebrations, you can see these cheerful colors in the dresses everywhere. And you can see shoes with high heels, comfortable leather and handkerchiefs to dance “The Cueca,” a traditional dance of Chile. A Dress Made by Maria Teresa, An Example of the Plain-Colored Clothing of the Upper Class Do they still use those dresses for the traditional celebrations? Yes. They use them to celebrate that specific date. We celebrate September 18th in the Church as well. We join together all day long and we eat barbecue. Many of them start the celebration in the morning. The flag is raised with the national anthem, and then we have breakfast, we have lunch, a barbecue. We are all dressed in typical clothes. We sing traditional songs (try looking up “La Consentida”), and we all dance. Two of Maria Teresa's Grandchildren Ready to Dance the Cueca How do you feel as a Mormon, Chilean woman? I heard you are proud of being Chilean. I think it is more than pride. It is joy. The feeling is love. Love for your country because it is the place where you were born. Chile, geographically speaking, is a long, thin straw that the hymn says is “bathed by the sea,” and there is the mountain range that is like a standard. When one becomes a member of the Church and manages to understand the teachings a little, step by step, many traditions are perhaps left behind. Sometimes there are traditions that are against what the Father wants, such as ”Machismo,” which is when only the man makes all the decisions in the family. We immediately found our identity in the church and we know what the Savior wants us to be. We learned to be very happy with what we have to live, and we are very satisfied and also are seeking for excellence in everything we do. It is what we often want to tell our friends and all the people around us. They ask us, “Why are you always happy? Today is not a good day to be happy.” Or, “You have a lot of problems. Why are you smiling?” We have hope and we are sure that as long as we live the principles and commandments, we will always have the light and we will have blessing from our Heavenly Father. Little by little in this small period of probation, taking into account all the blessings that He gives us, we are very grateful for the gospel. We can be happy even with the pains and with the difficult things we have to go through. We have tremors and earthquakes all the time but we know that this is our country. We get up, and we support the people a lot. Have you found traditions according to the principles of the Church? Yes, you can create new traditions in your life. You can make your own traditions. Some of them are very strong, for example, the family and the relationship with your relatives. They may not go to the church, but they live correct principles. We knew that these principles were good before we joined the Church, but we did not identify them as “divine principles.” Nowadays the family is being destroyed in the whole world. The Church strengthens that relationship, that Chilean tradition. Maria Teresa Toro Valenzuela What do you want to say to your sisters who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint? First of all, I want them to know the Church is true. They can know it by themselves whenever they want. The doors of the Church are always open for them. Only by attending the Church will they be able to have a testimony. They will find good influences there for their children. When we joined the Church our daughters were teenagers. I felt I didn’t have experience at all. The Church has helped me a lot. In the Relief Society we learn how to be self reliant. It gives us tools to live. To the sisters that are members of the Church: please don´t go away from it. To those women that know the Church only by its name I invite them to join. At A Glance Name: Maria Teresa Toro Valenzuela Age: 73 years old Location: Santiago, Chile Marital History: Married to Alfonso Miranda from 1970-2014, now a widow Children: Three grown daughters Occupation: Dressmaker Convert to Church: August, 26 1988 Schools Attended: Maria Auxiliadora Catholics school in Chile Language Spoken at Home: Spanish Favorite Hymn: Praise to the Man Interview Produced by Jenny Willmore, with assistance from Noelia Lobo

Dana Willard is the blogger, designer, and sewist behind MadeEveryday. She is well-known in the sewing community for fun fabrics and quick and easy tutorials. When the COVID-19 quarantine was announced in the United States, many sewists contacted Dana for guidance in making fabric face masks to stem the spread of the virus. The make-a-face-mask sewing idea gained traction almost instantly through social media. How did it start for you? I did make some masks, very easy. But I had reservations. I contacted three different doctors I know and asked if these will actually be used. One said no, they cannot replace the N95 masks used in a medical facility. Another said they could be used over the top of the N95 masks, so those masks can be used throughout the day with an extra layer over it. Another doctor friend said that these could be used in his clinic, so that real surgical masks could be saved for COVID-19 patients. I also didn’t know where we would send our masks once they were made. Do we contact our local hospital? Also, are they sanitary? How do they know if someone making them isn’t sick themselves? It could add another layer of difficulty if they need to be washed once the masks are given to hospitals. As a sewing community, people have such awesome intentions and want to help. I was not trying to downplay that. I just had a lot of questions and no solid answers. If the fabric masks really can be used, then yes, I would love to help with that. What I didn’t want to happen is we panic-sew, and sew up a storm, and then they just sit in a pile. You still posted a tutorial with measurements for cutting fabric within a couple of days. How did you overcome your personal reservations about this whole idea? I kind of re-thought the whole situation and decided, if it calms your stress level to sew something like this, then it’s a win. Or if it makes you touch your face less when you have to go to the store, then it’s a win. Or if it makes a new mama, in the labor and delivery department who just delivered a baby, feel better when she wears it, then it’s a win. I got the sweetest email from a NICU nurse in California asking if she could buy some masks from me, because she doesn’t know how to sew, and their labor/delivery staff and patients are in need. Oh my goodness! No, they can’t buy a mask from me, but I would love to make them some! It made me so happy to have someone to make them for. Seriously, I was excited to wake up the next morning and get started on it, knowing that they would go directly to someone in need and using all the crazy fabric prints I could. Dana Willard wearing a COVID Mask Do you have a lot of people asking you to make masks for them, either to donate or to buy? How do you handle that kind of demand on your time and energy? I can’t physically make masks for all who have reached out to me. I’m also not organizing a group to sew masks or accepting donated masks. But it feels really awesome to make and give to others! So I did do a couple of things: I created a one-page free downloadable pattern for anyone who would like to sew masks for themselves, for friends, or to donate to support centers. Print it, share it with friends, pass it around. This is only meant to help those who want to help, and to offer a concise pattern for sewing. I also set up an Instagram post as a virtual bulletin board to connect the needs and the suppliers together. If someone needs masks, they could leave comments explaining their needs. Makers who want to give could find someone in those comments, and coordinate directly with them for quantities and shipping. It got over 400 comments of people asking and responding. I also encourage people to check with their local support centers before sewing large quantities of masks, to confirm they will accept donations. Check with friends in the medical community. Hospitals and care centers are coming out with their own guidelines and recommendations for people who want to make and donate. What is your background that got you into creating sewing projects and providing tutorials? I learned to sew when I was about ten years old from my mom and my grandma. I loved to make clothing – simple elastic waistband shorts, pants, skirts, scrunchies, bags, all that kind of stuff. I sewed probably through high school, and even a little bit after college. But then, you know, life gets busy and I probably didn’t pick up sewing again until I started having kids, because then it’s so fun to make things out of tiny bits of fabric and you can usually get it done pretty fast. What made me excited about sewing again was the concept of deconstructing clothing and figuring out how it’s put together. As I grew up, I used patterns from big fabric shops like McCall’s, Butterick. I always wondered, can I tweak this? Is that going to work out okay? For my brother’s wedding, Lucy, my oldest, needed a little outfit in the colors. She was just one. I thought I’d make her the exact shade of this little tank top to go with a skirt. I took apart a shirt that she had and started figuring out things like the straps – it was like a puzzle going backwards. What did they sew first? What did they sew last? I used some of her clothing as pattern pieces to draw new patterns. I definitely do not have a background in pattern drafting. I sell sewing patterns, but I still consider myself a student of that. I feel like I am always learning as I’m making patterns and sharing with other people. I went to BYU and have a degree in broadcast communications. There have been times I’ve looked back and wished I’d gotten a degree in graphic design, or learned true pattern drafting and things like that. But I don’t know. Sometimes I think my life is like a ball where it’s bouncing in different places, and at times it might feel a little arbitrary or unconnected. But often it will bounce back into a similar area. The fact is that I have a broadcasting degree, and I worked in the film industry for a while. When I left it and decided to be a stay at home mom, I didn’t know if I would use that skill set again. Here we are, ten years later, and now I do a YouTube channel. So it’s interesting to see, sometimes the things that you end up doing in life maybe aren’t even available. I look back – blogging, YouTube-ing – that wasn’t something you could major in. So I think of that, even with my own children – what things are they going to be doing that might not even exist right now. I think that’s an exciting part of life. Technology and ideas are always changing. Dana Willard Recording a Youtube Video What were your steps into blogging and creating tutorials? Your degree provided a really good base for that. I look back at the things I studied in school. I had to take a lot of writing classes and I love writing. It’s a really fun part of what I do, especially the style of writing you can do on a blog. It can be very informal, it can have funny moments, it’s a lot more casual and not as technical. Another thing I’ve grown to love is photography, which is very applicable to what I studied. In my broadcasting classes, we studied lighting a lot and composition and things like that. I’m a self-taught photographer in a way. Those two things married together is what I love about blogging. When I try to describe in one word what I do professionally, I decided I am a designer, which probably sounds funny to people who have followed me for forever. They might think, no, you’re a sewer, or you’re a teacher. But deep down, I feel like I sew and make things so that I can display them in a certain way – take a fun photo of it with a fun backdrop and turn it into a magazine style. So that’s truly what I love. Even with my YouTube channel – I really wanted my channel to not just be a teaching vehicle, but to be really fun looking and pretty, almost like a cooking show. I wanted it to be high quality. So to me, sewing is the skill set that I have that I can teach people, but it’s the vehicle to do these other things that I really enjoy. With sewing in general, it is sometimes looked down on as a female-only, housekeeping drudgery. I had that opinion for a long time, hated it because I wanted to be outside with my brothers doing Scouts. How would you respond to that stereotype? That’s an interesting question. I think we are in a different space socially about gender and the way we view people. Anyone can be and do anything they want now. Not that I ever felt like I could or couldn’t, but I look at my mom – she was born in 1950 – for her, sewing was like you just described. It was utility. She had six children, there were no retail stores that we have now like Target, so she spent a lot of time sewing clothing for us because it was a necessity. She doesn’t love sewing very much, and she’d be fine with me saying that. She’s said to me, “I can’t believe you enjoy sewing so much. I think it is a chore and a pain.” Part of that maybe is the way she grew up around it. But maybe that’s just her personality too – it’s not something that brings her joy in the same way that she loves cooking. We all have different talents and interests. But nowadays, it is totally cool and normal if a guy wants to be someone who sews and a female doesn’t want to sew. In fact, I follow a fair amount of Instagram people who are men quilters and garment sewers. I was a big fan of the Project Runway show, which is half men, half women. I think sewing in general has turned into more of an art rather than a necessity. My mom did it as a way to save money. Now, sometimes it’s even more expensive to sew your own things. It doesn’t have to be, but in some instances, you could spend more because it’s fun, it’s an art. Is the art aspect of it how you got into designing fabric lines? As with anything, you do something for awhile, and then you are interested in finding what’s next. I’ve been blogging since 2008 but not as regularly as I used to. I was creating graphics to go along with my photos and I decided I wanted to learn Adobe Illustrator, which is one of the programs that graphic designers use for fabric. I took an online class and learned some of the basics, and created some fabric designs. I really like minimalist, simple things. Before I started designing, I shied away from it because I always thought, “All I really like is stripes and polka dots. Who’s going to want to pay me to design stripes?” But the more I deconstructed things that I like, I realized that there were fabric designs that I liked that weren’t just stripes. You can look at a hand-drawn character or animal that is turned into a simple stripe or a simple repeat, something like that. It presented a fun challenge to me that I wanted to tackle. I approached a fabric company and it was a shot in the dark. I did a few fabric collections with them. Later, I contacted a different fabric company that I felt was more my modern minimalist style. I’m on my third or fourth collection with them. It’s a really fun process. My business is made up of a bunch of different elements – blogging, YouTube, selling PDF patterns, designing fabric. All of the different pieces are what help make my income and keep my creative interest. Sometimes the fabric can take a lot of time when I’m doing a collection – it can be about a month of designing, back and forth with the company. It’s not the most monetarily-driven part of my business, but I find it to be one of the most fun parts. It’s just so creative. When you see the fabric printed and watch total strangers sewing things with it, it’s another part of the creation process. I just created something, someone took that thing and created it into something else. It takes on this different life. It’s an evolutionary collaboration with people down the road that you don’t even know. I think that’s really cool. Dana Willard Designing I like that – you’re collaborating across the internet. You design fabric X and I make item Y that you hadn’t even thought of. So it’s collaboration and connection. I’ve really found joy from the connection with people, mostly women – I’m aware that’s mostly who follows me – this connection with women around the world. It is such a boost of joy, with the comments that people will send in. I want this to come across in a humble way – when people have sent me messages, I’ve gotten one that said, “My mother passed away this year and I was in a really dark place and really depressed, didn’t know what to do. I stumbled on your Youtube channel and started sewing.” Those comments are so touching. We’re all helping each other in different ways. For me, I will go on a cooking site – someone loves cooking and is sharing their recipes, that touches me. When I’m in a busy spot in my day and I need a dinner recipe, I’m so thankful that someone is out there teaching me that skill set. I just love how much blogs, Youtube, all these different technologies are able to connect us worldwide in ways that we couldn’t have before. We all, deep down, have the same things we are hoping to do in our day, the same loves, the same problems that we’re hoping to overcome. It’s really cool also when someone leaves a comment – I’m in Ghana, or hello from the Philippines, or India, places that I never would have imagined. As children of God, as we truly call each other brothers and sisters, I love this connection through what I’m able to do. It’s really neat. What does this mean to you – all of your creative things – how does this factor into your faith? How does this factor into your relationship with our Heavenly Parents? How do you connect with your faith and your creativity? That’s a hard question because I don’t want to make what I’m doing into something bigger than maybe it is. I’m not thinking about that on a daily basis, as I sew. I do think that creating in general – I always go back to this talk by Elder Uchtdorf – you try not to play favorites, but he’s really awesome. He has a talk called “Happiness, Your Heritage” – it’s from 2008 – that’s really interesting. That’s when I started my blog! “The desire to create is one of the deepest yearnings of the human soul. No matter our talents, education, backgrounds, or abilities, we each have an inherent wish to create something that did not exist before. Everyone can create. You don’t need money, position, or influence in order to create something of substance or beauty” (Uchtdorf, October 2008). I love that, and I shared it in a creative book I was profiled in. It speaks to the human soul regardless of what religion you are, or what gender you are, or what race you are. Yes, I think there’s something in us that we just want to create and make stuff. When I feel like I’m happy in my day-to-day life, it’s often when I’ve made something, or I’ve been productive using my hands. Sometimes people think, “Well, I’m not creative. I don’t like to sew, I’m not an artist.” It’s easy to feel like that’s not my skillset and I totally get that. I’m not saying every person has to be an artist. But we are all creators in different ways. There’s a woman in my ward who is so great at organization. She’s on top of the dinner chart and she’s very organized with how she shops at the store. This is something I am not good at. Not saying that I can’t improve, but I think we are all creators of different sorts in our families, in our communities, in our callings. It’s like Elder Uchtdorf said – it’s a yearning of our human soul. I think it’s maybe an inherent part of our spirits and what brings us happiness. Dana Willard In Relief Society, a focus in ministering is building friendships. We’re trying to build common ground and get to know people. If you have a thing that you’re all working around – for example, the blog is sewing – you build camaraderie and community. For sure. Some of my favorite activities in Relief Society have been when we’ve gotten together and shared some crafts. I think when you’re together creating, and you’re just sitting there doing things, I love the conversation that comes up. I am a person that is kind of fidgety, I always need to be doing stuff. I think that’s just a fun time to really bond with sisters or with family. Making something together is just a great experience. That goes back to the Elder Uchtdorf quote – that it’s inherent within us to create, regardless of what it is. I agree. He has another talk called “Come Join with us”– I love when he talks about how there’s room for everyone at church: “Come and add your talents, gifts, and energies to ours. We will all become better as a result”(Uchtdorf, October 2013) I love that too, because people may be in the margins or feel like they’re different, or maybe they don’t see eye to eye with what we think of as the Mormon mold. We want you here and we need all different skill sets and all different talents. Heavenly Father loves each of us and created each of us. There’s always a place for you here. I think that message is a wonderful one to hear from the top, from our leaders. At A Glance Name: Dana Willard Age: 43 Marital Status: Married Children: 3: daughter (14), son (12), and daughter (8) Occupation: Designer, Youtuber, Teacher Convert?: Born in the church Schools Attended: BYU - BA Communications Website: https://www.madeeveryday.com/ Interview Produced By: Trina Caudle

Miyamoto Jensen came home from her mission depressed and anxious. She found healing and purpose in doing her family genealogy. Her work as a professional genealogist has informed how she thinks about the gospel, family, race, and trauma. You are a family historian and genealogist. How did you get started in that field of work? I first got really interested in family history when I finished serving a mission for the Church in the Japan Tokyo Mission. I noticed how a lot of Japanese people were so dedicated to their ancestors. They showed reverence and love to them by worshipping them. They brought food to them at their graves and participated in other ceremonial acts. My mom is part Japanese, so seeing that in person helped me realize that my ancestors did similar things. While we don’t believe in bringing food to our ancestors’ graves here in America or even in our religion, seeing that outward devotion was very heart turning. While on my mission, I struggled a lot with depression and anxiety. It got to the point that I decided to go home at my 7.5 month mark. When I arrived home, I went to therapy right away. My therapist helped walk me through everything. For a whole month, I went to the temple every single day. I know I needed that peace and serenity as I tried to figure out life. Questions ran through my head, “What’s going on? How can I heal? When am I going back on my mission?” After being in the temple for a month and going to therapy, I decided to become a temple worker. I served as a temple worker for several months. A few months later I had to make the decision about if I was going back on my mission. The answer was no. That was from God. It was devastating for me. I worried about what everyone else would think. As I struggled coming to that decision, I found so much joy in doing family history work. I saw how wonderful the experiences were for other people when they did temple work for their ancestors. I thought, “I want a piece of that. I want to have that for myself.” I called my grandma and she asked me to meet her at the family history center. We sat down and she pulled up FamilySearch. She said, “This is FamilySearch and this is the family tree.” She walked me through how to find names and records and how to verify information. Doing family history carried me through that very difficult time and ultimately helped me to heal from my circumstantial depression and anxiety. I’ve been hooked ever since then. I knew family history is what I wanted to do. I realized I was good at it and wanted to be better. I also realized I could make a living off of this while also being a mother and wife. Knowing this career path would make that balance possible made it more appealing. I recognized the healing power of family history work and the temporal blessings that come from it: providing for my family, having a balance, and finding joy. Miya Jensen on Her Mission You mentioned that you have Japanese heritage. What was it like growing up with a multiethnic background? I grew up in Laie, Hawaii. Growing up multiethnic is normal there. Everybody is multiethnic. It was common to have a mom of one race and a dad of another. I grew up thinking this was how the world worked and how everyone was. It wasn’t until I moved to the continental United States to go to BYU-Provo that I recognized what it meant to be multiethnic outside of my comfort zone and the background of my upbringing. It was a shock to me. I didn’t realize how many people didn’t understand or know things about my culture. Hearing people ignorantly say negative things about my culture was and still is really hard for me. It is such a beautiful thing to be more than one race. It means that my identity covers a lot of the world. That brings much joy to me. I realized that my ancestors had to all come together in order to make me. That’s the only way I could be here and I’m so glad their lives came together to make that possible. Understanding my ancestors’ backgrounds is deeply fulfilling. In Japan, my ancestors experienced struggles so they moved to Hawaii to work. Whereas, my Hawaiian ancestors were already struggling, but they found joy in striving to reconstruct themselves, remember who they were, and bring back to their culture things that were erased in the past. There’s just so much resilience in that and it has all been passed down to me. All in all, it’s wonderful to know these stories from many different parts of the world that make up who I am. Resilience has been passed down to me and is going to be passed to the future as well. Knowing this has fueled me in my work to understand not just one specific area, but to focus on the whole Pacific Islands and even parts of Asia. Understanding these cultures is empowering. Growing up multiethnic has brought me a lot more peace and understanding for other people and cultures. Miya Jensen How do you approach learning about someone from a different background and how might someone actively learn about a culture that is different from their own? Make the choice to be antiracist when you are trying to understand another person’s background. There is a difference between being antiracist and being ignorant. Choose to step outside of ignorance and become active in being antiracist. Take the time to learn about another culture. Sit down with people who are different than you. Go to another culture’s events and walk around exposing yourself to the many different roles that ethic people have taken upon themselves. For example, my husband and I are planning to take our son to different areas of Utah to help him better understand the diversity within our community. We want to expose him to arts, music, and the sciences from a diverse set of perspectives found in our surrounding communities. Meeting and learning directly from those communities helps break down incorrect stereotypes. Let people share their differences with you. Be open. Come from a place of love. When people know you love them, they will be willing to talk to you and show you what they see and experience. I think coming across with love is the most important thing. You’ll make mistakes. Everybody does. No one is perfect. Create such a good bond with people that are different from you that they can tell you when something you said made them uncomfortable or when something difficult has happened and affected them. You may not understand it, but choose to be there. Be open and honest. If people did that, I feel like there would be so much more understanding and peace in our country and in our world. People don’t want to be labeled as racist. No one wants to be called that especially since it’s such a hot topic right now. Being active in being antiracist is something all of us can do. Because it is uncomfortable, we have to bring these things up and talk about it. These conversations will lead to change. Recently on social media, you have also been talking about multigenerational trauma. What is it and what role does family history play in healing that abuse and trauma? Generational trauma is an uncomfortable topic for many people, but it’s something that needs to be brought to the light. Generational trauma is trauma that has been passed down from one generation to another. That trauma comes from many different experiences and can be categorized in multiple ways. Intimate trauma is trauma within a family unity. Bystander trauma is a result of witnessing something very terrible. Historical trauma is where a collective group of people experience a historical event that traumatized them. Generational trauma can happen to everybody, not just minority groups. There’s trauma in alcoholism, in sexual abuse, in drug addictions, and so many other big and terrible things. The side effects include depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, obesity, heart disease, cancer, and many other chronic illnesses and disorders. Generational shame goes hand in hand with this trauma. In my family history research, I’ve seen that every family has something that has happened or is going on that can lead to generational trauma or shame. I’ve been asked if I believe that many people are sick today because of generational trauma. I’ve thought about that a lot because today, everyone is struggling with so many different things. Is it that back in the day that no one struggled or is it because no one talked about it so we don’t have that data from the past? I don’t know. But I do know that everyone needs healing and family history can be a means for helping someone heal. When I look at my own family right now, I can see that some things are just messed up. These things are difficult to talk about. That’s where the shame comes in. No one wants to talk about it. If you did talk about it, that is shameful. But then at the same time not talking about it is shameful. It’s just shame, period. Looking at my family, I ask, “Where did this start? How did it happen?” When I look closely at my family history I can see where it started and began to be passed down. The pattern keeps going and going. The real healing begins as we try to understand where these issues began and where they are now in our families. That’s where self-awareness comes in and where we can choose to stop the cycle and stop passing down generational trauma and shame. Instead, let’s pass down generational healing and wholeness. Identifying those things is a good step. There is healing, but that can only come after the problem is identified. Individuals may be too embarrassed to talk about the problems that come up or the problem may be too heavy. That’s where we need the support. If you need to, go to therapy and talk with a professional. There are many support groups out there to help people. This is all meant to heal. For some people these topics are very painful to bring up. Overall, it is meant to be a means to finding peace to heal you, heal the future, and heal your ancestors as well. Miya Jensen and Her Family Where does someone start with using family history as a tool for healing? Start by identifying the culture behind talking about these things. In some cultures, it is extremely taboo to bring up these types of sensitive issues. You have to recognize that it’s ok to challenge the culture. It’s scary and it’s not easy. I get flak from my family. When I try to explain that my actions are trying to help, someone may tell me, “You can’t do this. It is not ok.” You have to understand that this might happen, but you have to accept it. It’s easier said than done and the experience will be different for everybody. Find someone who can help you with that, an ally. That can be someone in your family or a friend. I like having someone outside of the situation to be my support. Someone who is unbiased and can help me navigate what is going on. Having that support can really help. That support can also take the form of a professional therapist. I also recommend that you read up on these problems and do some research from credible sources to help you understand these problems and the nature of these issues. Those are great first steps to help move forward with understanding and healing in generational trauma. Miya Jensen and Her Husband, Shad Jensen Why do you find it so important to bring these things to light and share that truth? I feel so strongly about it because I see it in my own family. I don’t want to see trauma passed down in my family. I don’t know if I can stop it by speaking up about it. It makes me sad. These are things that can be fixed now. They are preventable from being continued on. I come from a family of hard headed, strong willed people. That’s who I am too. If I can still speak up about it I will. My hope is that someday some specific people in my family will listen and understand. More importantly I know how powerful it is to share this type of information and to share our stories. People are looking for relatability. It’s a human need. People are trying to understand what the heck is going on. If me speaking up means someone is finally putting a name to what they’re experiencing then that is what I hope to accomplish. Being able to identify this shame and trauma is part of healing. I speak up to hopefully help my family and myself to heal more, and be more open and to help others. Do you have one piece of advice you would give to someone who wants to connect with their family in general? Where do you start with family history? Be open to whatever you find. Your idea of what your family is will most likely be challenged. Be ok with that and understand that you will find surprises. These surprises may either make you want to jump up and cheer or bring you down to the floor. That is ok. There is nothing wrong with you if any of those things happen where it’s just a shock or if it’s more than what you were anticipating. Be open. Be realistic. Be excited. Be understanding.If you want to get into research, start by going onto FamilySearch.org. Pick a concise and specific research objective. I go in and say, “I want to find the birth date and place of my great-great-grandma Emma.” Write your objective and go back to it, so you won’t go on a wild goose chase finding wonderful things that will send you searching for other objectives. I’m hopeful that there will be more Polynesians and Pacific Islanders that come into family history work. We need them. When I came into the genealogy industry, I knew I would be a pioneer making the first steps with Polynesian genealogy. Sometimes it’s difficult to keep going, but I do because I know there will be more people along the way who are doing this work and following my example. I invite any and all to hop on board. It really is a wonderful place and wonderful group of people to be a part of. Miya Jensen Is there anything else you want to add? Knowing your story, knowing where you come from can give you what you’ve always been looking for which is your self-identity and self-confidence. In the Pacific Islands, there are a lot of oral traditions and oral genealogies. There’s been this assumption for the past century or so that oral traditions are not credible and they don’t bring any sort of validity to a culture. This idea is completely false. I want to say that now and boldly. Because we have oral traditions, because we have oral genealogies, we can and we must do our family history work in the Pacific Islands and in any other culture around the world that does oral genealogies. Every culture is wonderful and every family looks different. There is nothing wrong with that. Now that I do this professionally, I better understand that families look different and that is a beautiful thing. They are meant to. There is no one specific way that is correct. I want to help people see that families look a lot different than what we understand here in the west. These differences need to be celebrated more. They are beautiful and wonderful. God is found in every culture. I have seen Him in every single family that I’ve looked into. He truly does love all of His children. He really does. When He says all, all means all. Again, I know that He is aware of everyone. Everyone who has ever been born, everyone who is here, and whoever will come. He is aware of every single person and loves every single family. At A Glance Name: Miyamoto Loretta Jensen Age: 27 Location: Provo, UT Marital history: Married to Shad Robert Jensen of Marsing, Owyhee, Idaho on November 13, 2015 in the Laie Hawaii Temple Children: One boy; 3.5 years old Occupation: Professional Genealogist Convert?: Born in the covenant Schools attended: Brigham Young University - Provo (BA Family History & Genealogy - Polynesian Emphasis) Languages spoken in the home: English; Hawaiian Favorite Hymn: I Stand All Amazed Social: @thepolynesiangenealogist Website: www.thepolynesiangenealogist.com Interview Produced By: Anne Leishman Merrell